Couple Questions on Hornet - Velocity Vector and Master Caution

[dburne]

Hey gang,

Had taken a break from my Hornet training for a while, got frustrated after learning Nav stuff and trying to learn the weapons.  Got some new controllers, and went in and got them set up in DCS so thought I would re-visit the Hornet for a little bit.

 

Been having fun just taking off from Super Carrier and flying around in the Persian Gulf, and returning to land on Super Carrier.

 

Couple of probably dumb questions:

I notice the Velocity Vector - seems like it used to when centered on the HUD level line, the plane would fly without gaining/losing altitude. Now that does not seem to be the case, often the velocity vector will be a little below the centerline yet still be gaining altitude.? Just wondering why this is? Or maybe I am losing my mind LOL.

 

Master Caution - every time I do cold start mission on the Roosevelt, taxi to catapult and launch. When I am instructed to run the engines up and I do so, the Master Caution always comes on. Is this normal behaviour?

 

And lastly, when I am setting up and landing on the carrier, the pipper in the Hud is always flashing. Is that supposed to be that way?

 

Thanks for any feedback on this,

[BIGNEWY]

Hi,

 

I will try to reply to the questions 

 

1- I have never seen the aircraft gain alt with TVV below horizon

2- Yes

3- Yes, if TVV true location is off HUD Fov

 

It maybe best to include track replays for each issue so we can take a closer look. 

 

thanks 

 

 

 

 

[Foka]

21 hours ago, dburne said:

Master Caution - every time I do cold start mission on the Roosevelt, taxi to catapult and launch. When I am instructed to run the engines up and I do so, the Master Caution always comes on. Is this normal behaviour?

Usually on left DDI you'll have message about the cause. Probably it will be unlocked wings or flaps (or trim) not set up for take off.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Foka

[dorianR666]

51 minutes ago, dburne said:

When I am instructed to run the engines up and I do so, the Master Caution always comes on. Is this normal behaviour?

 

you forgot to set trim probably.

[dburne]

39 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi,

 

I will try to reply to the questions 

 

1- I have never seen the aircraft gain alt with TVV below horizon

2- Yes

3- Yes, if TVV true location is off HUD Fov

 

It maybe best to include track replays for each issue so we can take a closer look. 

 

thanks 

 

 

Ok thanks for the reply. 1 and 3 sound a bit odd to me then.  In the case of 1 I can see the aircraft gaining altitude with the TVV below the horizon line. And in case of 3 I can see the true location of TVV is not off the HUD FOV, yet it is constantly flashing.

 

I will see about getting a track of each.

2 minutes ago, dorianR666 said:

 

you forgot to set trim probably.

 

OK, normally I just press the takeoff trim button to set it. That must be it. Never have a problem launching though this way. Just that annoying master caution lol.

[Stearmandriver]

Check your wings too.  After you spread them, you have to push the handle forward (forward mouse scroll wheel) to lock them.

 

But really, take a look at the message on the left DDI and then we won't have to guess ;).

[Bunny Clark]

3 hours ago, dburne said:

And lastly, when I am setting up and landing on the carrier, the pipper in the Hud is always flashing. Is that supposed to be that way?

If you're talking about the AoA Indexer that's just to the side of the HUD, flashing means your tailhook is not deployed. 

 

2 hours ago, dburne said:

OK, normally I just press the takeoff trim button to set it. That must be it. Never have a problem launching though this way. Just that annoying master caution lol.

Yup, pressing the T/O TRIM button resets the trim to 12° nose up, which is correct for an airfield takeoff. From the boat you need to adjust trim beyond that based on your takeoff weight. If you don't you'll get a "CHECK TRIM" advisory on the left DDI along with a Master Caution. 

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Check your wings too.  After you spread them, you have to push the handle forward (forward mouse scroll wheel) to lock them.

 

But really, take a look at the message on the left DDI and then we won't have to guess ;).

 

Yes I do lock them, will take a look at the message thanks.

1 hour ago, Bunny Clark said:

If you're talking about the AoA Indexer that's just to the side of the HUD, flashing means your tailhook is not deployed. 

 

Yup, pressing the T/O TRIM button resets the trim to 12° nose up, which is correct for an airfield takeoff. From the boat you need to adjust trim beyond that based on your takeoff weight. If you don't you'll get a "CHECK TRIM" advisory on the left DDI along with a Master Caution. 

