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Possible errors in Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Scripts\Database\Weapons\warheads.lua (open beta) ?


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I was looking a bit at some lua files in the game folders, and I perhaps found some questionable stuff in the Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Scripts\Database\Weapons\warheads.lua
For most warheads, expl_mass is equal to the quantity of explosive in the warhead, and not to the total mass of the warhead:

 

warheads["C_5"] = -- S-5KO shaped-charge, fragmented
{
    mass            = 1.08,
    expl_mass        = 0.37, -- Warhead 1.08 kg, explosive 0.37 kg + fragments bonus
    other_factors    = { 1.0, 0.5, 0.5 },
    concrete_factors = { 1.0, 0.5, 0.1 },
    concrete_obj_factor = 0.0,
    obj_factors      = { 1.0, 1.0 },
    cumulative_factor= 3.0,
    cumulative_thickness = 0.1
};

warheads["C_8"] = -- S-8ÊÎÌ shaped-charge, fragmented
{
    mass            = 3.0,
    expl_mass        = 0.855, -- Warhead 3 kg, explosive 0.855 kg + fragments bonus
    other_factors    = { 0.5, 0.5, 0.5 },
    concrete_factors = { 0.5, 0.5, 0.1 },
    concrete_obj_factor = 0.0,
    obj_factors      = { 0.5, 1.0 },
    cumulative_factor= 5.0,
    cumulative_thickness = 0.3
};

warheads["C_8OFP2"] =  -- S-8OFP HE
{
     mass            = 9.2,
     expl_mass        = 2.7, -- Warhead 9,2 kg, explosive 2.7 kg + fragments bonus
     other_factors    = { 0.5, 1.0, 1.0 },
     concrete_factors = { 0.5, 1.0, 0.1 },
     concrete_obj_factor = 0.3,
     obj_factors      = { 0.5, 1.0 },
     cumulative_factor= 0.0,
     cumulative_thickness = 0.0
}; 

 


but for some other warheads, the expl_mass is equal to the total mass of the warhead
example:


 warheads["C_24"] = -- S-24 HE Warhead 123 kg, explosive 23.5 kg + fragments bonus
{
     mass            = 123.0,
     expl_mass        = 123.0, -- Warhead 123 kg, explosive 23.5 kg + fragments bonus
     other_factors    = { 1.0, 1.0, 1.0 },
     concrete_factors = { 1.0, 1.0, 0.1 },
     concrete_obj_factor = 1.0,
     obj_factors      = { 0.2, 1.0 },
     cumulative_factor= 0.0,
     cumulative_thickness = 0.0
}; 
 


Edited by Mad_Shell
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  • Mad_Shell changed the title to Possible errors in Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Scripts\Database\Weapons\warheads.lua (open beta) ?

I thought about this one too, unfortunately I have a sneaking suspicion that DCS doesn't actually model fragmentation (and definitely doesn't model the difference between different fragmentation warheads/patterns, such a continuous rod for instance) so to compensate for it, the explosive mass is inflated.


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

 

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro

 

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I think a large part of it is explained by the section at the very end, where most of the stats are involved. They're not necessarily replicating real masses, but picking ones that achieve a specified desired effect when combined with different coefficients depending on what they hit. In some cases, this will mean fudging the numbers to have more or less “explosive mass” as a baseline because it yields the right combinations of effects on target without having to fiddle a whole lot with those coefficients.

 

The bit at the end, just quickly run through google translate, states:

- Description of the coefficients
- [[
expl_mass = 2.0,
The mass of the explosive in the warhead of the ammunition in kilograms

 other_factors = {HE1, HE2, HE3};
Coefficients of high-explosive action when hitting the ground:
HE1. - high-explosive striking effect (expl_mass * HE1)
HE2. - explosion effect size
HE3. - the size of the explosion funnel

 concrete_factors = {HE1, HE2, HE3},
Coefficients of high-explosive action when hitting concrete:
HE1 - high explosive striking effect (expl_mass * HE1)
HE2 - explosion effect size
HE3 - explosion funnel size

 concrete_obj_factor = CP,
Coefficients of concrete-piercing action when hitting concrete:
CP - concrete piercing effect for concrete ammunition (expl_mass * CP)

 obj_factors = {HE1, HE2},
High-explosive coefficient of action when hitting a ground object (equipment):
HE1 - high explosive striking effect (expl_mass * HE1)
HE2 - explosion effect size

 cumulative_factor = SC,
SC - cumulative effect for cumulative ammunition (expl_mass * SC)
 cumulative_thickness = TH
TH is the maximum thickness of the armor that the cumulative part of the demage penetrates (in meters).
     If the unit's armor is larger, then the cumulative damage is not applied.

Let us assume that the warhead of a conventional bomb has an explosive mass of 10 kg.

The bomb has the following coefficients:

obj_factors = {0.5, 1},
concrete_factors = {0.8, 1, 1},
other_factors = {0.9, 1, 1},
cumulative_factor = 5,
concrete_obj_factor = 3
cumulative_thickness = 0.05

then,

1.if a bomb falls into the ground, then the high-explosive effect will be 10 * 0.9 = 9
2.If a bomb falls on a concrete object, then the high-explosive effect will be 10 * 0.8, plus an additional 3 * 10 = 30 concrete-piercing damaging effect is transferred to this object
3.If a bomb hits a car, then the high-explosive effect will be 10 * 0.5,
    plus an additional 5 * 10 = 50 cumulative lethal action is transferred to this object if the vehicle's armor is less than 5 cm.

In order not to write large tables for each warhead, there is a simple_warhead function that takes one parameter - a mass of explosives. The output is a conventional warhead with a high-explosive fragmentation effect.
-]]

 

Run through a few scenarios with the different warheads and see if the numbers make more sense with those parameters in mind.

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21 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

I thought about this one too, unfortunately I have a sneaking suspicion that DCS doesn't actually model fragmentation (and definitely doesn't model the difference between different fragmentation warheads/patterns, such a continuous rod for instance) so to compensate for it, the explosive mass is inflated.

 

There is no fragmentation in DCS. It's collision based: the missile needs to hit the target.
Something like this:
r27et-fusing.jpg


Edited by Cmptohocah
Added an example.

Cmptohocah=CMPTOHOCAH 😉

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4 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

There is no fragmentation in DCS. It's collision based: the missile needs to hit the target.
Something like this:
r27et-fusing.jpg

 

 

That's not what I'm talking about, you can still have fragmentation effects from impact only detonations - but fragmentation effects aren't modelled, there's only 1 'explosive effect'.

 

But to give you an answer, there are definitely proximity fuses in DCS, I've seen them many times for missiles that have them. In MP desync complicates things, which I imagine is what's going on in that tacview screenshot.

 

What I'm talking about here are actual warhead effects, not fusing. And so far DCS only models blast/high-explosive effects, not fragmentation. What it does do however, is inflate the explosive mass of warheads to approximate fragmentation effects (as much as 5x for missiles with long fuse ranges).


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

 

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro

 

Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/mBG4dD

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