RAF Panavia Tornado GR1/4

[paulw10]

What a plane. 550 knot bombing runs at 50 feet off the deck. Full auto terrain following. 3g pull-up lob bombing. Marker, target, slew and insert. Hold the pickle and watch the mud fly. Even the back seater gets some fun. Nothing on the RHWR. JP233 away. 
Please can you add this epic aircraft.  

[Nipil]

It was stated in 2020 in some of the interviews with ED devs that they will not do Tonka. Probably there are secrecy issues. Maybe a 3rd party would make it one day, though I doubt it will happen any time soon.

[paulw10]

Now that it is finally out of service, surely game on. You could exclude the latest stuff, or just do the older GR1. Fancy running down a runway and releasing the JP233 under a hail of AAA. The thought makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck.

[Northstar98]

On 1/13/2021 at 5:37 PM, paulw10 said:

Now that it is finally out of service, surely game on. You could exclude the latest stuff, or just do the older GR1. Fancy running down a runway and releasing the JP233 under a hail of AAA. The thought makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck.

It's a long requested aircraft.

Apparently ED approached the manufacturer and they declined. The best bet is probably Truegrit as they're working with NETMA, but it is going to be a long while.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Northstar98
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[МаксиM]

the manufacturer has no desire to share technical documentation, and this why tornado should not be expected anytime soon

[QuiGon]

15 hours ago, paulw10 said:

Now that it is finally out of service, surely game on.

 

It's still very much in service in a bunch of other countries though...

Edited January 14, 2021 by QuiGon

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I thought about Tornado and F-111E/F for DCS. If I had to choose, I'd say develop Tornado. Though ether would be awesome. F-111F mission is just too long range, and DCS needs more DCS level European types. Observing YT posts of F-111F for FSX, seems like a busy pit and marginal visibility. But if its a choice between Tornado module and SEPECAT Jaguar , I'd vote for Jaguar. I am not really impressed with WSO AI in DCS, and prefer single seaters.

[paulw10]

17 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I am not really impressed with WSO AI in DCS, and prefer single seaters

It’s a very valid point. The Tornado, for example, is a very backseat driven beast. The front seater takes off, turns the TFR on, engages autopilot and wakes up an hour or so later for tea and medals. Lol. Seriously, a very two seat operation. The work levels in both seats can be fairly high I understand. Just running the EW DASS is boffin stuff. Getting the best out of it may prove tricky in the single player mode. 

[Fangs Out]

F-111F and Tornado are both aircraft i'd like to see. The F-111F has one of biggest record during ODS which was the most amount of tank kills (using the PAVE TAC Pod). and the Tornado had the biggest mission of the early days of ODS (destroying Runways and taxiways with its specialized ordinance ) . Both are mid to late cold war aircraft and both are beautiful. I also like to see the F.3 Variant as well

[DmitriKozlowsky]

How many DCS playas are so hardcore that they are willing to fly a 10 hour mission, 4 inflights refuels, at night, just to drop two laser guided bombs on patch of sand?

Tornado, F-111, F-4, Jaguar, and Harrier family, are renown for their ground support and mission planning equipment. This is what we need in DCS. An accurate mission planner. You dont just plop down waypoints. The system displays trajectory arcs based on planned speed and bank angle, as well as expected fuel usage based on altitude and weather. You have a good ground track, that is overlayed over known air defenses and threat areas.

[Fangs Out]

Also, many of the boring parts of modern combat aren't as visible in this era of cold war. This is why i'm an avid fan of mid cold war as the tech and the features in the era make it fun to play. I personally liked the F-5 and f-14 because the systems aren't as complex as modern aircraft and make it much more dangerous than a jdam drop from 15k up. TLDR both are aircraft that I would buy and are key players in the mid cold war I want to see in DCS

[Northstar98]

On 1/14/2021 at 10:44 PM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

How many DCS playas are so hardcore that they are willing to fly a 10 hour mission, 4 inflights refuels, at night, just to drop two laser guided bombs on patch of sand?

What missions you fly are totally up to you, there's nothing stopping you from taking off from Senaki to bomb Sukhumi for instance.

We don't have the maps that are large enough to mandate 10 hour missions, and probably won't until DCS World, includes, well, the world.

Quote

Tornado, F-111, F-4, Jaguar, and Harrier family, are renown for their ground support and mission planning equipment. This is what we need in DCS. An accurate mission planner. You dont just plop down waypoints. The system displays trajectory arcs based on planned speed and bank angle, as well as expected fuel usage based on altitude and weather. You have a good ground track, that is overlayed over known air defenses and threat areas.

All aircraft I would love to see, I love the idea of fast and low interdiction/strike.

