...AA missiles and RWR at least.

[impreza]

If they cancel BS3 due to new laws I think they could add AA missiles and rwr in new he updates. I think we want a "complete" Ka50 or new fuctions without BS3. it could be like little additions. R73 and Igla are already in DCS. They should have done that these years and this is one of the most important modules. 

[fudabidu]

The new laws made it even more difficult to acquire and use the required documentation. This is why BS3 was put on hold.

So, how are they going to implement AA missiles or RWR if they can't use any official documentation? Just take a wild guess?

[Volk.]

Not sure it ever got RWR. A missile warning system as the stuff goes down (at launch) but not a pre-warning (I think). Also except for that 1 Night Attack model with a glass cockpit no place to put an RWR screen from the cockpit photos I've seen.

IGLAs would be neat though. While not fully modeled they are in DCS atm. Unless there are tech restrictions involving the Shkval/helmet sight and how it locks on, but that one should be fairly declassified.

How would one select IGLAs though?? You can only select inner or outer pylons, but never wingtip mounts. Unless one presses outer station twice?

[S.E.Bulba]

21 минуту назад, Volk. сказал:

How would one select IGLAs though?? You can only select inner or outer pylons, but never wingtip mounts. Unless one presses outer station twice?

I won't say anything about Iglas, but the R-73 is probably so. 

 

Скрытый текст

 

Original in Russian

 

Про «Иглы» ничего не скажу, однако Р-73 наверное так. 

 

 

[impreza]

I don´t know how work Igla exacly but there are many documentation about ka50 and other helicopters. I supose its a separated system from the rest. I dont matter if those systems are not perfect and 100% real but that AA is very important for this helo. They could make something close to reality in this case. Ka50 deserves to be "complete". Add missiles what they already have ... why not?

[GGTharos]

5 minutes ago, impreza said:

I don´t know how work Igla exacly but there are many documentation about ka50 and other helicopters.

 

Where?  The only 'documentation' for the Ka-50 is airshow mock-ups and brochures advertising what could be done if someone bought them, but the capability doesn't actually exist.  Your car could be fitted with a radar and autopilot, too, but it isn't ... should you model it with one?  What abotu the AH-64 used by the US Army?   Should they slap on some stingers because you feel like it should have them, even though the US Army never had the helis wired for them?  (but yes, they did test them!)

 

5 minutes ago, impreza said:

Ka50 deserves to be "complete".

 

But it is complete.

 

5 minutes ago, impreza said:

Add missiles what they already have ... why not?

 

... because they don't have them.  

[Volk.]

@GGTharos / @S.E.Bulba - I'm guessing you're in the know, and yeah this is slightly veering off from what they said BS3 would have - but was the Ka-50 ever tested fielded for the HARM (radiation seeking) Kh-25s? If not did it come in on the Ka-52?

[impreza]

hace 8 minutos, GGTharos dijo:

 

Where?  The only 'documentation' for the Ka-50 is airshow mock-ups and brochures advertising what could be done if someone bought them, but the capability doesn't actually exist.  Your car could be fitted with a radar and autopilot, too, but it isn't ... should you model it with one?  What abotu the AH-64 used by the US Army?   Should they slap on some stingers because you feel like it should have them, even though the US Army never had the helis wired for them?  (but yes, they did test them!)

 

 

But it is complete.

 

 

... because they don't have them.  

Ka50 is complete? where? Igla and r73 are not in dcs? Do u know that there is a lot of documentation in russian? 

Edited January 11, 2021 by impreza

[GGTharos]

2 minutes ago, impreza said:

Ka50 is complete? where? Igla and r73 are not in dcs? Do u know that there is a lot of documentation in russian? 

 

So post it?  If it helps, translate/summarize.   Certainly one thing most of us are not able to do is just that.   So far as I can see there has never been a service example of a Ka-50 carrying any of the stuff you mentioned. 

[S.E.Bulba]

8 минут назад, Volk. сказал:

but was the Ka-50 ever tested fielded for the HARM (radiation seeking) Kh-25s?

 

[GGTharos]

9 minutes ago, Volk. said:

@GGTharos / @S.E.Bulba - I'm guessing you're in the know, and yeah this is slightly veering off from what they said BS3 would have - but was the Ka-50 ever tested fielded for the HARM (radiation seeking) Kh-25s? If not did it come in on the Ka-52?

 

I'm not aware of that specifically ... unfortunately this sort of thing was discussed very long ago, and the general impression I got was that Kh-25's had very undesirable launch problems.

I think of it like the Apache and Maverick.  It was mounted, tested, and rejected for reasons of practicaility.

[fudabidu]

7 hours ago, impreza said:

I don´t know how work Igla exacly but there are many documentation about ka50 and other helicopters. I supose its a separated system from the rest. I dont matter if those systems are not perfect and 100% real but that AA is very important for this helo. They could make something close to reality in this case. Ka50 deserves to be "complete". Add missiles what they already have ... why not?

Our Ka-50 is complete. It's modeled after a very specific aircraft from a very specific time (#25 , 2000-2003). It didn't support AA missiles, so we're not getting them either.
If you want a fantasy airplane you're in the wrong place. It's that simple.

And if AA is such a big problem, how about you investigate the Shkval tracking range/logic and make a new topic about it? If this was 'fixed' the Vikhr would be a very reliable AA weapon. Got plenty of PvP kills against jets before 2.5 made the Shkval worse.

Edited January 12, 2021 by fudabidu
(#25 , 2000-2003) thanks S.E.Bulba

[S.E.Bulba]

18 минут назад, fudabidu сказал:

#24 IIRC, not sure about the year

#25, 2000–2003.

