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55 minutes ago, Harzach said:

I know I'm not alone in originally thinking the Apache was cool because of Blue Thunder, which was a Gazelle.

 

You are just all over the place today, aren't you?

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1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

Or how ED aren't making a Hind, oh wait. 

 

The Hind is just a prototype for the Apache tho. They're making it because it's simple and allows them to spend more time polishing the AI gunner thing, to then use it on the Apache and hang themselves a medal for a job well done. It would have been disastrous if the Apache released without an AI gunner, or if the AI gunner was bad. Just a huge loss of street cred right after the F-16 fiasco. ED can't afford that. But the Hind getting a half-assed or non existent AI gunner at first? That's not so critical. The few who were going to buy the Hind are still going to buy it, the ones that just wanted an Attack Helicopter will probably wait for the Apache anyway, and the Hind is not going to be considered a mainline module by the community or ED themselves, so the blow wouldn't have been that big, if there was a blow at all.

Main: MiG-21bis, because pocket rockets are fun

 

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

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3 hours ago, ResonantCard1 said:

The Hind is just a prototype for the Apache tho. They're making it because it's simple and allows them to spend more time polishing the AI gunner thing, to then use it on the Apache and hang themselves a medal for a job well done.

 

Uh huh, wonder if you think the Hornet was just a prototype for the F-16CM, by the exact same metric.

 

Quote

It would have been disastrous if the Apache released without an AI gunner, or if the AI gunner was bad. Just a huge loss of street cred right after the F-16 fiasco. ED can't afford that. But the Hind getting a half-assed or non existent AI gunner at first? That's not so critical.

 

Right, sure - reality check: no. A multicrew aircraft with a crappy AI copilot, gunner whatever would be disastrous either way, for any module that depends on it. I mean, how is it any less critical in the Hind than the Apache? Answer? It isn't - it's no less disastrous than on the Mi-24P, you're just desperate to throw shade at it. We get it, you don't like it, and I'm sure you'll go on and on about how it's crap, and so is every other sought after REDFOR aircraft, and the only conceivable reason people ever buy modules ever is the latest and greatest - going by this thread both seem like such popular opinions, clearly the voice of the community, oh wait.

 

Speaking of disastrous, how disastrous would the Apache D be, y'know the Longbow Apache, if it released without its Longbow RADAR? Y'know the thing that gives it its name? Because if this is anything to go on, that looks to be the case, at least initially.

 

Quote

The few who were going to buy the Hind are still going to buy it, the ones that just wanted an Attack Helicopter will probably wait for the Apache anyway, and the Hind is not going to be considered a mainline module by the community or ED themselves, so the blow wouldn't have been that big, if there was a blow at all.

 

Is more of your crystal ball talking again?

 

The people who just want an attack helicopter will probably buy both, and with so few helicopters as is, and many rotorheads clamouring for more, the Mi-24 will probably sell well, I'll probably buy both, but I'll get much more use out of the Hind, not because it's better but because I can imagine getting bored of the Apache fast, and the Hind will be much more rewarding. Ultimately, ED wouldn't have considered it if they knew it was going to flop as you're oh so confident it will. Imagine thinking that arguably the most iconic and distinctive REDFOR combat helicopter is going to flop...

 

Seriously, google "iconic soviet helicopters" for me, out of the top 5 results, 4 of them were Hinds...

 

And "not a mainline module" by what metric are you basing that off of? I don't know it might just be a little more than just a prototype for the Apache...


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

 

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2 hours ago, ResonantCard1 said:

The Hind is just a prototype for the Apache tho. They're making it because it's simple and allows them to spend more time polishing the AI gunner thing, to then use it on the Apache and hang themselves a medal for a job well done. It would have been disastrous if the Apache released without an AI gunner, or if the AI gunner was bad. Just a huge loss of street cred right after the F-16 fiasco. ED can't afford that. But the Hind getting a half-assed or non existent AI gunner at first? That's not so critical. The few who were going to buy the Hind are still going to buy it, the ones that just wanted an Attack Helicopter will probably wait for the Apache anyway, and the Hind is not going to be considered a mainline module by the community or ED themselves, so the blow wouldn't have been that big, if there was a blow at all.

 

 

I know sometimes you find it difficult to stay on a positive vibe and you have your own opinions, but please, dont talk nonsense.

 

Please also read the rules before posting, keep the feedback constructive even if it is negative. 

 

thank you

 

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1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

Uh huh, wonder if you think the Hornet was just a prototype for the F-16CM, by the exact same metric.

