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MiG-23 MLA what is it's planned weapons capabilities?


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On 5/25/2021 at 4:07 PM, Harlikwin said:

Its gonna have 

R60M's

R23R/T

R24R/T

 

And then AG ordnance.

 

As long as I can do a bit of everything... While I doubt it will have TV guided bombs or rockets and no laser guided weapons... Because that is what the MiG-27 is for.  

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On 5/25/2021 at 10:05 AM, TotenDead said:

R-23 capabilities from MiG-23 manual
Yes-yes, video is made for WT, but it still can be useful

 

 

 

Interesting numbers. Like example R-60 has 35 degrees per second tracking when AIM-9J has only 16.5 degrees per second, telling a lot about how agile the R-60 is.

The range values shows that R-23 and R-24 are matching the performance that AIM-7 offers, and offering the "silent attack" capability with the IRST makes it great option for stealthy approaches with support of gci. 

 R-24 having full 2 seconds longer burn time gives nice advantage to intercept AIM-7 launcher sooner and so on save itself if challenging. 

As well that +/- 1.3 degree seeker FOV makes things interesting considering flare behavior, as if you get it to track flare and not find the fighter anymore, missile will get lost. But same time missile doesn't see flares so easily further distance from the target. 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Hodo said:

As long as I can do a bit of everything... While I doubt it will have TV guided bombs or rockets and no laser guided weapons... Because that is what the MiG-27 is for.  

 

I think it will have Kh-23's for guided, but I think mostly dumb weapons otherwise, unless we get a BN variant. 

 

I mean really, in terms of capabilities weapons wise, just take a look at the 29 which is very similar just rename a few missiles. 

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14 hours ago, Hodo said:

While I doubt it will have TV guided bombs or rockets and no laser guided weapons... Because that is what the MiG-27 is for.  

I would think S-5s, probably S-8s too, and 250kg dumb/cluster bombs. I hear it will also get Kh-23 manually guided missile.

 

Edit: I wouldn't expect anything other than being a novelty from Kh-23 though. Same deal as Rb 05A on the Viggen, I find this guidance even less practical than "guide it with the whole plane" kinda deal as in MiG-21 + Kh-66, at least so in DCS. Also some aircraft needed a guidance pod for this missile I think, but I also recall some MiG-23 versions having it integrated in a small fairing on one of the wing gloves. Don't know which one will be the case with MLA we are getting.


Edited by WinterH

Modules:

MiG-21Bis, Fw-190D, Bf-109K, P-51D, F-86F, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Hawk T1A, C-101, FC3, A-10C, CA, Mirage 2000C, Gazelle, L-39, MiG-15Bis, F-5E, AJS 37 Viggen, Yak-52, Christen Eagle II, MiG-19, I-16, JF-17, F-14, F/A-18C, Fw-190A8, AV-8B/NA, Spitifre IX

 

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8 hours ago, WinterH said:

I would think S-5s, probably S-8s too, and 250kg dumb/cluster bombs. I hear it will also get Kh-23 manually guided missile.

 

Edit: I wouldn't expect anything other than being a novelty from Kh-23 though. Same deal as Rb 05A on the Viggen, I find this guidance even less practical than "guide it with the whole plane" kinda deal as in MiG-21 + Kh-66, at least so in DCS. Also some aircraft needed a guidance pod for this missile I think, but I also recall some MiG-23 versions having it integrated in a small fairing on one of the wing gloves. Don't know which one will be the case with MLA we are getting.

 

 

I yeah pretty sure on S-5/S-8 other unguided stuff.
 

My foggy memory of how the GROM on the 23 works that you basically steer the hud cursor onto the target and hold it there till it hits, so more like SACLOS rather than MCLOS (i.e. how the AS10 works on the Su25A, not sure if its stabilized like that though). The Mig21 mode for it doesn't really work correctly true to RL from what I've been told, and even then in that case its pretty specious that our 21 even has it. 


Edited by Harlikwin

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Just now, Harlikwin said:

 

My understanding on the GROM on the 23 is that you basically steer the hud cursor onto the target and hold it there till it hits, so more like SACLOS rather than MCLOS (i.e. how the AS10 works on the Su25A, not sure if its stabilized like that though). The Mig21 mode for it doesn't really work correctly true to RL from what I've been told, and even then in that case its pretty specious that it even has it. 

