The new APKWS Rockets...

[netizensmith]

So setup is literally select them in stores, fire a laser at something (doesn't matter what the laser code is seemingly), get to within 5 miles ish and launch. Is it really that simple?

[westr]

I guess so. The Vikhr we have on the KA-50 are that simple. They are laser guided. I guess they are classed as a missile and we class these as rockets but they are guided. 

[Tombo1]

If it's anything like the A-10C, then yeah, pretty much! But I would have thought laser codes had to match 

[AvroLanc]

6 minutes ago, Tombo1 said:

If it's anything like the A-10C, then yeah, pretty much! But I would have thought laser codes had to match 

 

In the mission editor, see one of the A/C option tabs to set the APKWS laser code.

[netizensmith]

23 minutes ago, AvroLanc said:

 

In the mission editor, see one of the A/C option tabs to set the APKWS laser code.

Thanks. I see 3 separate entries; 11X1, 111X and another one, with presumably the option to set a value for X. Does this mean that setting the TPOD laser code to any one of those 3 will work? Bizarre system.

[dorianR666]

24 minutes ago, netizensmith said:

Does this mean that setting the TPOD laser code to any one of those 3 will work? Bizarre system.

no.

those three fields each set one digit.

 

together, its exactly one laser code. not three laser codes, one laser code.

Edited January 27, 2021 by dorianR666

[LCO489]

im having trouble with TDC and TPOD. its not moving up and down. Any one else?

 

[netizensmith]

Aha! Explains why 1688 is the only code that worked for me. Cheers. Again though, weird UI.

9 minutes ago, LCO489 said:

im having trouble with TDC and TPOD. its not moving up and down. Any one else?

 

Working here I'm afraid. Although I reckon the TDC slew X-Axis is ignoring my curves. It goes from not moving to super speedy despite curves of 40. I'm using the analog stick on a VKB Gladiator for reference; gave up on the warthog throttle analog thingy.

[LCO489]

Solved. it was a Operator issue lol

[Beirut]

No Steam update until tomorrow 6AM. Can't wait to try them out. 

[Recluse]

From Tea Cypher's video:

 

 

Quote

A thing to note on these, is that they default track on laser code 1688....just like everything else. to change the laser code, 1.do it in Mission editor - under the "..." tab in the aircraft menu on the right side. 1x 11x 111x each correspond to the last 3 numbers of the laser code. so from 1688 you can change the 6, the 8, and the 8. 2. with aircraft on the ground and engine off, bring up kneeboard with right shift K. on the bottom of 1st page it says apkws rocket code, use left shift + left alt + 1/2/3 to change the last 3 numbers of the designator code. That way if you and a friend are using them together, you wont cross targets.

 

I managed to get them to work with 1688 but not another code (1776) I use for Mavericks and GBU.  Kind of sucks that you can only re-set the code from a Cold start, unless this changed.

[Fri13]

 

The APKWS II laser code is inputted only by a physical method. There is no connection from APKWS module to the rocket launcher pod, and there is no two-way connection from the rocket pod to the ship weapons control system. Most pods has two receptacles, one at front and one at rear. They are same and you can only use one of them at the time (not both). The rockets are inserted to the launcher and they have only electronic connection to the pod at the rear of the each rocket motor, two pins for the launching the rocket. That two pin spring loaded connection is responsible to send electronic pulse to the rocket motor that will ignite the rocket motor. The rocket pod has own solenoid in it that will receive a electronic signal from the vehicle as for firing. The pod has two switches behind them, one is selection is the pod in RIPPLE mode or is it in SINGLE mode - a physical switch. The other is the safety that separates the grounding from the pod and the pins of the rockets firing pins. That safety pin is last thing that is removed before aircraft starts taxiing and first thing that is connected when the aircraft comes back. As the rocket pods are mechanically connected to the vehicle, they can receive a electronic shock from anywhere that can be transmitted to the rocket firing pin and accidentally launch a rocket even when the Master Arm is Off (turning electricity off from the firing computer system, and that you have Weight On Wheels sensor activated (only Master Arm cuts power off from weapon system)) and is so on hazardous until safety pin separates the connection. This is critical especially when there are rockets with failed ignition in the pods as they can launch at any moment.

