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Is the FM right? This thing is like acrobatic supermaneuverable wonder.


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Real VIggen cant be THAT good, as far as maneuverability. With AKN pod, cannon pod, and 2 C RB-24J (9L) and 70% fuel (no center ext tank), its like flying 21 st Century supermaneuverable dogfighter. Obviously I don't know any better, but if I received DCS: GrippenNG with same flight dynamics, I'd be darned impressed. Roll is like incredible, slow speed handling, pre-stall high G buffer is low. Seems it would be able to out-accelerate and turn inside Mirage 2K, if both just had cannon and 2 missiles and 70% internal only gas.

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Are we flying the same jet? Viggen loses speed like crazy pulling decent Gs. Slow speed handling is going to be good for a canard-delta fighter designed for STOL. Sea level acceleration is also of course excellent since it was the design goal; it has a very very powerful engine. Roll rate should also be fairly good, although I don't think it's that exceptional. But in any kind of sustained turning maneuver, the Viggen really wallows and has trouble regaining speed without serious unloading. It's good for one good instantaneous turn but that's about it.

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Yeah, what kengou said. There is absolutely nothing remarkable in the Viggen's maneuverability. It's adequate, ITR at high Mach numbers is fair if you care to bleed your energy, and that's it. Even the roll rate you mention is nothing to write home about compared to e.g. the Viper or Mirage in Cat1/AA mode.


Edited by TLTeo
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Out of curiosity I went back and did some BFM between Viggen and MiG-21s. Viggen is really kind of a dog. At high speed it can do one decent instantaneous turn. After that, the only real gameplan is 1 circle and scissors, but it's really hard to recover speed if you force an overshoot. I couldn't win that way, only hope to stay alive. And the roll rate is actually pretty poor when slow (and it's not really great even when fast, just average). And the compressors stalls are nasty. In a comparison to a Mirage the Viggen is worse in every conceivable way but STOL.

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Sustained turn rate at high Mach numbers (0.8-0.9) is not bad either (you can sustain like 4.5ish G), but it's hard to stay in the sweet spot because as soon as you pull a little too much, you bleed tons of energy with no chance of recovering it. Also, you need to be at full A/B all the time, and often that means you barely have enough fuel for one dogfight before having to RTB.


Edited by TLTeo
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I came here expecting a video, to show me how I have been flying this thing all wrong. I basically use its horrible speed bleeding when turning to come in fast and just line up/slow down from 800 to 400km/h in one turn before dropping the gear and landing. So to read that this thing is a wonder in dogfight, well... I respectfully have a very different experience. But i'd be happy to see the OP show us a dogfight video against F/A-18 or F-16 to show what he means.


Edited by Qiou87

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4 hours ago, Freefall57 said:

Dmitri and Skysurfer should go online and use this new found super maneuverability of the Viggen to dominate. Out turn and out climb them all!

 

I did not say it outturned anything I said it turned fairly well all things considered if you kept the speed up. And it for a fact will outclimb a Mig-29, F-16 etc. People need to stop looking at EM charts and start looking into employing the jet properly.

 

And as a matter of fact I have used the Viggen online in the past against 4th gens with pretty decent success. 😉 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Skysurfer
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But what is the point of using an attack aircraft as a dogfighter ?  it kills realism.

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Just now, Rudel_chw said:

But what is the point of using an attack aircraft as a dogfighter ?  it kills realism.

 

You don't use it as a dogfighter. The AJS37 with 4x AIM-9L's is an excellent interceptor and boom and zoom aicraft. Does it better than anything in the game since the operational limit of 1350kph doesn't seem to apply in DCS.

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14 minutes ago, Skysurfer said:

 

... The AJS37 with 4x AIM-9L's is an excellent interceptor and boom and zoom aicraft. Does it better than anything in the game since the operational limit of 1350kph doesn't seem to apply in DCS.

 

Really? an aircraft with no Air-Air radar?  Any real fighter, like the F-14, F-15, F-16 or F/A-18 will kill the Viggen from a far longer range than its Sidewinders, before the viggen has even seen its enemy.

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13 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Really? an aircraft with no Air-Air radar?  Any real fighter, like the F-14, F-15, F-16 or F/A-18 will kill the Viggen from a far longer range than its Sidewinders, before the viggen has even seen its enemy.

 

In an ideal scenario yes. There's also an advantage in not emmiting anything and sneaking up to say an unsuspecting Tomcat with GCI guidence. Literally how iraqi Mirages and Mig-23's got kills on Tomcats. Point is, no matter your airframe, no one has "global SA".

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13 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Really? an aircraft with no Air-Air radar?  Any real fighter, like the F-14, F-15, F-16 or F/A-18 will kill the Viggen from a far longer range than its Sidewinders, before the viggen has even seen its enemy.

Our Viggen has an A/A radar mode which is enough to lock a a bandit and get range and gunsight indications, which is really any worse than other interceptor radars of this era (F-5, MiG-21, ...).

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Eeeeeh, that's quite the stretch. The Viggen a/a radar only displays range to tell you when you're close enough to fire AIM-9s. It doesn't compute lead for a gun shot, nor does it easily display contacts unless you are at pretty high altitude, and even then, the display is not as clear as the Mig 19/21 or F-5. It's more like the Sabre's radar, but for missile employment only.

 

I'm also still eagerly waiting for a track that shows this supposed unrealistic maneuvering performance.


Edited by TLTeo
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