 

Well seeing that many of the big systems of the F-16 were pioneered on the Hornet...

 

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

most iconic and distinctive REDFOR combat helicopter

And how popular is Redfor to make the module not flop? Seeing just how many people fly the red modules...probably not much.

 

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

And "not a mainline module" by what metric are you basing that off of? I don't know it might just be a little more than just a prototype for the Apache...

In terms of players, attention given to it by the devs themselves, attention given to it by the content creators and mission makers... for example look at the F-5. Sure it has its cult following, but you will never see someone saying it's the main DCS module. 

Main: MiG-21bis, because pocket rockets are fun

 

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

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10 minutes ago, ResonantCard1 said:

Well seeing that many of the big systems of the F-16 were pioneered on the Hornet...

 

So the F/A-18C is just a prototype for the F-16C, that's all it's for, as that's what you're implicating the Hind is.

 

Quote

And how popular is Redfor to make the module not flop? Seeing just how many people fly the red modules...probably not much.

 

Based on?

 

Quote

In terms of players, attention given to it by the devs themselves, attention given to it by the content creators and mission makers...

 

Oh yes, lets judge an aircraft that's not even released yet by how many missions it's in and how much content has been released for it!

 

Bloody hell...

 

Quote

for example look at the F-5. Sure it has its cult following, but you will never see someone saying it's the main DCS module. 

 

What is the main DCS module?


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

 

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LOL 

 

Was the OP a prayer to the E.D. Gods or a very long exercise in creative visualisation (wishful thinking)?

 

"I love American aircraft, I want the world to bow down in front of the alter of magnificent American aircraft ! I only want E.D. to make US aircraft." X 1000

 

If I say often enough and loud enough and long enough that Red aircraft are impossible, no one wants them and no one will buy them, maybe I can make it come true.

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3 minutes ago, Weta43 said:

LOL 

 

Was the OP a prayer to the E.D. Gods or a very long exercise in creative visualisation (wishful thinking)?

 

"I love American aircraft, I want the world to bow down in front of the alter of magnificent American aircraft ! I only want E.D. to make US aircraft." X 1000

 

If I say often enough and loud enough and long enough that Red aircraft are impossible, no one wants them and no one will buy them, maybe I can make it come true.

 

Absolutely!


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

 

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Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/mBG4dD

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7 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Based on?

 

How many people do you see flying the modules? How many servers do you see focused on the modules? How many clans, how many tools, how many campaigns? They're there but they aren't the most numerous

 

7 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Oh yes, lets judge an aircraft that's not even released yet by how many missions it's in and how much content has been released for it!

 

Just wait. 

 

8 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

What is the main DCS module?

Either the Hornet or the F-16

Main: MiG-21bis, because pocket rockets are fun

 

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

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20 minutes ago, ResonantCard1 said:

How many people do you see flying the modules? How many servers do you see focused on the modules? How many clans, how many tools, how many campaigns? They're there but they aren't the most numerous

 

Funny, last I remembered SP had the majority player base...

 

Quote

Just wait. 

 

I shall; though it's funny as going by the point you made, the apache and typhoon aren't popular at all given how few content has been developed for them.

 

It's almost on the same level as saying that the P-47D is a superior, modern CAS aircraft compared to the A-10, as no P-47D was lost in the Kosovo War in 1998/1999.

 

Quote

Either the Hornet or the F-16

 

They receive the most development now (especially the Hornet), but before that it was the A-10C/Ka-50/FC3 easily.


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

 

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro

 

Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/mBG4dD

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7 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

They receive the most development now (especially the Hornet), but before that it was the A-10C/Ka-50/FC3 easily.

Yeah well, FC3 was killed by the Hornet, the A-10 is kind of a dying breed already, and the Ka-50 is 100% going to be killed by the Apache. The good old times I guess

Main: MiG-21bis, because pocket rockets are fun

 

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I played lock-on, moved to FC with the Su-25T (though I prefer the A), and was a closed tester for E.D. from before the Ka-50 was released until after the F/A-18C was in open beta.

 

I have so little interest in flying US aircraft I didn't know how how to read the F-15 radar till I had to learn the F-18 for testing.

 

I enjoyed testing the Huey, but the Mi-8 is a more interesting module.

 

Mostly I now fly the Su-25A (instant buy if they do a DCS module), the Mi-8, the Ka-50 and the Su-27 (in that order)

I get the F-18 out to practice traps, but find the US fixed wing aircraft more sterile to fly than the Su-25A or the Su-27.

