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Update - Checking interest on DCS: IADS (Integrated Air Defense Network) - Part 2


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Outstanding! This is desperately needed. Real Russian SAM systems, and SAM operators, are the finest in the world and far more threatening than most players of DCS have come to appreciate. Truly threatening SAM systems with more realistic behavior and capabilities will make DCS a superior simulation, and will be needed for any future Dynamic Campaign anyway.

This is exciting news. For what it's worth, I send my thanks to the team and especially to everyone who pushed this idea.

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As a follow up to their initial post found here, they wanted to update you on where they are at right now. Hello everyone!   We have been closely monitoring the poll and all your feedback

Fancy clouds are great, but EW simulation is the next real step to improving the sim and would distinguish it well above other flight sim competitors.     

I play DCS exclusively in VR now. Please make sure any operator stations and interfaces for modules like this function in VR.

I do hope that at least the AI component will be available (if not controllable) in the core game. Whether I'll buy the full IADS module depends on what it actually does, but the EW itself, most notably aircraft jammers, shouldn't be paywalled as to avoid saddling module developers with having to account for whether someone has the module or not. 

 

Remember the KISS principle. All module-side functionality should be in the module. A pile of interdependent features with unclear responsibility is not the way to go.

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Like many people on this thread, my take is:

  • A fully implemented IADS would be an enormous step forward for DCS in both SP and MP
  • I have no issue at all with giving ED and partners my money for good content
  • Implementing something as foundational as IADS as an optional extra feels really wrong to me, in the same way that having AI or ATC or weather as optional extras would feel very weird and wrong

I 100% understand and support the need for revenue, but I also feel that the sandbox's core features should be part of the core. 

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On 1/18/2021 at 9:34 AM, flankerjun said:

SEAD will be more difficult,i think i will be shooted down

通过我的 V1955A 上的 Tapatalk发言
 

 

I guess we'll need to learn to do SEAD/DEAD like they do in the real world, down low, using terrain masking, hunter-killer teams, and we really need the HTS for the F-16C.

 

 

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Hi All.

This sounds like it would be an interesting addition to the SIM, presumabably this would also need working IFF systems on the aircraft to reduce blue on blue incidents.

Keep up the good work.

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On 1/18/2021 at 10:50 AM, QuiGon said:

...

 

I'm just a bit worried about the performance impact of all those IADS computations.

It will be the end of MP for sure. Mark my words. 

ED and 3rdy not care anymore about performance impact, synchronisation all that stuff in MP, etc... And at the end - everything is EA (excuse). So, end user if want to stay (play) must have money for additional hardware or even with new hardware cry becasue of bad performance. We slowlly will need mining rig farms to play DCS.
 


Edited by Falcon_S
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Sounds great. It will not divide the playerbase, since everyone will be able to join a mission and even set up basic IADS networks themselves. And module owners get access to additional tools and functionalities. Definitely interested in this.

And we get improved EW simulation. Everyone wins.

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This sounds awesome, and I would totally buy it. 

 

One big question though:

On 1/17/2021 at 11:17 PM, NineLine said:
  • Mission Editor enhanced functions:
    • Radar coverage computation and display
    • Radar placement recommendation (depending on the type)
    • Definition and prioritization of defended objects
    • Anticipated air attack directions
    • No-fire sectors/areas

How would it work if a mission builder who owns the module creates a mission with these features and a player who does not own the module plays it?

 

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On 1/22/2021 at 8:31 AM, Bunny Clark said:

This sounds awesome, and I would totally buy it. 

 

One big question though:

How would it work if a mission builder who owns the module creates a mission with these features and a player who does not own the module plays it?

 

As these are all mission editor functions, I would imagine editing and creating them would be locked to the player, but the IADS would still respond as normal to non-owners, just they won't be able to edit the parameters themselves.

 

EDIT: Nope, it seems that creating and editing the IADS will be a core improvement, but some enhanced functionality is going to be locked.


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1 hour ago, hotrod525 said:

I'd buy it just for the Intelligence sensors ! 😄

 

Yeah about those, are we going to get actual ELINT assets for them? Rivet Joint or equivalent?


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Very keen for all of this!!

