AIM-120 not tracking in some cases

[l-Slider-l]

hello, there is currently a strange bug with the AMRAAM where in some cases it does not track even when having the target locked in STT the whole time to support the missile. the missile goes stupid right after fireing it. 

i hope that this bug gets fixed soon, because it completely ruins BVR combat.

amraam_f18_test.trkTacview-20210201-205450-DCS.zip.acmi

[Nightstorm]

While it stinks that this bug appears to be present, at least I know it wasn't just me and my install.  All of the sudden my AIM-120C's won't track anything in TWS or in RWS with a lock.  They just go stupid.  In another thread it's been pointed out that the issue may be related to their anti-counter measures not working.  That would explain why in a short test I took off and shot down my AWACS and a civilian jet with no trouble.  They didn't employ CM.  I used to be able to track multiple targets in TWS mode and ripple fire AMRAAMs at them with a high degree of success.  Now they don't seem to work at all.

[Taz1004]

+1.  Happens at least once a mission.

[Hodo]

On 2/5/2021 at 4:33 PM, l-Slider-l said:

hello, there is currently a strange bug with the AMRAAM where in some cases it does not track even when having the target locked in STT the whole time to support the missile. the missile goes stupid right after fireing it. 

i hope that this bug gets fixed soon, because it completely ruins BVR combat.

amraam_f18_test.trk 39.13 kB · 3 downloads Tacview-20210201-205450-DCS.zip.acmi 69.67 kB · 7 downloads

Not just Aim-120s.

Aim-54s

R-77s.

And the SD-10 

All have the same issue.

 

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I run air to air training for my units two F-18 squadrons. About 6 months ago I ran about 150 engagements at different altitudes and distances to develop a timeline for us to use for our A2A engagements, so I know how a 120 used to operate. 
 

I can tell you with absolutely certainty they are functioning different from what we have seen in the past. It seems as if missile will cruise over contacts it would have tracked and pitbulled on in the past. Last second chaff tracks where it just banks behind the target. Additionally also still experiencing Aim-9x jitters on several occasions. I’ll be back with tacview files for comparison with the past. 

[Furiz]

I can confirm this, I've noticed that aim 120c, even tho it is supported by a radar lock, it tracks the target but when it gets close, about 2 miles, it goes dumb and resets to horizontal flight.

[papy.rabbit.08]

Same here, posted in FA18 section:

 

[Drac]

With the A/A situational awareness issues, I flew a mission to use TWS to see if things improved.  Had a lock in TWS and release three  -120s and they all missed.  Eventually got shot down by that threat.  Was hoping there would be a hotfix...

[Max1mus]

You would think people would figure out how the weapon and radar work before bumping a "bug" report.

 

Tip: Try not rolling over and spinning/spazzing around when supporting a missile.

[Furiz]

On 2/10/2021 at 6:07 PM, Hodo said:

Not just Aim-120s.

Aim-54s

R-77s.

And the SD-10 

All have the same issue.

 

 

 

Saw your track, you didn't set Size and RCS of the target, even tho you never lost track, if that is modeled it could be the problem.

 

Ill do a test too, I was playing on MP server so lag might be an issue, SU-25 seem to have stealth on those servers, AIM120C is having a very hard time finding them.

[TOMCATZ]

Hi,

 

in most cases the AIM120 did a good job. And if they had not catched the target I mostly found good reasons for that. In most cases the enemys notched the AIM120`s out in combination with chaffs. Sometimes I lost the track and often the enemys flown sightlines to went out of the seeker of missiles. I personally like that. 

But sometimes the missile is on track , all is fine and short before impact the missile turn into another direction for no reason. Up in the air or trying to catch a chaff cloud even when these chaffs are out of the missile seeker. I don`t know why - Wrong inputs from the fighter-radar? ECM of enemy fighters? Ground reflections? I don`t know. But it looks a bit wrong to me. In past the AIM`s worked much better.  