 

Ironically, given the primary complaint of many against the FC3 aircraft was the need to memorise key combinations, there's more need to memorise keystrokes (hat-switch toggles anyway) in the computerised modern aircraft than there was in the FC3 aircraft.

 

I have zero (0.00) interest in the F-16.

 

I'll buy the Mi-24 as soon as possible, I doubt that I'll buy the AH-64.

I'll buy the Mossie, as that is a truly iconic aircraft.

If E.D. can sort out the GCI I'll buy the MiG-29, and Su-27 if they ever do that.

Eurofighter's a nice & capable aircraft, but standoff button pushing isn't all that moving...

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10 minutes ago, ResonantCard1 said:

the A-10 is kind of a dying breed already

 

What, did you miss the A-10C II, that released a few months ago? The A-10C has always been a DCS staple, and is one of the few modern aircraft actually more-or-less complete.

 

The A-10C II is also the most modern aircraft in DCS so far - on par with JF-17.

 

Quote

and the Ka-50 is 100% going to be killed by the Apache.

 

We'll see about that, I guess you think that every REDFOR aircraft is going to be killed 100% by it's BLUFOR counterpart (which is -ish for the Apache, as the Mi-28 is much more its counterpart).

 

6 minutes ago, lmp said:

ResonantCard1, what's your point in this thread?

 

To try and convince everyone that the MiG-29 and Mi-24P are worthless and a waste of time, useless compared to competition, are unpopular and will be financial flops.

 

It might even extend to REDFOR aircraft in general...

 


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

 

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro

 

Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/mBG4dD

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... & on the subject of the all-conquering F-16 - it was less capable than the MiG-29 variants it faced when they were fielded, and it wouldn't have won the competition to be the NATO fighter if the US hadn't put so much pressure on Europe. 

 

It is a good plane now, but with 46 years of development time, and the amount of money that's been throw at it, they could have started with a Cessna Caravan and still had a good multi-role aircraft by now...

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Funny post, you show some logical conclusions, but you are not aware of a few things. Especially you do not know how man-hours influence module profitability and it's crucial.

 

1) ED knows perfectly Apache is going to be a bestseller, but Apache requires absolutely ungodly amount of man-hours hurting it's profitability.

 

2) ED decided to make a Hind because of few reasons,

- it's incomparably less man-hours intensive to make than Apache,

- they have absolutely all the information needed including SME

- it's still going to sell well, especially in Europe and Russia and dividing sales by man-hours it could prove to be similar in profit to Apache

 

3) MiG-29 - here is where you are mistaken the most.

 

- MiG-29 is going to sell fantastic, Europe, Russia, China, al the other regions of the World, it served in huge amount of states in the world and it's an absolute legend and people were eagerly awaiting any redford Semi-modern fighter just being redford

 

- it's going to be a low hanging fruit: they already have high quality external 3D model, close professional flight model, all it's weapons - they woul have to make just a new cockpit and simple AA only 1980s single mission avionics with it's limitations, operated by some today's calculator-like speed microchip and tune the flight model. Maybe some GCI integration.

 

Dividing sales by man-hours MiG-29 is going to be one of the best deals in ED history.

 

--------------------------------

 

BTW: making AA only + unguided bombs/rockets F/A-18 or F-16 with internal and external model, flight model etc. (so some MiG-29 or other single mission 1980s plane) took some 1 year.

Adding ~2005 modern sophisticated guided AG systems takes another 3 years.

 

Now ask yourself a question: what would be more profitable: one F/A-18C from ~2005

 

or three: F/A-18C lot 8, F-16C block 30, F-15C MSIP II - all from 1980s standard.

 

Would F/A-18C being i.e. Lot 8 from 1980s instead of Lot 20 from ~2005 make it sell 3 times worse?

Do statistical customer even knows what is Lot 8 or Lot 20 standard?

Oh, would it make it sell worse AT ALL? Still being 2-3 times faster to make...

 

 


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10 minutes ago, bies said:

Dividing sales by man-hours MiG-29 is going to be one of the best deals in ED history.

 

Could very well be the case. Complexity wise it's closer to the Tiger than the Hornet or Viper, especially considering all the work they already did and data they already have, while at the same time it's a much more attractive product.

 

The sales to man-hours ratio seems to be why they keep releasing WW2 fighters. I don't think anybody believes these sell nearly as well as the Hornets and Vipers do, especially considering the competition, but they're easy enough to still be worth it.

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1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Based on?

