A little help with AGM 65E ?

[dburne]

Ok so as I am going through my Hornet learning process, I have come to the AGM 65E.

This one I am struggling with.

I use Chuck's guides for this along with a mission that already exists for learning purposes.

 

This one I am stuck. I do ok up through getting the code from Jtac and entering it, but here is where I am stuck:

 

10.
From the TAC page on either DDI or the AMPCD, press the OSB
(Option Select Button) next to “ FLIR”(Forward Looking Infrared) to
select the Targeting Pod feed page Monitor the warm up process

 

I do not see any such FLIR OSB selection in the TAC DDI page or any for that matter ?

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

 

[markturner1960]

You need to be in AG mode and master arm on I think and it needs to be turned on on the RH console. Also, I find using the JTAC another layer of complexity and not got it worked out yet myself. I have a great training mission I can send you if you like, with everything there from ramp start, in air start, refueling and carrier landing ....let me know 

Edited January 25, 2021 by markturner1960

[dburne]

2 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

You need to be in AG mode and master arm on I think and it needs to be turned on on the RH console. Also, I find using the JTAC another layer of complexity and not got it worked out yet myself. I have a great training mission I can send you if you like, with everything there from ramp start, in air start, refueling and carrier landing ....let me know 

 

 

Yes I am following his guide to the letter, am in AG mode and Master Arm is on. I just do not see that FLIR OSB option anywhere.

 

Sure ya would love to have a go with that mission!

[markturner1960]

have you turned it on on the RH console? the option does not appear until its turned on...will post the mission shortly

Edited January 25, 2021 by markturner1960

[Zyll]

Just to eliminate the obvious, you do have a litening pod on the jet, and your gear is not down, correct?

[dburne]

23 minutes ago, Zyll said:

Just to eliminate the obvious, you do have a litening pod on the jet, and your gear is not down, correct?

 

Well I assume so, it is the specific mission for this weapon. It is the AGM 65E weapons qualification mission. I successfully enter the code for it.

Just went through it again taking my time and being very careful - I never get an FLIR option select button on the TAC menu, or any menu I can see. The Mavericks show in standby.

 

 

[dburne]

Hmm just watched Wags video for using the 65E and he does not do those steps I am struggling with.

Maybe I better have another look.

[Tholozor]

The Laser Maverick qualification mission doesn't spawn you with a targeting pod, you'll have to contact the JTAC and have it lase the target for you.

[dburne]

5 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

The Laser Maverick qualification mission doesn't spawn you with a targeting pod, you'll have to contact the JTAC and have it lase the target for you.

 

Yes that is what I am doing per Chuck's guide.

I can't get any further though, apparently am supposed to select an OSB that has FLIR, but I can't find any such OSB. His guide says it is in the TAC menu, but I sure can't see it so obviously can not select it.

I tried continuing on beyond that, but it won't let me turn FLIR on. So there is something there I am missing bigly.

 

Sigh maybe I should just give up on the 65E and move on to other bombs. Seems like would be pretty cool to utilize though.

[dorianR666]

flir is targeting pod.

 

if you have no targeting pod mounted, flir page wont be available.

 

youre supposed to contact the jtac in the training mission, he will lase the target for you.

Edited January 25, 2021 by dorianR666

[dburne]

5 minutes ago, dorianR666 said:

flir is targeting pod.

 

if you have no targeting pod mounted, flir page wont be available.

 

youre supposed to contact the jtac in the training mission, he will lase the target for you.

 

 

Ok I guess I am just confused then, I have AGM 65E loaded and am following Chuck's guide for deploying the AGM 65E.

I will read up some more, thanks.

Yikes just found this at the end of his 65E guide:

Note
for lasers designated by others
•
If you are tracking a target laser by another aircraft or a JTAC, uncaging the missile will search for any laser in the vicinity
•
If a laser is detected the MAV crossed out indication will disappear and be replaced by the RDY indication The HUD will also display MAV LKD Maverick Locked on Laser)

 

Back to try again, thanks.

[thrustvector]

no your doing right but thats without the mission where you dont need to self lase, so JTAC will do that for you hence just skip the bit about the flir 

[dburne]

1 minute ago, thrustvector said:

no your doing right but thats without the mission where you dont need to self lase, so JTAC will do that for you hence just skip the bit about the flir 

 

Gotcha, off to try again.

