[AS INTENDED] Razbam - Moving genuine bugs to resolved

[Fri13]

1 hour ago, Vakarian said:

When I get treated like this, that's when I stop investing my own time to help someone else. It's either mutual benefit or none.

We have bought a product, enjoy using it up until every effort to improve that module gets met with a stonewall.

 

Maybe it is that Mr. Big.Biggs wants that Harrier is left unfinished, with unrealistic features, broken state and let Razbam just collect the money from it. Anyone making any bug report should be attacked from demanding too much from a game that costs $40 in a sale, as no one should care that real price is $69.99 as it seems to be too much to ask from it.

Like who is anyone to say anything about its state or how Razbam customer service behaves, when a advices to improve the work they do is like a poison to them.

 

Razbam has not learned anything since the autumn. They have not improved their communications and they do not want to. Maybe they do not want to be part of DCS World customers base anymore as there are to demanding technical people here who requires standard to be produced that is too challenging to meet. Why it is easier just withdraw to own Discord among fanboys.

 

How much does a good public opinion cost?

 

Seems it is best time to stop talking Razbam products in any positive manner and stop recommending people to buy it.... And stop assisting Razbam at all to get their product in better state.

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

2 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

Maybe it is that Mr. Big.Biggs wants that Harrier is left unfinished, with unrealistic features, broken state and let Razbam just collect the money from it. Anyone making any bug report should be attacked from demanding too much from a game that costs $40 in a sale, as no one should care that real price is $69.99 as it seems to be too much to ask from it.

Like who is anyone to say anything about its state or how Razbam customer service behaves, when a advices to improve the work they do is like a poison to them.

 

Razbam has not learned anything since the autumn. They have not improved their communications and they do not want to. Maybe they do not want to be part of DCS World customers base anymore as there are to demanding technical people here who requires standard to be produced that is too challenging to meet. Why it is easier just withdraw to own Discord among fanboys.

 

How much does a good public opinion cost?

 

Seems it is best time to stop talking Razbam products in any positive manner and stop recommending people to buy it.... And stop assisting Razbam at all to get their product in better state.

Wrong.
     Quite honestly I packed everything away several months ago  and gave up for the medium term as I got fed up with everything changing after every update. Settings, bindings the whole enchilada.  NOT saying I don’t appreciate the updates or the process, just moving on until I see in the forums that things have stabilized to an extent I am comfortable with. Until then, no flying no spending. 
     That said, nobody owes me crap! I bought after reading the forums and making my decision knowing full well VR may not be up to what I would like it to be and many components were a WIP. 

They don’t owe me diddly, period! Nor do you have a right to demand anything Sunshine.
    The simple fact is for some of you guys, even if they gave you everything you asked for you would bitch for more! Months of “when are we getting plane x, cmon just tell us, give us a hint”. “You guys stink because you won’t tell us”. Then when you get it, it’s “ I can’t believe its the F model instead of the J” I honestly can’t believe what a selection of self centered, demanding, ungrateful weenies are mixed into this group. Mind numbing! 

So quit whining and expecting something they don’t owe you. Fly or don’t, your call Mav.... 

Civil  enough? (Believe me I held back)

[ruxtmp]

11 hours ago, Fri13 said:

Seems it is best time to stop talking Razbam products in any positive manner and stop recommending people to buy it.... And stop assisting Razbam at all to get their product in better state.

The Harrier and Tarawa still make good AI think of it as a AI add on pack and the frustration will diminish.

[dorianR666]

On 2/19/2021 at 7:52 PM, Mr. Big.Biggs said:

That said, nobody owes me crap! 

 

On 2/19/2021 at 7:52 PM, Mr. Big.Biggs said:

So quit whining and expecting something they don’t owe you.

 

On 2/19/2021 at 7:52 PM, Mr. Big.Biggs said:

They don’t owe me diddly, period! Nor do you have a right to demand anything Sunshine.

I dont know man. I think we absolutely can demand and are owed a reasonably functional module, if we paid for such a thing. The store page says "study level simulation" and "highly realistic modelling". I think that includes the Sidearm (which is also advertised) to be able to be caged and uncaged, gun pipper to aim right and TDC to move correctly with axis input. Would you disagree with that?

Edited February 21, 2021 by dorianR666

[Hawkeye_UK]

@Fri13Your not on your own - hence why i started the thread.  The whole situation is a total nonsense moving non resolved bugs to resolved.  I am also aware as an active member of one of the larger PvP servers quite a few people who also think this system is totally flawed.

 

Nothing personal against Elmo and wish him all the best but as some constructive feedback nothing can justify this methodology, it is a recipe for disaster and things are going to get missed.  

 

Also to implement something incorrectly, which is broken for it to be  then marked and dismissed as a future implementation is again a nonsense.  Its a bug, and should be treat as such (eg Rose Compass on TGP).  I also do not expect to be told that its "as per SME" as it makes them look incompetent, builds mis trust especially when there are those of us here that have worked with some of these systems in the real world.

 

Also there is some reference about numerous messages from other users who agree with this approach.  Lets just say that i have not come across one person, that is an experience harrier player (i'm over 1700 hours and other's i know are not far from this) who concludes that the current approach makes sense. 

 

As I hypothesised I think the only way we can get this back on track is to start the community bug tracker again if we are not going to get a formal, professional and structured approach from Razbam directly.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Hawkeye_UK

[wowbagger]

We've learned that it doesn't really matter how bugs are reported - what matters is what the developers decide to do with them.