I think its based on what certain ED people have said for some time that when they looked at the sales of MiG-15s vs F-86s and UH-1s vs Mi-8s the US ones out sold their Russian counterparts. This led them to think Redfor modules would not sell as well.

 

Though over time, I've learned one thing is that ED has lots of double talk and lies often.

If there truly was no money in Redfor why is it that at one point in 2014~2012 iirc they tried to do a Su-27SM1 and later a Su-27S?

Why did they try to do a more modern upgrade for the Ka-50?

Why are they trying to do a MiG-29A and Hind?

 

It shows they like Russian money just as much as they like American money.

But they have those legal handicaps preventing them from making what they know the community want regardless props to them trying to get as close to it as possible.

 

If OP would like a more modern redfor fast jet or attack helicopter its best to ask Deka for it they might just make something like a Su-30MKK or Z-9 if we're lucky

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15 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

If OP would like a more modern redfor fast jet or attack helicopter its best to ask Deka for it they might just make something like a Su-30MKK or Z-9 if we're lucky

 

It's BS. We asked DEKA about similar plane, the answer is We can safely forget about it, it's classified and impossible to model. The answer is here on DEKA subforum, you can read if you want.

 

Not making Su-30MKK or similar plane because they don't want to is just a QAnon level conspiracy theory.

 

And the last update, when ED stated they invested in BS3 but they're forced to stop it due to year another even more restrictive Russian law it the ultimate proof ED was trying to do their absolute best to make some close to modern Russian module but it's impossible and they had been punished for trying to much.

 

They lost the time invested in BS3, they lost the profit of selling it, but they tried their best. Accusing ED of not making close to modern Russian module is simply a bad will.


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2 minutes ago, bies said:

 

It's BS. They asked DEKA about similar plane, the answer is We can safely forget about it, it's classified and impossible to model. The answer is here on DEKA subforum, you can read if you want.

 

Not making Su-30MKK or similar plane because they don't want to is just a QAnon level conspiracy theory.

 

And the last update, when ED stated they invested in BS3 but we're forced to stop it due to year another even more restrictive Russian law it the ultimate proof ED was trying to do their absolute best to make some close to modern Russian module but it's impossible.

 

They lost time invested in BS3, they lost the profit of selling it, but they tried their best. Accusing ED of not making close to modern Russian module is simply a bad will.

Are you sure about that?

Deka has said they're debating internal whether to do the MKK or not.

I'm also not sure what your far right politics has to do with future DCS modules but please keep that to yourself.

 

You really should brush up on your English before make such pointed and baseless accusations, and before you use sources that actually work against your argument.

It only makes you look like a fool.

 

No where did I say it was a lack of wanting, my post acknowledged that in reality they had tried but restrictive laws had hampered any effort to make those modules.

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5 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

It only makes you look like a fool.

 

You have chosen to attack me personally instead of my argument.

Quote

Ad hominem means “against the man,” and this type of fallacy is sometimes called name calling or the personal attack fallacy. This type of fallacy occurs when someone attacks the person instead of attacking his or her argument.

 

I wrote about QAnon conspiracy theory in negative context yet you still intentionally sad "your far right politics" to show me in a bad light attacking me instead of the argument.

 

Than you attacked my non native English language grammar mistake.

And than you stated i look like a fool. I don't think I look like a fool writing in a middle of a night on my phone in non native language making some grammar mistake on an international forum where some half of the users regularly make linguistic mistakes.

 

Sorry but I'm not going to get down to your level and attack you ad hominem. Have a nice day.

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1 minute ago, bies said:

 

You have chosen to attack me personally instead of my argument.

 

I wrote about QAnon conspiracy theory in negative context yet you still intentionally sad "your far right politics" to show me in a bad light attacking me instead of the argument.

 

Than you attacked my non native English language grammar mistake.

And than you stated i look like a fool. I don't think I look like a fool writing in a middle of a night on my phone in non native language making some grammar mistake on an international forum where some half of the users regularly make linguistic mistakes.

 

Sorry but I'm not going to get down to your level and attack you ad hominem. Have a nice day.

That is hardly a grammar mistake.

You did not interpret correctly what I wrote.

 

And that was more an equally pointed sugestion for you to improve your reading comprehension.

Don't be surprised when people respond to your rude outburst in kind.

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This thread is done, It is not constructive and it is misleading. 

 

Our team have shared with everyone that we very much want to do the Mig-29, as soon as we have more information we will share it with you all. 

 

thanks

 

 

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