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End of support Windows 7


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Is only logical and timely that Windoof 7 is no longer supported by DCS. ED is just one of many who take this step. The one who can't see or understand that and therefore doesn't want to play DCS anymore ... Falcon BMS can still run on Windows Vista.

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DCS World needs the Panavia Tornado! Really!

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10 hours ago, Hegemon12 said:

ED, should finish all current "Early access" modules for Windows 7 users, these people spend full amount for these products.

Sell early access product ED should take responsible for delivery final product for all buyers.

 

You raise a very interesting point there.

 

One the one hand, I agree that when the product requirements read "Windows 7" at the time the product is sold, then the final version of that product should indeed run on that same required OS.

 

On the other hand, we're talking about Early Access titles, which, by definition, are not feature complete as long as they're in Early Access, and as the software landscape around us changes over time, I think it's only prudent to assume that the program's software requirements are going to change along with it. So we as Early Access customers should take into account that we may be required to upgrade our software while the product goes through the Early Access phase.

 

Anyone not fine with that should not purchase Early Access titles.

 

*****

 

I've been around a while, and like another member, I remember these "Windows $Old is a fantastic operating system, but I'll never ever touch Windows $New, my hand to god, because it's soooooo bad" discussions. Interestingly enough, those were the same guys over and over again, so I guess their principles went down the drain just one generation later than anyone else's (and yes, I'm guilty as charged myself, but I think I realized the stupidity of my argument during round 3, which was the Windows 98 to Windows XP transition in my case 😉).

 

I'm not saying Windows 10 doesn't have serious issues. It does, IMO. And we should make sure to let Microsoft know about our point of view. I just fail to see how Eagle Dynamics are to blame for any of this.

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On 1/16/2021 at 8:49 AM, fil72 said:

This is very bad. I am disappointed. I will never use W10.

I spent $465 for DCS.

Good bye, DCS.

 

 

I have some good news: You don't need to use Windows 10 to continue using DCS!!!

 

The $465 you have spent on DCS can still be used on Windows 7! 

 

DCS are not terminating people from using Windows 7, they are just discontinuing support for windows 7 for future releases of their products. 

 

So there's no need to say good bye to DCS, and you still have exactly what you paid for. It just means that you're best to not buy any new products or upgrade DCS to any new versions with changes they've made that won't support Windows 7.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Yurgon said:

 

You raise a very interesting point there.

 

One the one hand, I agree that when the product requirements read "Windows 7" at the time the product is sold, then the final version of that product should indeed run on that same required OS.

 

On the other hand, we're talking about Early Access titles

 

Actually I don't think being early access is a factor. I think that the minimum requirements should state the expected minimum requirements at completion.

 

I think DCS probably had an overlook here (which we all make mistakes).

 

I don't think it's difficult to resolve either. I certainly don't think the answer is for DCS to hold back development and hinder us until the modules are completed and continue to support Windows 7 for all the outstanding pre-release modules. (Yeah - I want my new clouds which I suspect is part of the change 😉 ).

 

But rather if anyone has been 'caught out' by purchasing a module that they won't be able to use the completion of - contact support and I reckon that ED would probably give them a refund.  

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3.5% of gamers are using Windows 7... your point is?

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On 1/16/2021 at 8:57 PM, Concentric Arc said:

Do you remember when Win7 came out and everyone was bitching about how crappy it was.

At launch yes. Windows 2000 was also very bad for gaming at first: it's why I had a dual boot system win98se/win2000. Then Service Pack 4 arrived and suddenly gaming on Windows 2000 became pretty viable 🙂

Spoiler

Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600MHz CL16 | Gigabyte RX6900XT | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 960Pro NVMe 1TB | HP Reverb G2
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My in-game DCS settings (PD 1.0 SteamSS 76%):

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As someone who used Win7 64-bit since its launch (back in 2009) and absolutely loved it for so long, and tried then hated Win8 and Win8.1, it took me years until giving Win10 a decent go - something I did very relunctatly.

 

Today I can say that it's ok to jump to Win10 even for die-hard Win7 users, and actually now recommend it.

