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Remove unit placement restrictions/Allow ground units to be placed on ships


Northstar98

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Hi everyone,

At the moment there's a restriction in the editor that ensures that non-amphibious ground units can only be placed on the ground - this makes a lot of sense but it does cause a couple of issues:

Firstly, on the Channel Map, there's a fortification on the coast near Ambleteuse (Fort Mahon/Fort d'Ambleteuse: 50°48'19"N, 001°36'02"E), which I would like to place things like artillery on (there's enough space for it). However, DCS treats most of the area the fort occupies as water, which means you can't place any non-amphibious units there, despite the fact that amphibious vehicles (which this restriction doesn't apply to) spawn as expected with no issues.

It's the same when placing units on static objects (such as the oil and gas platforms), you can only place amphibious units onto them, even though they'll spawn where they should - which means you can't really set up something like a WW2 sea fort (using the oil rig/gas platform as a stand-in).

And it's the same situation with non-aircraft carrying ships, you can't place anything that isn't a linked static object or amphibious onto them. Unfortunately though, this time around amphibious vehicles don't spawn as expected, they spawn where you placed them, but in the water and not up on deck, however, if you take an amphibious unit, place it on an oil rig or a gas platform, you can jump it over to a ship (that can be moving), and it will work (mostly) with a few issues that I'll detail below but are not the focus of this thread.

Personally, I'd prefer to have the feature turned off (or be made optional), and place the responsibility solely with whoever is making the mission to place units sensibly.

Spoiler

There are a fair number of issues with jumping ground units onto ships, some relating to how CA handles things, as well as collision model issues.

The latter isn't so much a bug, but probably something that was overlooked, at least until amphibious landings become possible if that happens (though bear in mind that current assets (minus the Tarawa) are at least animated for amphibious operations, see the spoiler below), and that's the collision models of some of these ships. For example, on the Tarawa, there's a ramped passageway leading from the hangar to the flight deck, unfortunately though, this passageway doesn't have a damage model, and instead the collision box of the flight deck is continued, so you're always level with it. 

 

Spoiler
  • LST Mk.II has it's bow doors, ramp and loading elevator animated, as well as having its vehicle deck present.
  • The currently unimplemented BDK Pr. 775 [Ropucha I] LST/LSD present in the model files has it's bow doors, and bow and stern ramp animated (however, the loading hatch isn't animated).
  • Type 071 [Yuzhao] LPD has it's stern ramp animated and its well deck present.

The former though is has more to do with how DCS World vehicles work, particularly when it comes to changing gear and the animations of tracks/wheels. In DCS World, both of these are determined by the vehicles speed, referencing the map; instead of relative to whatever surface it's on. So if you're on a ship that's moving forwards and you're vehicle is orientated in the same direction, you'll always see the wheels/tracks moving as if you were driving forwards. If the vehicle is orientated in the opposite direction, they'll appear to move backwards.

Also, with automatic transmission at least, if the vehicle is orientated in the same direction as the ship, you'll only be able to switch between forwards/drive (D) and neutral (N); unless you were in reverse already, you won't be able to select reverse. Similarly if the vehicle is orientated so it points to the rear of the ship, you'll only be able to change between reverse and neutral, you won't be able to go into forwards/drive unless you were already in it.

As an addendum, this feature might also be useful for placing client/player aircraft exactly as desired on board ships, see this post for more details.

M113_Tarawa_Jump.trk


Edited by Northstar98
grammar, addendum
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+1

 

And additionally, while at it, please give us some kind of option to place units inside open buildings. (E.g. inside shelters)

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On 2/4/2021 at 1:50 PM, sirrah said:

+1

 

And additionally, while at it, please give us some kind of option to place units inside open buildings. (E.g. inside shelters)

Yeah, that would be important for placing things like infantry inside bunkers/pillboxes/watchtowers.

It would also be useful (when the time comes), to place vehicles inside amphibious assault ships, so that they can land and unload (though right now you can workaround it using triggers). 


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

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I was able to place a Ural firetruck on the Kuznetsov, but it disappears sometimes depending on camera angle.

Static units for this ship are sorely lacking.

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On 2/6/2021 at 3:09 PM, rayrayblues said:

I was able to place a Ural firetruck on the Kuznetsov, but it disappears sometimes depending on camera angle.

Static units for this ship are sorely lacking.

I can't place anything that isn't amphibious onto a ship, and when they are placed they spawn on the surface of the water.

It's only when I place it onto a static object like the oil and gas platforms where they spawn on top of it, like they should. I am then able to jump the vehicle to a ship.

But I agree with the lack of units for the Kuznetsov, and it could do with some more touch ups regardless. But if we could get vehicles to spawn properly on top of ships, with the restriction removed, and even better have waypoints that are linked, it would be fantastic.


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

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On 2/6/2021 at 9:53 AM, Northstar98 said:

I can't place anything that isn't amphibious onto a ship, and when they are placed they spawn on the surface of the water.

 

Here you go...................

 

 

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Is it the static vehicle or the actual ground unit under 'ground units'?

Because statics can be placed anywhere, but the actual ground units under 'ground units' can't from what I can test on the latest OB.


Edited by Northstar98
formatting

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Is it the static vehicle or the actual ground unit under 'ground units'?

 

Because statics can be placed anywhere, but the actual ground units under 'ground units' can't from what I can test on the latest OB.

Yeah, it's static. I misunderstood your post I guess. You're right, I can't place a ground unit without

a popup that says, "Place ground vehicles on the land."

 

I see what you mean by the fort. It sticks out into the water. You can place units on the beach and

it looks like there's room on the back porch.     SRsfa58.gif   It may be a good place for AAA or Flack guns also.

 

8K3x4ye.jpg


Edited by rayrayblues
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+1, MANPADS on 'civil' marine traffic would be good.

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@rayrayblues Yeah, that explains it - but yes with the fort in particular it would be good to be able to use it as a coastal defence emplacement, there's plenty of room on the front for large AAA which will shoot at basically anything it can see.

With ships, it would be great if we could place non-static vehicles aboard ships (and maybe in the future have linked waypoints), which will be pretty essential for making amphibious landings and to maybe have the deck personnel and tugs be able to walk around on deck.


Edited by Northstar98
formatting

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

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@Northstar98 The back porch is over the beach so we can place units there at least, but it sees the front as water.

Too bad statics don't shoot. I tried to land a helicopter on the front. I broke the rotor as I was too close to the wall, but it's 

solid enough to land/crash on.


Edited by rayrayblues
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  • 3 months later...

Just to add to this from a related supercarrier thread. In DCS 2.7 we gained the ability to place player aircraft wherever we want to; however, the same restriction applies to them, you can't place aircraft on water or on steep inclines.

However, when I beached an aircraft carrier in the mission editor, I was able to place an aircraft wherever I wanted to on the portion overhanging the land, and it spawned where you'd expect it to spawn (i.e up on deck). Unfortunately because this required beaching the carrier, I wasn't able to test it while the carrier was moving.

Theoretically if the placement restrictions were removed (or better, were made optional), we'd be able to spawn aircraft precisely where we want them to spawn on ships out at sea.

And the placement restrictions can get quite silly IMO, stopping you from placing stuff on certain piers and treating them as if they are water, even though whatever your placing can clearly fit there.


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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