 

No the velocity vector I believe it is called, in the center. Sometimes a little offset due to wind I think.   I don't think I recall it constantly flashing previously, but now it sure does when landing on carrier.

I will definitely start adjusting my trim thanks. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by dburne

[Scaley]

The velocity vector will flash if the true position of the vector is outside the HUD field of view.  The flashing is basically telling you that the position displayed on the HUD isn't truly accurate, and it's showing you the best it can at the edge of the HUD nearest where it really wants to be.  You'll see that constantly if you have a strong crosswind, or during your base turn in the carrier pattern due to significant sideslip at on-speed AOA and 30° of bank.  

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Scaley said:

The velocity vector will flash if the true position of the vector is outside the HUD field of view.  The flashing is basically telling you that the position displayed on the HUD isn't truly accurate, and it's showing you the best it can at the edge of the HUD nearest where it really wants to be.  You'll see that constantly if you have a strong crosswind, or during your base turn in the carrier pattern due to significant sideslip at on-speed AOA and 30° of bank.  

 

Thanks for the feedback, yeah I know previously back when I was working with the Hornet that was the case.

But now for whatever reason it is constantly flashing on my carrier landings and I do not believe it is for the above reasons.

Going to do a repair of DCS and try it out again little later this morning.

[kengou]

I see no reason the velocity vector should flash constantly without a really good reason, as Scaley stated. If you're flying straight and level it shouldn't flash.

 

The velocity vector should never be below the horizon if you're climbing, also. That makes zero sense. Could this be INS alignment issues if you are cold-starting?

[dburne]

35 minutes ago, kengou said:

I see no reason the velocity vector should flash constantly without a really good reason, as Scaley stated. If you're flying straight and level it shouldn't flash.

 

The velocity vector should never be below the horizon if you're climbing, also. That makes zero sense. Could this be INS alignment issues if you are cold-starting?

 

I honestly have no idea. I use Chuck's guide for starting the Hornet, same as I have always done.  It was not like this before, I took a several week break from it and upon resuming it is now doing this.

I did a thorough repair/cleanup of DCS and will be trying it again here shortly.

 

If it still does this, I will try an auto-start rather than manual start and see if that makes a difference.

Edited January 18, 2021 by dburne

[dorianR666]

why dont you post a track

[dburne]

Just tried it again after a thorough Repair using SkateZillla's tool, still doing the same thing.

Crazy - at full mil power I have to put the Velocity Vector a degree or so below centerline for level flight.

The slower I go the further I have to adjust it down for that. Landing approach about 2-2.5 degrees below Velocity Vector to be not climbing or descending.  Once I drop Hook, Gear, and Flaps the Velocity Vector starts flashing and stays flashing. Uncaged or not, it constantly flashes. And it is not outside the HUD FOV at all, not even close. I am doing all this in the Hornet Supercarrier cold start mission in the Gulf.

 

I am doing this exactly as I had previously done this before, been a few weeks ago though. No idea what might have changed on my end.

 

I forgot to save a track, will try again shortly and make it a shorter flight and save a track.

[dburne]

Ok I know it is not DCS now.

I just did the same cold start mission in the Hornet, however I chose to auto start rather than manually start it up.

Everything worked swimmingly, the two issues ( flashing Velocity Vector and climbing when it was below center line) were not present.

 

So apparently it is something I am doing or missing in the cold start procedure, however I am doing it exactly as I used to per Chuck's guide.

Seems as maybe something might have changed in the procedure over last three months or so.

Going to go make sure I have latest documentation and compare to what I have been doing.

 

Thanks all for the suggestions and help, at least now I know it is me and not the sim. So now if I can find out what I am missing and learn how to trim the thing for take off from the carrier I will be golden and finally progress to learning how to blow stuff up.

[dburne]

Ok got it figured out!

Found a more recent Chuck's Guide on the Hornet ( Dec I believe) and there has been a change in it regarding start up procedure on carrier.