[dburne]

I give up for the day. Been trying for a while to get this and I think I just keep becoming more and more confused.

Even with Jtac lasing the target, the Mavericks just stay in standby mode.

Chuck's Guide goes over all these different steps, but at the end says if target being lased by Jtac uncaging the missile will search for any laser in the vicinity, but I am getting nowhere with this.

 

I guess I need an AGM 65E for dummies guide.

Edited January 25, 2021 by dburne

[Sarge55]

Are you approaching the target from the correct direction?  IIRC the JTAC will give you an attack heading, if you approach from the wrong direction you may not detect the laser reflection.

[dburne]

1 minute ago, Sarge55 said:

Are you approaching the target from the correct direction?  IIRC the JTAC will give you an attack heading, if you approach from the wrong direction you may not detect the laser reflection.

 

I think I am already set up with the correct direction as I am heading to that waypoint.

Watched Wags video again and he does not do all those steps in Chuck's guide that I am struggling with, he makes it look pretty easy lol.

I will start fresh with it again in the morning, think I have had enough for the day today.

Thanks to all I really appreciate the help and suggestions.

I am determined to eventually get this.

 

I am sure I will be updating the thread tomorrow with any progress.

[Oilman100]

Better sending in a TRK file, remember the JTAC will give you co-ordinates, I think in that mission they are at a waypoint, so make sure you are pointing directly at it, ensure you declare to JTAC, ‘IP Inbound’ and then ‘Laser On’ command, once they acknowledge then Uncage your Mav, whilst pointing your nose at the general area, ensure your pointing down at about 5° to get optimum chance of lock.

[dburne]

7 minutes ago, Oilman100 said:

Better sending in a TRK file, remember the JTAC will give you co-ordinates, I think in that mission they are at a waypoint, so make sure you are pointing directly at it, ensure you declare to JTAC, ‘IP Inbound’ and then ‘Laser On’ command, once they acknowledge then Uncage your Mav, whilst pointing your nose at the general area, ensure your pointing down at about 5° to get optimum chance of lock.

 

Thanks will do when I try again in the morning, will advise. I am hopeful! In my prior attempt I could not get the Maverick to uncage.

Edited January 25, 2021 by dburne

[Zyll]

My recommendation is to learn the laser Maverick with self lasing first, and that should (hopefully) correlate with what you are reading in Chuck's guide, and seeing in Wag's video. The JTAC is just adding more complexity to your situation, and understandable frustration. Working with AI JTAC is a whole other category of material to learn.

So hop in a mission with easy to find ground targets, and load up with AGM65E and a litening pod, and then you should be able to follow the instructions.

Good luck!

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, Zyll said:

My recommendation is to learn the laser Maverick with self lasing first, and that should (hopefully) correlate with what you are reading in Chuck's guide, and seeing in Wag's video. The JTAC is just adding more complexity to your situation, and understandable frustration. Working with AI JTAC is a whole other category of material to learn.

So hop in a mission with easy to find ground targets, and load up with AGM65E and a litening pod, and then you should be able to follow the instructions.

Good luck!

 

Makes sense thanks for the suggestion!

I will have a look at that in the morning.

 

At least earlier this morning I did have good success learning the Mk 83 and 84 bombs in both CCIP and Auto modes. Got to blow some stuff up anyway.

Edited January 25, 2021 by dburne

[MTrenda]

Just to throw two cents in the bucket:

i have not heard that you turned on the Flir on the right panel, there should be two toggle switches to turn it on.  the one closes to your leg would need two clicks.  then the outside toglle needs to be turned on to set the laser code.  At that point you can go to the ddi and select menu (middle osb on the bottom)  and in the top left you should see an option for flir (topleft osb)

 

so for summary:

Step 1. Turn FLIR on (Two clicks forward on the toggle switch, right panel)

Step 2. Click the Laser Designator on ( Outside toggle switch on same panel)

Step 3: On the ddi Right side, click the menu OSB (bottom middle button)

Step 4:  click the top left side of the ddi OSB FLIR

 

This should bring up the FLIR page  at this point you should be able to follow the guide as required since there are several steps after this to get on target.