 

The firing of the rockets happens just by the memory of the weapons control system. It is programmed to have a template for how many rockets there is in the pod and is it a single or ripple fire mode. On each launch command (trigger or the release button) the system counts down how many it has left until it registers the pod empty. It doesn't have any information how many rockets there really are in the pods. It only does know like "I have 7 rockets, on each release command I count one off". The WCS sends only a signal to the pod that then receives it and there the solenoid will convert it to pulses depending is the pod mode switch set to ripple or single.

 

Each pod has multiple tubes, and each tube is numbered. The solenoid will send signal to intervalometer that converts it to pulses in that order for proper tubes. Why you can have less than full load, like just 3 rockets, as you then load them to tubes 1-2-3 and leave 4-5-6-7 empty. Then you need to register to the weapons system that there are just 3 rockets left so the WCS can count down properly until it says "Empty". You can do wrong loadouts, like load 3 rockets to tubes 4-5-6 and so on leave 1-2-3-7 tubes empty. And then program WCS to have full 7 rocket pod. Now the pilot would need to press weapon release trigger four times before first rocket would launch, as the pod would receive signal on each time and transmit it properly to each corresponding tube until there is a rocket. The WCS would show to the pilot that rockets are launched, even when there is none launched. This is critical task that the pilot does maintain awareness that has rocket been launched on each trigger/button press or not, as if the rocket doesn't fire, then it is a dud and proper actions needs to be taken.

 

If the pod is set to RIPPLE mode, then the solenoid will send a signal to all tubes in proper order. The rockets are fired (IIRC) in 25 millisecond delay to each other. There is no stopping the launch process once it is triggered as the pod does it autonomously. In 7 rocket pod it takes then 175 ms to launch all, or in 19 rocket pod 475 ms. If there comes a dud or jam, the pilot needs to check visually the pod status as there is nothing in the WCS that would inform pilot that weapons has been left in the pods or there is malfunction.

So pilot needs to inform as well the ground crew upon landing that there are malfunction in the rocket pods, why they will first thing insert the safety pin before starting proper procedure to remove a malfunctioning weapon.

 

The APKWS II module itself has no connections in either end of it, where it is screwed to the warhead and to the rocket motor. It is just a physical threaded connection. The APKWS II module is fully standalone guidance module that doesn't know anything about what warhead or rocket motor it is attached, or what pod is used to launch it or what vehicle is carrying it.

The APKWS II module has four dials for flathead screwdriver to be used to set the laser code. And then there is a fifth dial that grounds the module own battery when the rocket detects a high G acceleration. On the launch the module detects the acceleration and battery gets activated and the guidance system gets activated. Wings that are spring loaded gets released and they opens up, and first stabilizes the rocket rotation (10/30 rounds per second on the launch moment) and after detecting it is flying without roll, it starts searching for the laser dot with matching frequency that was programmed with the screwdrive. And once it detects the spot in its +-20 degree field of view (40 degree FOV in total) it will use its wings to steer toward it using Proportional Navigation guidance, so simply get the laser dot to center of FOV and maintain it there.

 

Now there are other rocket pods like the US Army used ones that has separated sections of the tubes. This way they can load in the one pod rockets that has different warheads. Like Fletchette, HEAT and HE warheads in three sections. Or they can load all as same. And the weapons control system will allow to send the signal to each of these sections separately. Why example Apache pilot can choose to use a HEAT against a armor and HE against a infantry.