 

 

INS
CARRIER ( ALIGNMENT PROCEDURE
You
can either use a Normal alignment (takes roughly 8 minutes) or a Stored Heading alignment
(takes roughly 90 seconds), which results in a quicker alignment
a)
If on an aircraft carrier, set INS Selector switch to CV INS ( to start the INS alignment
phase With CV mode, the alignment will take its positional data directly from the carrier via a
SINS (Ship Inertial Navigation System) cable or a datalink radio frequency, which is already set up
b)
If you wish to use a Stored Heading, press the DDI button next to STD HDG then the stored
heading alignment will proceed and last for approx 90 seconds Otherwise, the normal alignment
will proceed and last for 8 minutes
c)
The alignment will take a few seconds to start You can monitor the INS (Inertial Navigation
System) Ground Alignment progress on the AMPCD The GRND QUAL timer displays the time
remaining in seconds
d)
Once OK appears next to GRND QUAL, the INS alignment is complete
e)
Set the INS selector to INS IFA (In Flight Alignment) if a GPS is available (any mission set during
1986 or later should have it) POS/AINS mode ( Assisted INS) will be visible on the HSI
(Horizontal Situation Indicator), meaning that the GPS is used in conjunction with INS to provide
the position of the aircraft
f)
If no GPS is available (mission set before 1986 set INS selector to NAV instead

 

The two parts in bold are what I was not doing. Previously at this stage I would move the Selector to Nav.

This time I did cold start per the above instructions for carrier, and all went great no issue on the Velocity Vector or it flashing constantly on landing.

 

Now to get trim down-pat, and off to learn how to deploy some weapons hopefully.

Thanks again to all for the feedback!

Edited January 18, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

Woohoo, finally after over 100 hours in the Hornet, I can take off from the Supercarrier without that dang Master Caution blaring at me!

I am so grateful!

 

Now if I could ever learn how to deploy weapons and actually fight in this thing, ideally in a campaign, I would be one very happy camper!  I start trying to learn it, get frustrated and move on to another game for a while, then come back and try some more. I never seem to be able to quite get there. 

 

[CBStu]

There are 5 missions in the Caucuses map that I enjoy. They all start from the carrier w/ the plane already running. I quite often hit R to rearm so I can have 9X's vs 9Ms and 120c's vs 7s and chose a bomb or ground missle I know how to use. Look for 'Combat Mission-Hornet 1989'xxxxxx. They are fairly simple missions that I really enjoy and I usually go back to the Stennis to land. If you look under campaigns the 'Hornet 1989-Task Force Challenger' uses these missions w/ a few mods. Also I have my screen set up so I have the usual windows buttons across the bottom of the screen still visible when DCS is running. When I try something new, I quite often pause DCS, and then open Chucks Guide or go to youtube for a tutorial to help me set up my new missile or whatever. Sometimes I may pause DCS 4-5-6 times to do a couple steps, pause to check my tutorial, unpause and do more steps. 

[dburne]

9 hours ago, CBStu said:

There are 5 missions in the Caucuses map that I enjoy. They all start from the carrier w/ the plane already running. I quite often hit R to rearm so I can have 9X's vs 9Ms and 120c's vs 7s and chose a bomb or ground missle I know how to use. Look for 'Combat Mission-Hornet 1989'xxxxxx. They are fairly simple missions that I really enjoy and I usually go back to the Stennis to land. If you look under campaigns the 'Hornet 1989-Task Force Challenger' uses these missions w/ a few mods. Also I have my screen set up so I have the usual windows buttons across the bottom of the screen still visible when DCS is running. When I try something new, I quite often pause DCS, and then open Chucks Guide or go to youtube for a tutorial to help me set up my new missile or whatever. Sometimes I may pause DCS 4-5-6 times to do a couple steps, pause to check my tutorial, unpause and do more steps. 

 

 

Thanks much for the tip, I will try it out.

I have a custom kneeboard set up with Kneeboard Builder, and I have Chuck's Guides segmented off into sections with a custom kneeboard for each relevant section. Like the start up routine, I can open it in the Kneeboard whilst in VR and have it displayed above my dash so I can reference to it as needed. I can certainly do the same with the weapons also, I just feel overwhelmed with them and not sure best way for me to learn.

 

It does not help in that I now have memory issues also, especially short term, so I have to really do this stuff over and over and over to start to get the jist of it.

 

The above sounds like may be a good place for me to start, with Chuck's section on Weapons on my Kneeboard in VR and using those missions.

Thanks much for the guidance, that is what I was hoping for - sounds like a good way for me to get moving on this part of learning the Hornet.

