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Remove unit placement restrictions/Allow ground units to be placed on ships


Northstar98
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Hi Everyone,

 

At the moment there's a restriction in the editor for ground vehicles that ensures that non-amphibious ground vehicles are only placed on the ground - this makes a lot of sense but it does cause a couple of issues.

 

On the Channel Map, there's a fortification on the coast near Ambleteuse (Fort Mahon/Fort d'Ambleteuse: 50°48'19"N, 001°36'02"E), which I would like to place things like artillery on (there's enough space for it). However, DCS treats most of the area the fort occupies as water, which means you can't place non-amphibious units there, even if units spawn on top of it (tested using amphibious vehicles that this restriction doesn't apply to). It's the same when placing units on static objects (such as the oil and gas platforms), you can only place amphibious units onto them, even though they'll spawn where they should - which means you can't really set up something like a WW2 sea fort (using the oil rig/gas platform as a stand-in). 

 

It's the same situation with non-aircraft carrying ships, you can't place anything that isn't a linked static object or amphibious onto them. However, if you take an amphibious unit, place it on an oil rig or a gas platform, you can jump it over to a ship (that can be moving), and it will work (mostly) with a few issues that I'll detail below but are not the focus of this thread. 

 

Personally, I'd prefer to have the feature turned off (or be made optional), and place the responsibility solely with whoever is making the mission to place units sensibly.

 

Spoiler

There are a fair number of issues with doing this though, some relating to how CA handles things, as well as collision model issues.

 

The latter isn't so much a bug, but probably something that wasn't thought about, at least until amphibious landings become possible if that happens (though the LST Mk.II does have its bow doors and ramp animated, as well as the vehicle elevator, same with the Ropucha class (minus the elevator, which is probably just a hatch), the Higgens boat also has its ramp animated, so there is some FFBNW functionality in there).

 

How CA handles changing gear and the animations of tracks/wheels is the vehicle's speed but referencing the map; instead of relative to whatever surface it's on. So if you're on a ship that's moving forwards and you're vehicle is orientated in the same direction, you'll see the wheels/tracks moving as if you were driving forwards. If the vehicle is orientated in the opposite direction, they'll appear to move backwards.

 

Also, with automatic transmission at least, if the vehicle is orientated in the same direction as the ship, you'll only be able to switch between forwards/drive (D) and neutral (N), unless you were in reverse already, you won't be able to. Similarly if the vehicle is orientated so it points to the rear of the ship, you'll only be able to change between reverse and neutral, you won't be able to go into forwards/drive unless you were already in it.

 

The last issue is collisions, the upper deck is collideable so you can drive on it, but you might find that you can't collide with certain things. You can't for instance drive down the Tarawa's ramp into the hangar, you can enter the tunnel that leads down there, but when you get to the ramp, you'll appear to float up, instead of going downwards. 

 

M113_Tarawa_Jump.trk


Edited by Northstar98
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+1

 

And additionally, while at it, please give us some kind of option to place units inside open buildings. (E.g. inside shelters)

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3 minutes ago, sirrah said:

+1

 

And additionally, while at it, please give us some kind of option to place units inside open buildings. (E.g. inside shelters)

 

Yeah, that would be important for placing things like infantry inside bunkers/pillboxes/watchtowers.

 

It would also be useful (when the time comes), to place vehicles inside amphibious assault ships, so that they can land and unload (though right now you can workaround it using triggers). 

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I was able to place a Ural firetruck on the Kuznetsov, but it disappears sometimes depending on camera angle.

Static units for this ship are sorely lacking.

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On 2/6/2021 at 3:09 PM, rayrayblues said:

I was able to place a Ural firetruck on the Kuznetsov, but it disappears sometimes depending on camera angle.

Static units for this ship are sorely lacking.

 

I can't place anything that isn't amphibious onto a ship, and when they are placed they spawn on the surface of the water.

 

It's only when I place it onto a static object like the oil and gas platforms where they spawn on top of it, like they should. I am then able to jump the vehicle to a ship.

 

But I agree with the lack of units for the Kuznetsov, and it could do with some more touch ups regardless. But if we could get vehicles to spawn properly on top of ships, with the restriction removed, and even better have waypoints that are linked, it would be fantastic.


Edited by Northstar98
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On 2/6/2021 at 9:53 AM, Northstar98 said:

I can't place anything that isn't amphibious onto a ship, and when they are placed they spawn on the surface of the water.

 

Here you go...................

 

 

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Is it the static vehicle or the actual ground unit under 'ground units'?

 

Because statics can be placed anywhere, but the actual ground units under 'ground units' can't from what I can test on the latest OB.

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, CA, NS430, Hawk

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System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

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3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Is it the static vehicle or the actual ground unit under 'ground units'?

 

Because statics can be placed anywhere, but the actual ground units under 'ground units' can't from what I can test on the latest OB.

Yeah, it's static. I misunderstood your post I guess. You're right, I can't place a ground unit without

a popup that says, "Place ground vehicles on the land."

 

I see what you mean by the fort. It sticks out into the water. You can place units on the beach and

it looks like there's room on the back porch.     SRsfa58.gif   It may be a good place for AAA or Flack guns also.

 

8K3x4ye.jpg


Edited by rayrayblues
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+1, MANPADS on 'civil' marine traffic would be good.

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@rayrayblues Yeah, that explains it - but yes with the fort in particular it would be good to be able to use it as a coastal defence emplacement, there's plenty of room on the front for large AAA which will shoot at basically anything it can see.

 

With ships, it would be great if we could place non-static vehicles aboard ships (and maybe in the future have linked waypoints), which will be pretty essential for making amphibious landings and to maybe have the deck personnel and tugs be able to walk around on deck.

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@Northstar98 The back porch is over the beach so we can place units there at least, but it sees the front as water.

Too bad statics don't shoot. I tried to land a helicopter on the front. I broke the rotor as I was too close to the wall, but it's 

solid enough to land/crash on.


Edited by rayrayblues
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  • 3 months later...
Posted (edited)

Just to add to this from a related supercarrier thread. In DCS 2.7 we gained the ability to place player aircraft wherever we want to; however, the same restriction applies to them, you can't place aircraft on water or on steep inclines.

 

However, when I beached an aircraft carrier in the mission editor, I was able to place an aircraft wherever I wanted to on the portion overhanging the land, and it spawned where you'd expect it to spawn (i.e up on deck). Unfortunately because this required beaching the carrier, I wasn't able to test it while the carrier was moving.

 

Theoretically if the placement restrictions were removed (or better, were made optional), we'd be able to spawn aircraft precisely where we want them to spawn on ships out at sea.

 

And the placement restrictions can get quite silly IMO, stopping you from placing stuff on certain piers and treating them as if they are water, even though whatever your placing can clearly fit there.


Edited by Northstar98
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