As for the mission planner, if the one in development offers the same functionality as in that other, F-16 orientated simulator, then fantastic.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Northstar98
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[DmitriKozlowsky]

To me the most difficult, to survive, map + campaign, that would be amazing in DCS is Baltic+Central Europe CA 1987-1991. Everytime I see old WINGS or BBC docu on RAF showing Harriers, F-4s, F-111, Tornadoes, RNFAA Bucs, F-16s running low , blurry 1970's-1980's video, low level, anti-col strobes, with blurry tree tops wizzing by. Or RAF Harriers taxing between trees with giant nets over head. Always the BBC Brit narrator reminding how in case of NATO/Warsaw Pact war in Europe, all these bases would be destroyed in first 24 minutes. Then cut to scramble, showing RAF F-4 crew jumping into their brown+gray camo Phantom, crew-chief disconnecting thick cables, then F-4 taxing. No waiting for INS to align. Thats the theater I imagine for DCS: Central Europe, DCS: Baltic, DCS: Scandanavia, DCS: North Sea, DCS: Iceland imaginary future maps. THe Russian gen 2 SAMs in DCS are from that era. SA-10 (S300), SA-8, SA-15, SA-19.

[Northstar98]

On 1/16/2021 at 11:08 AM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

To me the most difficult, to survive, map + campaign, that would be amazing in DCS is Baltic+Central Europe CA 1987-1991. Everytime I see old WINGS or BBC docu on RAF showing Harriers, F-4s, F-111, Tornadoes, RNFAA Bucs, F-16s running low , blurry 1970's-1980's video, low level, anti-col strobes, with blurry tree tops wizzing by. Or RAF Harriers taxing between trees with giant nets over head. Always the BBC Brit narrator reminding how in case of NATO/Warsaw Pact war in Europe, all these bases would be destroyed in first 24 minutes. Then cut to scramble, showing RAF F-4 crew jumping into their brown+gray camo Phantom, crew-chief disconnecting thick cables, then F-4 taxing. No waiting for INS to align. Thats the theater I imagine for DCS: Central Europe, DCS: Baltic, DCS: Scandanavia, DCS: North Sea, DCS: Iceland imaginary future maps. THe Russian gen 2 SAMs in DCS are from that era. SA-10 (S300), SA-8, SA-15, SA-19.

I think you just described perfection in DCS.

I would kill for a mid-to-late Cold War Germany map (focusing on the northern and central regions); the place was the Cold War hotspot between NATO and the USSR, and if it were to go hot, it would be the place; it fits the era of most assets very well; as well as being one of the only places I can think of that has BLUFOR and REDFOR bases on the same map; we have a fair few modules with appropriate liveries (A-10A/C have a Spangdahlem livery, as does the F-16CM; the MiG-21bis has a Preschen livery, and the MiG-29S has a Damgarten livery. The MiG-15bis and MiG-19P also have GDR liveries).

Only issue with my ideal map, is that it's huge; 440,000 km^2 - just trying to squeeze in as many airbases as possible.

Plus there are airbases for the upcoming Typhoon and a Tornado (if one were to be done); namely Schleswig AB (Tornado), Wittmundhafen (Typhoon, formerly F-4F and F-104G) and Laage (Typhoon, former GDR airbase). Not to mention RAF bases like Gutersloh, Bruggen, Wildenrath and Laarbruch, hosting the Tornado, Harrier (both first generation GR.1/GR.1A/GR.3 and second generation GR.5 and GR.7), Phantom II and Jaguar (among others).

For a naval orientated map, I'd love to see a North Atlantic map, including Iceland, the Faroes and the Shetland Islands (maybe even reaching into Scotland). 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Northstar98
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[QuiGon]

48 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

I think you just described perfection in DCS.

 

Indeed!

[rkk01]

Norway...

 

(well, whole of Scandinavia - south to Lossiemouth and east to Murmansk)

 

 

Big map, but a great basis for:

 

- Cold War era. Great for blue and red air, sea, amphibious ops.  Falklands era RN assets would be perfect

 

- WW2.  Brilliant for Mossie coastal strikes (and DCS Beaufighter module  ) Also great for 109 / 190 air defence and (flyable) Ju-88 arctic convoy strikes

 

- modern / future era. Still a major NATO exercise area..

 

EF2000 used Scandinavia, and the terrain was brilliant for low level strike, with all the deep fjords and mountain ranges

 

ETA - Tornado...?
Of course

 

And a Jaguar, and a Harrier

Edited January 16, 2021 by rkk01

[paulw10]

Maybe a Norwegian Sea theatre, east of the GIUK Sosus barrier. Reenact the northern scenario of Red Storm Rising. Red Banner Northern Fleet attempt to push in to the Atlantic and control the shipping lanes and threaten the Eastern Seaboard. It’s all based around the mid-80s so fits the general DCS modern era aircraft that we have. Maybe even extend the helo models and do some sub hunting. AI or multi crew P3C Orions and MR2 Nimrods. 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

On 1/14/2021 at 5:20 AM, paulw10 said:

It’s a very valid point. The Tornado, for example, is a very backseat driven beast. The front seater takes off, turns the TFR on, engages autopilot and wakes up an hour or so later for tea and medals. Lol. Seriously, a very two seat operation. The work levels in both seats can be fairly high I understand. Just running the EW DASS is boffin stuff. Getting the best out of it may prove tricky in the single player mode. 