To make it clear - I`m pretty happy with DCS but in my view the actives need a bit of attention. 

Thank you and Cheers

Tom

Edited March 9, 2021 by TOMCATZ

[dundun92]

14 hours ago, Furiz said:

Size and RCS of the target

they dont do anything RN

[Harker]

Hi,
 
in most cases the AIM120 did a good job. And if they had not catched the target I mostly found good reasons for that. In most cases the enemys notched the AIM120`s out in combination with chaffs. Sometimes I lost the track and often the enemys flown sightlines to went out of the seeker of missiles. I personally like that. 
But sometimes the missile is on track , all is fine and short before impact the missile turn into another direction for no reason. Up in the air or trying to catch a chaff cloud even when these chaffs are out of the missile seeker. I don`t know why - Wrong inputs from the fighter-radar? ECM of enemy fighters? Ground reflections? I don`t know. But it looks a bit wrong to me. In past the AIM`s worked much better.  
To make it clear - I`m pretty happy with DCS but in my view the actives need a bit of attention. 
Thank you and Cheers
Tom

This exact behavior has been a problem for some time now. The AMRAAM's seeker shouldn't even be able to see the chaff it went after, as it looks to be outside of the seeker FOV.

And even if the target "enters the notch" for the spilt second that it does (although it's arguable how well nothing would work inside such short distance and against a sky background), the missile should continue towards the calculated interception path and attempt to reacquire, not pull a 90 degree turn towards a chaff bundle.

[Drac]

@Harker- Same here.  I will check to see if I can find that Tacview file.

[dorianR666]

On 3/9/2021 at 10:02 PM, TOMCATZ said:

Up in the air or trying to catch a chaff cloud even when these chaffs are out of the missile seeker.

Even if it was within seeker FOV, its nonsensical for the missile to think the target suddenly teleported 5 miles away right before impact.

ED needs to implement range/speed gates and proper target movement prediction in memory mode, or we'll keep seeing this.

Edited March 10, 2021 by dorianR666

[DrIoannis]

I am having the same problem after the update with the clouds. The problem is not present all the time. The missile even in STT goes straight (F16)!

I will try to add track file later.

Edited May 7, 2021 by DrIoannis

[303_Vins]

Not certain situations almost all situations!  120C fired from F-15C  TWS fly straight, loft and begin endless climb......to space mabe ? No cranking shooter if U wana ask.

Same STT.   Not guided. Trash. Useless missiles at all.   Visual mode sometimes function well.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rJUHHH9ZsPIdmyoh7cFru6A13xxnc0Up/view?usp=sharing

 

In my opinion, problem is not in missiles.  Radar and it`s bahavior is guilty.  It seems  TWS do not function as TWS but "SOFT STT" switches from TGT to TGT when fire. Than "SOFT STT" is Broken....  All is broken. damn. again ...

1 Year of development: difference- Easy kill is now impossible to kill. We are back at february 2020 and worse

Edited May 7, 2021 by 303_Vins

[diamond26]

I had also a strange experience the other day where I got killed by an orphaned AIM-120. I don't know what is the modelled FoV for AIM-120 in DCS but if you see the attached Trackview snapshots it seems a bit weird to me that a missile can do that. The first one shows the initial positions of aircraft and missile and the second one the 90 degree turn of the missile towards the unsuspected target. RWR indicated the missile only at the second phase. Launcher aircraft was shot down even before the phase 1 picture.

 

[GGTharos]

This isn't surprising, the seeker picked you up after scanning its gimbal limits and started guiding.  It's also not a 90 degree turn - there are no 90 degree angles for anything here, so let's not exaggerate, it's not helpful.

Edited May 12, 2021 by GGTharos

[diamond26]

So what are the gimbal limits of Aim-120?

[dundun92]

Just now, diamond26 said:

So what are the gimbal limits of Aim-120?

±60°, total FoV of 120°