 

The front of the pod has two receptacle and forward one is used for cases where you have programmable warheads and it is typically marked as "Fuze" and the rear one will be just the firing connector (usually these helicopter pods do not have the rear receptacle). You can see these programmable warheads that small cable comes from them and connects to the pod. On launch these cables will brake off. The programmability is then in the aircraft WCS where example pilot ranges the target and time fuze is set for the fragmentation warhead so rocket will explode properly near  the target. Or pilot can program the proximity fuze in the warhead for similar effect.

But these warheads are mainly for army and example US navy doesn't use them (AFAIK).

 

There are other kind guided rockets on the market. And they typically have other connections. And this is main reason why APKWS II won the two low-cost guided rocket programs US had as it is 100% backward compatible and 100% compatible with any vehicle that is just capable to fire a Hydra 70 rockets. There is no software updates, no hardware changes to be done. It is same as firing a unguided rocket.

 

These other systems has extra digital connections for programming, and some has even a wireless connections. Some use the Hellfire interface so the platform sees these guided rockets as Hellfire missiles and can program them similar way, like having a high loft profile etc. But these are rockets with FLIR and EO seekers, there are Lock-On-Before-Launch rockets (APWKS II is Lock On After Launch) that has their seeker exposed for the front. And these rockets can require some software updates or compatibilities like to the Hellfire system.

And they get expensive and difficult to maintain and service etc. Very capable but not really a replacement to unguided cheap rocket.

Example: https://youtu.be/xuVi9I4yBA0

 

The Razbam was wise in implementing the APKWS II to Harrier as it is technically possible to carry and use them. Only real limitation in DCS should be that Harrier used them in 2016-. So it is up to mission designer to decide do they want to give the APKWS II to the player or not.

So credit for Razbam being sensible regarding that in what kind missions their module can be used and not restrict it to one specific operational year but going for the technical standpoints.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, LCO489 said:

im having trouble with TDC and TPOD. its not moving up and down. Any one else?

 

8 hours ago, LCO489 said:

Solved. it was a Operator issue lol

 

And the solution was what? Please, help others in the future to find solution if they are having same problems.

[Recluse]

Thanks Fri13!

 

That was great information!

 

Question: Let's say you load 2xHE pods on the outboard stations and 2xMPP on the Inboard stations (or whatever) Is it possible to select the stations to fire?

 

When I have loaded dissimilar rocket pods, there was no indication of any difference, which fits with your description above where the jet doesn't really know anything about the rockets, just the pods.

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Recluse

[netizensmith]

1 hour ago, Recluse said:

Thanks Fri13!

 

That was great information!

 

Question: Let's say you load 2xHE pods on the outboard stations and 2xMPP on the Inboard stations (or whatever) Is it possible to select the stations to fire?

 

When I have loaded dissimilar rocket pods, there was no indication of any difference, which fits with your description above where the jet doesn't really know anything about the rockets, just the pods.

 

 

You can "step" between the pods. I believe by default it will cycle through them as you fire, so you'd have to override this manually if you had two different varieties onboard.

[LCO489]

6 hours ago, Fri13 said:

And the solution was what? Please, help others in the future to find solution if they are having same problems.

 

I was using it incorrectly. I just went for a tutorial and spotted my mistake. Was trying to operate it like i do in the JF17 TPOD.

Edited January 28, 2021 by LCO489

[Hawkeye_UK]

8 hours ago, netizensmith said:

You can "step" between the pods. I believe by default it will cycle through them as you fire, so you'd have to override this manually if you had two different varieties onboard.

 

They should appear at the top of the MFD as two separate munitions however at the moment they do not - there lies the problem.

[Fri13]

17 hours ago, Hawkeye_UK said:

 

They should appear at the top of the MFD as two separate munitions however at the moment they do not - there lies the problem.

 

Does the Navy or USMC separate the rockets by the warhead? So far I have only seen the pod configuration, like 68S or 68R telling pod type 68 and in Single or Ripple mode.

The Army instead does tell the warhead type so the pilot knows what warhead is to be used, as they use multiple other warheads than just couple.