The pilot in front is generally pilot in command. He is responsible for safe flight, mission execution, and delegates nav, attack, and EW tasks to backs eater. In military, you may delegate authority,  but you cannot delegate responsibility. WSO runs radar, provides steering ques and offsets, and releases weapons with pilot consent. Pilot controls short range air-air missiles and guns for AA and AG. WSO is also second eyes during ACM. For inflight refuel. WSO provides nav and steering ques to tanker, but its up to pilot to connect and take gas.

[QuiGon]

6 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

The pilot in front is generally pilot in command. He is responsible for safe flight, mission execution, and delegates nav, attack, and EW tasks to backs eater. In military, you may delegate authority,  but you cannot delegate responsibility. WSO runs radar, provides steering ques and offsets, and releases weapons with pilot consent. Pilot controls short range air-air missiles and guns for AA and AG. WSO is also second eyes during ACM. For inflight refuel. WSO provides nav and steering ques to tanker, but its up to pilot to connect and take gas.

Not sure if you're talking about British Tornado crews or in general? I'm not sure how the Brits do it, but in other air forces, like the US Air Force or the US Navy a WSO can very much be the tactical commander for a mission/flight.

Edited January 17, 2021 by QuiGon

[DmitriKozlowsky]

10 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Not sure if you're talking about British Tornado crews or in general? I'm not sure how the Brits do it, but in other air forces, like the US Air Force or the US Navy a WSO can very much be the tactical commander for a mission/flight.

 

That is per mission and unit SOP. True for multi-crew large aircraft, like AWACS, Airborne Command Post, where a senior officer O-6 or flag is mission commander. Maybe for special mission aircraft like SR-71 where RSO may be senior to pilot. In F-111 units, some low hour pilots were paired with high hour bomb/NAV officer. In Vietnam F0105G Wild Weasel , low hour 1lt. and Capt pilots were paired with high hour senior WSO. Or vice versa. Generally pilot is considered pilot in command. But teamwork is #1. If F-111D/E/F/G crew or Tornado CFIT themselves into terrain, both will suffer same consequences.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

European NATO-Warsaw Pact DCS theater map, I hope , would pay particular attention to Danish Straits (not Straits Of Denmark) and Kiel Canal zone. Danish Straits  and Kiel Canal are strategic chokepoints for access to North Sea and wider Atlantic from Baltic. Heavily urbanized low sea level terrain.  Soviet/Russian Baltic Fleet would be bottled in shallow Baltic, and if venturing into NATO area of Baltic , faced hostile nations from all four cardinal directions. It is thought that Soviet airborne doctrine planned a airborne drop in multi-division strength to get 'boots on the ground' to secure, if only temporary , NATO territory to allow Soviet/Russian Baltic fleet to run the Danish Straits into North Sea and Atlantic. Maybe even use Kiel Canal, but assumption is that it would be destroyed to prevent from falling to Soviet Russian forces.

Edited January 18, 2021 by DmitriKozlowsky

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

That is per mission and unit SOP. True for multi-crew large aircraft, like AWACS, Airborne Command Post, where a senior officer O-6 or flag is mission commander. Maybe for special mission aircraft like SR-71 where RSO may be senior to pilot. In F-111 units, some low hour pilots were paired with high hour bomb/NAV officer. In Vietnam F0105G Wild Weasel , low hour 1lt. and Capt pilots were paired with high hour senior WSO. Or vice versa. Generally pilot is considered pilot in command. But teamwork is #1. If F-111D/E/F/G crew or Tornado CFIT themselves into terrain, both will suffer same consequences.

"Pilot in command" (PIC) just denotes that he is responsible for the aircraft, which is indeed always the pilot as he is the one flying the aircraft. What I said is, that the WSO/RIO or whatever the backseater is called in a specific aircraft can be the "Mission Commander" (MC) of the entire mission/flight.

Usually young inexperienced pilots get paired up with senior experienced WSOs and vice versa.

Edited January 18, 2021 by QuiGon

[Ikaros]

The Tornado is freaking awesome and I will definitely purchase it if it gets developed.

 

 

 

 

[upyr1]

I hope we get the  the ADV  too the Tornado is awesome

[Tigroou]

Digital Integration 1993 Tornado was terrible... 80% mission planning and learning, 5% frontseat, 15%WSO seat... a mud’s life

But DI developped the real mission planner for GR4 if i remember correctly. They had a strong database and add a « small sim » around it... 

add-on Desert Storm was also so intense...