I think does mostly work correctish on MiG-21 apart from it not really belonging on the Bis variant at all. If 23 works like that indeed, I'd be happy to see that. But I think it really worked more akin to Bullpup and RB 05A: pilot basically steered the missile. Which is a method I never could come to enjoy 😛

Modules:

MiG-21Bis, Fw-190D, Bf-109K, P-51D, F-86F, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Hawk T1A, C-101, FC3, A-10C, CA, Mirage 2000C, Gazelle, L-39, MiG-15Bis, F-5E, AJS 37 Viggen, Yak-52, Christen Eagle II, MiG-19, I-16, JF-17, F-14, F/A-18C, Fw-190A8, AV-8B/NA, Spitifre IX

 

Mods:

A-4E, MB-339, Edge 540

 

Utility modules:

Combined Arms, NS 430 GPS

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24 minutes ago, WinterH said:

I think does mostly work correctish on MiG-21 apart from it not really belonging on the Bis variant at all. If 23 works like that indeed, I'd be happy to see that. But I think it really worked more akin to Bullpup and RB 05A: pilot basically steered the missile. Which is a method I never could come to enjoy 😛

 

No you can't "lock" or stabilize it on the 21 which ours does IIRC from what I've heard from people who know way more about it than I do. Similarly IIRC (I might not) for the 23/grom, the ASP has "cursor" you put on the target and hold there and the missile goes there but you have to hold the cursor on tgt as its not stabilized.

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26 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

No you can't "lock" or stabilize it on the 21 which ours does IIRC from what I've heard from people who know way more about it than I do.

Yeah that one I've always been suspicious of but never seen it conclusively debunked. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say "therefore it must be correct", like said, it seemed iffy to me too.

 

But I almost never used it with ground lock since the beginning. To me guiding wherever the plane points method always been the better choice. But even then, I think it is probably too accurate in DCS, that's the part that I mean with "correctish". I am not sure those old radar beams would still be sharp/coherent at those distances. But that's just a gut feeling on my part, rather than knowledge.

That said, the method of "point the plane to point the missile" is how it worked indeed as far as I know. And I personally prefer even that guidance method over the "let's fly a missile while flying a plane, in separate directions" method 😛

 

Do you have sources for Kh-23 or Kh-23M being guided similarly to later Kh-25? I'd be rather happy if that's really possible in MiG-23 TBH!

Modules:

MiG-21Bis, Fw-190D, Bf-109K, P-51D, F-86F, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Hawk T1A, C-101, FC3, A-10C, CA, Mirage 2000C, Gazelle, L-39, MiG-15Bis, F-5E, AJS 37 Viggen, Yak-52, Christen Eagle II, MiG-19, I-16, JF-17, F-14, F/A-18C, Fw-190A8, AV-8B/NA, Spitifre IX

 

Mods:

A-4E, MB-339, Edge 540

 

Utility modules:

Combined Arms, NS 430 GPS

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32 minutes ago, WinterH said:

Yeah that one I've always been suspicious of but never seen it conclusively debunked. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say "therefore it must be correct", like said, it seemed iffy to me too.

 

But I almost never used it with ground lock since the beginning. To me guiding wherever the plane points method always been the better choice. But even then, I think it is probably too accurate in DCS, that's the part that I mean with "correctish". I am not sure those old radar beams would still be sharp/coherent at those distances. But that's just a gut feeling on my part, rather than knowledge.

That said, the method of "point the plane to point the missile" is how it worked indeed as far as I know. And I personally prefer even that guidance method over the "let's fly a missile while flying a plane, in separate directions" method 😛

 

Do you have sources for Kh-23 or Kh-23M being guided similarly to later Kh-25? I'd be rather happy if that's really possible in MiG-23 TBH!

 

There was discord discussion with the dev a few months ago and thats roughly how he explained it, unless I misinterpreted what he was saying. IIRC that is what the cuban migs in Angola used at some point.


Edited by Harlikwin

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Well, followed up that conversation on the KH23, turns out its MCLOS, though the later ones were stabilized. They were however SACLOS on the Su-24. 

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