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I would buy that day one. Looking at the feature set, I'd like to suggest the ability to set the engagement parameters based on the type of target. For instance, I might want to have different floor and ceiling, or even no-engagement zones, for airbreathing aircrafts and ballistic targets.

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For a while now, I've been studying ways to implement credible EW interference (jamming) simulation, not relying on the (non-existent) EW DCS platforms. My idea was to create special triggers and conditions to allow a "jamming" simulation to aerial and ground stations, attempting to emulate a proper EW platform to effectively create a radar/radio blocking in a certain area. Although you can create some conditions, like turning off radar capabilities using trigger (not the same as jamming, but close enough), it's hard to make those triggers realistic with human players.

 

Though I know EW is only a part of this project, the rest is also very interesting, giving us the capability to operate air defences in a more "hands on" approach, rather than dropping a few SAMs here and there. I would love to see the integration of an AWACS station too.

 

So, regarding this project, not only would I be on board, I would also volunteer to help if there's need of volunteers to test this IADS project.

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I am still missing any info on if and how it will incorporate interceptors. SAMs are only part of an IADS and until now AI GCI is laughable at best, even while having modules of aircraft which heavily rely on ground control. If this is only to create a more realistic SAM target for the F-16/F-18, I have no interest in it at all.

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3 hours ago, Jonne said:

I am still missing any info on if and how it will incorporate interceptors. SAMs are only part of an IADS and until now AI GCI is laughable at best, even while having modules of aircraft which heavily rely on ground control. If this is only to create a more realistic SAM target for the F-16/F-18, I have no interest in it at all.

 

Exactly, MiG-19P, MiG-21bis, MiG-23MLA, MiG-29A - all would benefit greatly from GCI API, but i think it's more of an ED to make some, even rudimentary, GCI API, not for 3rd party.

API made by ED would be a lot more uniform to be used by different interceptors.

But this 3rd party project also may include something like that.

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I really hope it does include something, but as nothing has been mentioned, I highly doubt it.

 

But I just cannot see the MiG-23 happening without GCI link incorporated. So something must be in the making, by whomever that is.

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Some years ago, there was a excellent website about Serbian SAM and Counter-SEAD tactics here:

http://peters-ada.de/yogo1999.htm

 

Unfortunately, the site is gone. Maybe someone saved it, it was most in German.

Here is a PDF from the website: https://pingpdf.com/pdf-jogoslawien-99-peters-ada.html

 

Some of the most interessting things, I read there were about Radar reflectors and where they placed them to lure HARMs. Here a cutout of the text, I found so far:

"the radio measuring sight of the MIG 21 was set to the transmission frequencies of the SA3
(9 GHz). At a distance of a few 100 to 1000 m. After
The shear adjustment was optimized after initial failures.
14 ARMs were shot at this dummy within 30 days.
Corner reflectors were set up in the vicinity of the fire department
(300 m) So 8 HARM were started unsuccessfully on the RBS P15. Ever
Fire unit had 2 active settings and 2 groups
Corner reflectors are set up. Probably even were
Microwaves set up as decoy targets. "

 

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Some years ago, there was a excellent website about Serbian SAM and Counter-SEAD tactics here:
http://peters-ada.de/yogo1999.htm
 
Unfortunately, the site is gone. Maybe someone saved it, it was most in German.
Here is a PDF from the website: https://pingpdf.com/pdf-jogoslawien-99-peters-ada.html
 
Some of the most interessting things, I read there were about Radar reflectors and where they placed them to lure HARMs. Here a cutout of the text, I found so far:
"the radio measuring sight of the MIG 21 was set to the transmission frequencies of the SA3(9 GHz). At a distance of a few 100 to 1000 m. AfterThe shear adjustment was optimized after initial failures.14 ARMs were shot at this dummy within 30 days.Corner reflectors were set up in the vicinity of the fire department(300 m) So 8 HARM were started unsuccessfully on the RBS P15. EverFire unit had 2 active settings and 2 groupsCorner reflectors are set up. Probably even wereMicrowaves set up as decoy targets. "

 

Here's the internet archive snapshot

https://web.archive.org/web/20160331164033/http://peters-ada.de/yogo1999.htm



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