 

let me know if this helps 

 

thanks 

Falcon  

[CBStu]

I was having the same problem a couple days ago. I don't have it 100% yet but a couple things that I realized. That mission has a JTAC to do the lasing for you so you do NOT need the flir. Chucks Guide gives the procedure for using your own pod w/ flir to do the lasing and then throws that line or two you noticed in at the end. You said that here.

"Chuck's Guide goes over all these different steps, but at the end says if target being lased by Jtac uncaging the missile will search for any laser in the vicinity, but I am getting nowhere with this.

The problem is he doesn't tell you exactly which step to back up to or which steps to leave out. You 'may' be able to find an older youtube tutorial from before the pod/flir existed which would be helpful. I disagree w/ Zyll. For me the JTAC is easier to deal w/ than the pod/flir. First,  I have a very hard time finding targets w/ the pod/flir. The JTAC eliminates that for us since he finds the target and lases it. Second, you have to get the flir started up, then you have to somehow couple it so that when you find the target and lase it, that info is transferred to the Mav.

I found oilman's comment worked for me.

"Better sending in a TRK file, remember the JTAC will give you co-ordinates, I think in that mission they are at a waypoint, so make sure you are pointing directly at it, ensure you declare to JTAC, ‘IP Inbound’ and then ‘Laser On’ command, once they acknowledge then Uncage your Mav, whilst pointing your nose at the general area, ensure your pointing down at about 5° to get optimum chance of lock."

 

Are you getting to the screen where the X is going back and forth left to right indicating that the MavE is hunting for a laser? See Chucks Guide page 356 top right pic. When it finds the laser the X stops and turns into a solid square like on pg 359 right pic. (Note the page #s are hard to see depending on what the backround is. Find pg 360 and go up one for 359) In that training mission I cheat like crazy and find the targets on the F10 map. Then at least I have a general idea where to fly. On one pass I noticed that oilmans 'pointing down at about 5*' to be important. I gather that the seeker can only see up and down a certain amount. So, depending on altitude and distance from the target, your plane needs to be pointing down somewhat or the seeker is looking over the target and not seeing it. So I was approaching the target, the X was going back and forth like crazy, I dropped the plane's nose to see better and bam, the laser locked on. BTW I found I could just fly up and down the coast line which kept me properly oriented and shoot going both directions.

BTW2. I am flying more missions w/ more new to me weapons ( like you) and I recently moved my Com1 and Com2 to a switch on my throttle grip. This has been a huge advantage w/ this stuff. I can get the Com1 menu up on the screen w/ a push of my left thumb, and then hit the comment I want to make w/ the mouse pointer.  

[dburne]

17 minutes ago, CBStu said:

I was having the same problem a couple days ago. I don't have it 100% yet but a couple things that I realized. That mission has a JTAC to do the lasing for you so you do NOT need the flir. Chucks Guide gives the procedure for using your own pod w/ flir to do the lasing and then throws that line or two you noticed in at the end. You said that here.

"Chuck's Guide goes over all these different steps, but at the end says if target being lased by Jtac uncaging the missile will search for any laser in the vicinity, but I am getting nowhere with this.

The problem is he doesn't tell you exactly which step to back up to or which steps to leave out. You 'may' be able to find an older youtube tutorial from before the pod/flir existed which would be helpful. I disagree w/ Zyll. For me the JTAC is easier to deal w/ than the pod/flir. First,  I have a very hard time finding targets w/ the pod/flir. The JTAC eliminates that for us since he finds the target and lases it. Second, you have to get the flir started up, then you have to somehow couple it so that when you find the target and lase it, that info is transferred to the Mav.

I found oilman's comment worked for me.

"Better sending in a TRK file, remember the JTAC will give you co-ordinates, I think in that mission they are at a waypoint, so make sure you are pointing directly at it, ensure you declare to JTAC, ‘IP Inbound’ and then ‘Laser On’ command, once they acknowledge then Uncage your Mav, whilst pointing your nose at the general area, ensure your pointing down at about 5° to get optimum chance of lock."