But I'd definitely suggest customizing settings to shut down all the unwanted features, then you have a system that is as lightweight and fuss free as Win7 has been.

 

Fortunately, people now have this customization far easier.

It now takes less than some 5 minutes of your time, to download and open an app to customize such Win10 settings (even be easily reverted), save, reboot, and it's done: 

https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

 

 


Edited by LucShep

1934486534_LMtransparentDCSicons_hs_shdw-5_75pc.png.9c8c611c4d38c056af222a2071df6f01.png:pilotfly:
system specs:

Spoiler

Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 10700KF (all core OC 5.0GHz) | 32GB DDR4 (3466MHz CL16) | RX 5700XT 8GB (@ 2085/1820) | 256GB(OS) + 500GB SSDs | 1TB + 3TB HDDs | 650W PSU (Seasonic 80+Gold)
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Yeah, I loved 7, but times have changed. I'm coming around to 10. DCS has seen a huge leap in performance for me. On 7, the JF-17 had pretty bad stuttering that killed the enjoyment. Now, it's butter smooth. It's also seen smoother performance in titles like ArmA 3.

 

I'm still trying to recover some accounts of mine, but over all? Despite it being a massive PITA, it was worth it. That's before we even get into security, etc.

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Click here to see the updated time until DCS: F-22A

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Yep, I can totally see ED spending resources on porting DCS to Linux, just to capture that extra 2% market share 
 
No need to be an expert, there are a lot of easy to use utilities to debloat Win10, one of the bests is this one:
 
https://christitus.com/debloat-windows-10-2020/
 
 
 
 
Well, when DirectX is finally abandoned in favour of Vulkan, the largest hurdle should already be out of the way.

When that's done I really can't see any reason for Windows exclusivity. But it wouldn't surprise me if the people at ED actually like Windows, seeing as DCS is already Windows only, they are used to Windows, etc.

Then again the VR business might complicate things, with WMR and whatnot.

I, for one, bought a new SSD and a Windows license only for DCS. I'd rather have given ED that money for making a Linux build.

Anyway, I predict one day Windows itself will run on Linux.
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I am sure you can negotiate with ED like you can do with Microsoft. To get a support contract for Windows 7 just requires a viable offer from the customer, right?

Ok, in earnest, MS ended development support for Windows 7 how many years ago?

Keep in mind you can likely still upgrade and run DCS, just ED will no longer fix issues and/or test for compatibility related to Windows 7, at least that is what is usually the meaning of "no longer supported".

So sooner or later you may get to point, where you can't get DCS to start and need to roll back to the previous version and be stuck on that version or need to update your OS.

By the way the Black Shark did support Windows XP, Flaming Cliffs 3 did support Windows Vista...

Shagrat

 

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imagine being security conscious and not having more than one computer

hahaha hey look at me i surely know more about aviation and coding than actual industry professionals hired for their competency because i have read jalopnik and wikipedia i bet theyve never even heard of google LOL

 

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On 1/16/2021 at 10:13 PM, Mustang said:

My guessing is that DCS 2.7.0 will utilise features such as WDDM2.7 or greater and graphics features that just aren't available on the now very aged Windows 7 platform, you only have to look at the newer graphics that have been previewed lately to see this.

 

Yeah, and it just struck me last week, as I finally came back and reinstalled DCS after 6 months of unrelated chores, what if it's all the Driver's fault too, most mainstream games get extra and continued optimization throughout the years, but I think DCS doesn't get much attention from the GPU manufacturers, seeing that Nvidia still detects DCS World as "DCS: Black Shark ..", that may be just the label but that can still be a peek that if the label is outdated, they probably didn't touch that piece of code for a long time, IMO.

 

Which means, many people should actually go to AMD and Nvidia and ask them if they even test DCS at all and if they did any optimizations in the past 5+8 years lol.

 

DX11 is one of those APIs that needs GPU vendor babysitting, Vulkan API on the other hand transfers many responsibilities on the developer of the game so while it's harder and takes more work it allows developers to optimize and fix things themselfs without relying so much on the GPU manufacturer's driver team.


Edited by Worrazen

Getting back in action!