 

A community bug tracker could be useful so users can check what is actually working/present/bugged/missing vs what they might be doing wrong as they learn the module.  But Razbam can choose to look at any bug tracking system and treat whatever they like as fixed or future implementation. All we can do is make noise in this forum - which can be ignored or not.

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

On 2/20/2021 at 7:35 PM, dorianR666 said:

 

 

I dont know man. I think we absolutely can demand and are owed a reasonably functional module, if we paid for such a thing. The store page says "study level simulation" and "highly realistic modelling". I think that includes the Sidearm (which is also advertised) to be able to be caged and uncaged, gun pipper to aim right and TDC to move correctly with axis input. Would you disagree with that?

 

I would “qualify “ that. 
They should and have said they intend on finishing these early access models. They however never advertised when that would be and people buy under those terms.             They have been goaded in the past by the bitching crew to commit to a  timeframe and got crucified for it. Same with open beta. They say time and time again its a test bed yet ego will not permit folk to fly on stable.  Then they bitch that its not perfect. What are they supposed to do?

     Honestly its like Dumb and Dumber!  “She said not in a million years, so your saying there’s still a chance” “No F4 currently under construction or planned but not ruling out a 3rd party at some point...” 300 posts fighting over when it will be finished and which model... seriously???!!!

     I can’t be pissed about choosing a GMC in Red because blue wasn’t available at the time. I either buy red and accept my responsibility as an adult to make that choice or I wait. That simple. 
They only owe us “someday”, nothing more!  
(All the guys who feel cool using the “straw man” term stand down. Not the point only a weak illustration.)

I choose to wait and watch.  Unfortunately I also choose to get sucked into the constant drivel from time to time and always regret it so back to the sidelines. 

Have a great week!

 

 

[bkthunder]

oops I'm pretty sure I posted something and it disappeared 

We don't even get a "post deleted" message anymore?

Edited March 8, 2021 by bkthunder

[wowbagger]

Yep. Mine have disappeared without comment or notification as well. Apparently it's the "... new page in RAZBAM’s books and paves the way for how we interact ...".

[bkthunder]

19 hours ago, wowbagger said:

Yep. Mine have disappeared without comment or notification as well. Apparently it's the "... new page in RAZBAM’s books and paves the way for how we interact ...".

Lol, it must be it then XD

 

Well just to summarize (let's see it this one stays..): don't waste your time complaining and reporting bugs here. I made a community bug tracker and reported most open bugs a while back. Razbam first tried to delete the post, then they got it locked.

For whatever reason (inability, lack of resources, unwillingness or else) the chances of seeing a finished, study level Av-8B are slim. Now you know what to expect, move forward and buy quality addons in the future.

Edited March 9, 2021 by bkthunder

[Hawkeye_UK]

What is going on - are we back to the days of genuine bug reports and posts now just being deleated.  I actualy think Razbam given the numourous abuses over the last few years of this very subject should not have access to deleate posts on this forum and that should remain with an ED mod only.

 

We need to get the community bug tracker up and running again - so many items just being moved to as intended and resolved that are genuine issues, or just marked as future implementation. 

 

Its things like this as well,

 

 

 

These are literally a few examples off the first page of resolved bugs - just have a look through and review.

 

This has to stop - genuine bugs need to be stored as genuine bugs and not being marked as resolved until they actually are.  @BIGNEWYHelp needed please.

 

 

[Fri13]

We now have cases where same bugs are reported and marked as "Resolved" and nothing happens, and then people needs to create new threads to "Problems and Open Bugs" section to get them there's and nothing happens there.

 

I really hope that ED would setup a proper bug reporting platform, other than a forum. As filling a bug report example in Bugzilla is easy and fast, but makes everyone's life easier to keep a track on things.

 

 

[key_stroked]

As a programmer, I'll just say that Razbam's methods of bug and feature tracking is pretty bad. Any software company worth their salt will have clearly defined tracking areas:

 

- not planned

- todo (planned feature not implemented yet)

- bug (coded but not working)

- resolved (coded and working correctly)

A feature that is planned, but not implemented yet (meaning there is no code for it), does NOT belong in a Resolved tracker. That's absurd. I know Razbam stated they're their own company and will do business as they see fit, which they're entitled to do, but I sure won't be pre-ordering their next module (Mudhen) if this is how they choose to do business.

 

Also, Elmo's demeanor with statements like "I'm doing it this way, you don't like it? Tough." is completely unprofessional and just reminds me of the same old Razbam before the debacle when they said the harrier was feature complete and various Razbam employees were acting unprofessionally on various social media platforms.
I thought that they were turning over a new leaf after they got roasted for how they handled that.....I guess not. Shame.

[Fri13]

17 hours ago, Halcyon said:

A feature that is planned, but not implemented yet (meaning there is no code for it), does NOT belong in a Resolved tracker. That's absurd.

 

Yes.... But what can be done when it is clearly wanted to be confusing that what is each report status etc. It is not nice to open the "Resolved" sub-forum and there are people talking that things are not fixed, and no responses anywhere. As well there are [As Intended] responses to reports that are clearly wrong, and then even moved to "resolved" just to swipe all under rug.

 

IMHO Eagle Dynamics should implement a public Bug Tracker system that would really make far more easier to keep a track of these things. The developers could sync them with internal system and public one. Searching would be easier for everyone, even using the forum login credentials for the public one.

 

But even if the forum is used, it needs better maintenance and care than now. I see almost more activity in Discord and Facebook than here. 

[AlphaJuliet]

Alright guys... I'm just trying my best to assess what bugs reported here still need some care or not... I'm gonna have to put this topic in "resolved" to better highlight the technical problems we still experience with the Harrier. Everybody stay calm