 

Are you getting to the screen where the X is going back and forth left to right indicating that the MavE is hunting for a laser? See Chucks Guide page 356 top right pic. When it finds the laser the X stops and turns into a solid square like on pg 359 right pic. (Note the page #s are hard to see depending on what the backround is. Find pg 360 and go up one for 359) In that training mission I cheat like crazy and find the targets on the F10 map. Then at least I have a general idea where to fly. On one pass I noticed that oilmans 'pointing down at about 5*' to be important. I gather that the seeker can only see up and down a certain amount. So, depending on altitude and distance from the target, your plane needs to be pointing down somewhat or the seeker is looking over the target and not seeing it. So I was approaching the target, the X was going back and forth like crazy, I dropped the plane's nose to see better and bam, the laser locked on. BTW I found I could just fly up and down the coast line which kept me properly oriented and shoot going both directions.

BTW2. I am flying more missions w/ more new to me weapons ( like you) and I recently moved my Com1 and Com2 to a switch on my throttle grip. This has been a huge advantage w/ this stuff. I can get the Com1 menu up on the screen w/ a push of my left thumb, and then hit the comment I want to make w/ the mouse pointer.  

 

Much thanks, I am sure I will be reading this all again before trying it again tomorrow.

Regarding Comms, I am using Voice Attack with Vaicom Pro, have not had any trouble communicating with Jtac.

No pretty sure I am not getting to that screen you mentioned.

 

Much thanks for the input!

2 hours ago, MTrenda said:

Just to throw two cents in the bucket:

i have not heard that you turned on the Flir on the right panel, there should be two toggle switches to turn it on.  the one closes to your leg would need two clicks.  then the outside toglle needs to be turned on to set the laser code.  At that point you can go to the ddi and select menu (middle osb on the bottom)  and in the top left you should see an option for flir (topleft osb)

 

so for summary:

Step 1. Turn FLIR on (Two clicks forward on the toggle switch, right panel)

Step 2. Click the Laser Designator on ( Outside toggle switch on same panel)

Step 3: On the ddi Right side, click the menu OSB (bottom middle button)

Step 4:  click the top left side of the ddi OSB FLIR

 

This should bring up the FLIR page  at this point you should be able to follow the guide as required since there are several steps after this to get on target.

 

let me know if this helps 

 

thanks 

Falcon  

 

Thanks - Yes I tried turning on the FLIR, but that second switch you mentioned would not turn on, it kept kicking back to off.

Maybe because I was using Jtac to lase the target?

I think my problem must lie in with this mission using Jtac to do the lasing, and the guide I am using is not telling me exactly what to do in this case - as was previously mentioned above.

Edited January 26, 2021 by dburne

[pete_auau]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytxo5Tbl-5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOjSJDcj6bI&list=PL3kOAM2N1YJc5x-z99XdX-XxWg4I0Of-a&index=64&t=88s

 

As  what  has been  said  before if  your  using  a  3rd  party  to laze   for  you  you dont  need  worry  about  turning  on  your  flir,  since  you  wont  be  using  it. 

You mention  the  second  switch  being  kick  back  again  you need  to be  in  a/g   and  have  master  arm  on

 

so  in the  above  mention  utubes  what  are  you  doing  thats  not  being  shown

Edited January 26, 2021 by pete_auau

[oldcrusty]

I agree with CBStu, JTACs make it a lot easier to find and attack targets in CAS environment, especially if you're striving for realism JTACs are invaluable. Flying a fast jet it's hard to find anything unless you have a pre-planned static target. Even if you find a target (?), a vehicle for instance, you don't really know what the f is going on on the ground. It could be SF troops disguised as enemy (not everyone on the same page on command level), etc...

Anyways, JTACs in DCS could be tricky. If your controllers are on the ground and happen to be too close to a column of tanks they are targeting... they can get whacked. You won't hear any more comms anymore. 

I like to use drones. No need to set up drone controllers, the drone will talk to you . All you need to do is setup an orbit above the ops zone and assign a target to be designated.

I like to have a FLIR feed just to see what I'm shooting at. Your hotas needs to be configured properly. Your cage/uncage switch turns your LST on when you call for laser on. Don't worry about LTD/R switch if you're not self lasing... although it's might be a good idea to have it on and ready in case the JTAC fails/dies since the target location would probably be known already. Also, it might be a good idea to plugin the grid that JTAC gives you. It's 6 digit but will give a good reference to point the jet at. You should be able to pick up the laser with no problem.

I think it's probably best to make your own simple mission if you just starting to learn all this stuff. Try your own LTD/R first to designate then play around with JTACs. Key word here is 'play around', try different scenarios. The guide (Chuck's or whatever might give you an idea where the switches are...)