 

[CBStu]

I am retired and I have been flying the FA-18 for 2 years now and still have a ton to learn. One thing to note is that DCS itself isn't perfect so you can frustrate yourself no end and then find it's a bug or something. One training mission for a JSOW, I think, has you flying toward the target which is a SAM and which is shooting at you. Those dang SAMs can shoot down the JSOW as well as you so, after a quick question here, I decided to skip that one altogether. Recently I have been flying a mission where the plane has the target pod. I can see it in F2 view and it shows up on the stores diagram. But there is no FLIR button to click to get it fired up. ( I had to go to CHuck's to verify how to use the pod because that is another piece I haven't gotten good w/ yet) It is mounted centerline but it can't be dropped either. So I shoot the MAVs using their own camera system. Oh, and I haven't figured out laser MAVs yet, so I hit R and rearm the laser MAVs w/ MAV Fs. One other skill that is handy is being able to create your own basic mission. I had done a couple and when I decided to skip that JSOW mission I set up my own mission. Close to the same location but I set up 4 tanks as targets and set waypoints to match them. Then I put 2 JSOWS, 2 GBU38s on the plane. Now I can practice using the JSOWS etc w/o anyone shooting at me. Once I had the basic mission set up, I could go back and change the armament and do a 'Save As' so I have 3 versions now w/ different arms on the plane.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, CBStu said:

I am retired and I have been flying the FA-18 for 2 years now and still have a ton to learn. One thing to note is that DCS itself isn't perfect so you can frustrate yourself no end and then find it's a bug or something. One training mission for a JSOW, I think, has you flying toward the target which is a SAM and which is shooting at you. Those dang SAMs can shoot down the JSOW as well as you so, after a quick question here, I decided to skip that one altogether. Recently I have been flying a mission where the plane has the target pod. I can see it in F2 view and it shows up on the stores diagram. But there is no FLIR button to click to get it fired up. ( I had to go to CHuck's to verify how to use the pod because that is another piece I haven't gotten good w/ yet) It is mounted centerline but it can't be dropped either. So I shoot the MAVs using their own camera system. Oh, and I haven't figured out laser MAVs yet, so I hit R and rearm the laser MAVs w/ MAV Fs. One other skill that is handy is being able to create your own basic mission. I had done a couple and when I decided to skip that JSOW mission I set up my own mission. Close to the same location but I set up 4 tanks as targets and set waypoints to match them. Then I put 2 JSOWS, 2 GBU38s on the plane. Now I can practice using the JSOWS etc w/o anyone shooting at me. Once I had the basic mission set up, I could go back and change the armament and do a 'Save As' so I have 3 versions now w/ different arms on the plane.

 

Thanks for the great feedback!

I have my Kneeboard all sorted now for the different weapons sections and am about to get started.

Yes I need to learn how to create a basic mission , just to use with no enemy shooting back at me to learn how to use all these weapons.

It all still seems a bit overwhelming, but I am determined to take one thing at a time and do it over and over till it sinks in.

At least that is my plan.

 

Just did a cold start on Super Carrier, taxi and takeoff. Flew around the Gulf for a bit, then set my tacan and ILS for the carrier , returned and made a good landing. It is definitely time for me to learn some weapons now.

 

Thanks again,

Edited January 21, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

Woohoo, I am starting to shoot some planes down!! Yay!

Thanks again!

[Stearmandriver]

Nice! 

 

It's funny, the naval aviation aspect is really what brought me to DCS.  All I really wanted to do was fly jets on and off of carriers as realistically as possible.  Flying missions initially was more of an excuse to leave the boat and come back.  But naturally I had to learn to use some weapons.  Then I got sick of getting shot down so I had to learn some tactics.  And then it all became a fun puzzle, and so here I am.

 

It's a rabbit hole, for sure .

[rob10]

10 hours ago, CBStu said:

 I can see it in F2 view and it shows up on the stores diagram. But there is no FLIR button to click to get it fired up. ( I had to go to CHuck's to verify how to use the pod because that is another piece I haven't gotten good w/ yet) It is mounted centerline but it can't be dropped either.

Have you set the FLIR switch on the right side of your seat to "ON"?  The FLIR button option on the DDI won't show up if it's not turned ON.

[Tholozor]

45 minutes ago, rob10 said:

Have you set the FLIR switch on the right side of your seat to "ON"?  The FLIR button option on the DDI won't show up if it's not turned ON.

Should appear with the switch in STBY as well.