1st.: PC Specs WIP: Win10P 2004 (20H1), 1440p@75"32 - MB: Asus ROG Strix X-570E - CPU: AMD Ryzen ... - GPU: AMD Radeon ... - RAM: 64 GB - SSD: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB NVMe

2nd.: PC Specs: Win10P 2004 (20H1), 1440p@75"32 - MB: Asus P9X79 - CPU: Intel i7 3820 - RAM: 32GB - GPU: AMD Radeon RX480 8GB - SSD Samsung 860 EVO 250GB (DCS), Input: Saitek Cyborg X/FLY5

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP.

Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria.

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On 1/19/2021 at 5:52 PM, SUBS17 said:

128 bit is coming and it is way faster.

32-Bit vs 64-Bit and a hypothetical 128-Bit OS has mostly nothing to do with "speed". It's about the memory address space an OS can handle.

Current x86 64-Bit architecture on PC typically uses 52(?) bits physical memory to handle a theoretical 4 PiB = PepiByte (4*1024^5)...

Currently we use 48-Bit virtual memory to address up to 256 TiB (256*1024^4). Let's say it will likely take a while until we require a switch to a 128-Bit architecture.

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Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 32GB | GeForce RTX 2080S - Acer XB280HK 28" 4k | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | TM Cougar MFDs | a hand made UFC | AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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On 1/19/2021 at 11:13 PM, probad said:

imagine being security conscious and not having more than one computer

Dual boot is your friend. Or Wine, but that has its limitations.

Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two.

Come let's eat grandpa!

Use punctuation, save lives!

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On 1/15/2021 at 9:49 PM, fil72 said:

This is very bad. I am disappointed. I will never use W10.

I spent $465 for DCS.

Good bye, DCS.

 

I know the feeling... Ive spent $1017 on modules over the years.

Even tho we are not being excluded from DCS because we either cannot run/install or refuse to install MicroSuck Bloatware v10

Those early access modules that we paid for, that as it stated at the time of purchase 'Compatible with Windows 7'... We Windows 7 users will not see our modules finished.

That sucks big time that ED moved the goal posts.

 

Fortunately not all devs have this closed view.

CCP have even older software (Eve-online...from 2003) that is still updated to this day and remains Windows 7 compatible.

Rise of flight is another sim of similar age to DCS that is still updated and remains loyal to Windows 7 ... There are plenty of other devs that still support Windows 7 too. I will gladly spend my money with those instead.

I wonder how these devs dont find Windows 7 holding them back?

 

As someone said... Only 3% of users still use Win 7

Whats business in the current climate can afford to turn away 3% of their potential customers?


Edited by Northstar
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2 hours ago, Northstar said:

I know the feeling... Ive spent $1017 on modules over the years.

Even tho we are not being excluded from DCS because we either cannot run/install or refuse to install MicroSuck Bloatware v10

Those early access modules that we paid for, that as it stated at the time of purchase 'Compatible with Windows 7'... We Windows 7 users will not see our modules finished.

That sucks big time that ED moved the goal posts.

 

Fortunately not all devs have this closed view.

CCP have even older software (Eve-online...from 2003) that is still updated to this day and remains Windows 7 compatible.

Rise of flight is another sim of similar age to DCS that is still updated and remains loyal to Windows 7 ... There are plenty of other devs that still support Windows 7 too. I will gladly spend my money with those instead.

I wonder how these devs dont find Windows 7 holding them back?

 

As someone said... Only 3% of users still use Win 7

Whats business in the current climate can afford to turn away 3% of their potential customers?

 

Yes but surely you are not against progress !! Also 3% is a relative number and DCS is not a mainstream product. Lastly how many times have you changed your graphics card? I am sure you didn't say to ED they are changing the goal posts because it said on the box you could play your module on a AMD Radeon HD 6000 series but to run DCS now you need at least Nvidia 1070. My point is, you don't run DCS in it's current form on a computer made 12 years ago do you?, so why does DCS have to keep supporting a 12 year old OS for 3% of it's users when 97% want it to move on ! I would say 3% are the ones that have a 'closed view' and DCS can't afford to lose 97% of it's customer base, very selfish view sorry !!

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