[Tnt Snipes]

On 1/12/2021 at 6:55 AM, Volk. said:

How would one select IGLAs though?? You can only select inner or outer pylons, but never wingtip mounts. Unless one presses outer station twice?

Air-to-Air missiles hardpoint [LCtrl+U] on the collective hatswitch, NO FUNCTION at the moment. I was eagerly waiting for it to be functional. No worries, think good positive thoughts, who knows we might get them.

[Tnt Snipes]

This is my opinion and I maybe wrong.

 

The few numbers of Ka50 produced in real life and the role they played, and the variants pictures you see online, seems like, the Ka50 was actually a "guinea pig". Made and tested in the field and with various systems in such a short time, was actually to pave the way for the Ka52.  First flight of the 50 was in 82, and the 52's was in 97, not too far apart arnt they?

 

No wonder we got the Ka50 in DCS.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by snipes
Spelling

[impreza]

If you dont know Ka50 have iglas I dont know what are you doing here. thanks for your kindness.

En 12/1/2021 a las 4:27, fudabidu dijo:

Our Ka-50 is complete. It's modeled after a very specific aircraft from a very specific time (#25 , 2000-2003). It didn't support AA missiles, so we're not getting them either.
If you want a fantasy airplane you're in the wrong place. It's that simple.

And if AA is such a big problem, how about you investigate the Shkval tracking range/logic and make a new topic about it? If this was 'fixed' the Vikhr would be a very reliable AA weapon. Got plenty of PvP kills against jets before 2.5 made the Shkval worse.

Edited January 14, 2021 by impreza

[GGTharos]

57 minutes ago, impreza said:

If you dont know Ka50 have iglas I dont know what are you doing here. thanks for your kindness.

 

It's the opposite.  You're wishing that it had Iglas, but we know that aircraft #25 didn't even have the AA switch wired (the switch is there, it does nothing) IRL.  This is the aircraft that is modeled in DCS.

Edited January 14, 2021 by GGTharos

[impreza]

hace 3 minutos, GGTharos dijo:

 

It's the opposite.  You're wishing that it had Iglas, but we know that aircraft #25 didn't even have the AA switch wired (the switch is there, it does nothing) IRL.

I was speaking about ka50, not about ka50 #25 according people who think they know an aircraft because they use it in DCS. I´m not here for rubbish. We have been listening experts for years telling that´s impossible to have the Apache in DCS and now ... Where they are now?. Tharos ... take a break and go to sleep. 

[fudabidu]

@impreza
The Ka-50 we got right now is modeled after #25 from 2000-2003.

In order to model a new variant ED would need certain documentation, which is prohibited by the new law.

Why is this so hard to understand?

If you don't care about realism and just want Iglas, play EECH or something.

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by fudabidu

[3WA]

Lol, wait till the Longbow starts SLAUGHTERING the Ka-50 pilots.  Then we'll see if we get Igla's and FLIR, or not.

 

And yes, the function switch for AA IS on the collective, and YES, there I believe there are other nations besides US, that do arm their export AH-64's with stingers.  So the function is there.  Same as Igla is for the Ka-50.

 

That, and the Ka-50N did have FLIR capability.

 

All the experiments were eventually merged, an extra seat was added,  and they became the Ka-52.

 

The Ka-50 never was anything but a FANTASY.  Only 12 experimental aircraft were made, all of varying abilities.  So, I have no problem adding FLIR and Iglas.  One or more models had that capability.

Edited January 14, 2021 by 3WA

[impreza]

hace 7 minutos, fudabidu dijo:

The Ka-50 we got right now is modeled after #25 from 2000-2003.

In order to model a new variant ED would need certain documentation, which is prohibited by the new law.

Why is this so hard to understand?

If you don't care about realism and just want Iglas, play EECH or something.

 

I know what you mean. I was talking about all capabilities. Sometimes the same version of the same aircraft have some differences. Maybe the #25 was like that but Ka50 have those weapons. Im case of AA like Igla or Stinger is not neccesary a super-upgrade because many others aircrafts and vehicles can assemble and disassemble that system. If you are worried about realism I dont want an imaginary helo but thats what I mean.

[S.E.Bulba]

There are too many Iglas Ka-50's Witnesses on these forums… however, none of them has ever seen their idol IRL. 

 

Скрытый текст

Original in Russian

 

На этих форумах слишком много Свидетелей «Игл» Ка-50… однако ни один из них так никогда и не видел своего кумира в реальной жизни. 

 

[3WA]

That's ok.  I find the Ka-50 to be somewhat of a fantasy myself.  How many of them were made again? 12?  All of different flavors.  They were just experiments that led to the 2 seat Ka-52 (which has RWR, Igla's, and FLIR).

[Cheetah7798]

I think this road was been travelled a good number of times now. The Ka-50 was not a helicopter which was mass produced by any means, and was, to an extent, a test platform that fielded and proved the functionality of a lot of systems that went on to appear in the Ka-52. From what I gather, the fact that it was modelled at all was due to a connection ED had with some pilot(s) / Engineer(s) relevant to the project. Talking about weather the Ka-50 (#25 or otherwise) was or wasn't modified to utilise the Igla, a DIRCM or an RWR is beside the point.

 

Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be an inherent lack of ability to read between the lines here.

 

ED cannot, despite its best efforts, produce a modern Russian module due to one or multiple Russian laws on information gathering. I get the notion that BS3 was supposed to be an attempt to circumvent that. Obviously, any attempt to model the Ka-52 directly would be in vain, so perhaps they thought to improve the Ka-50 with some not-too-far-fetched technologies that have been fielded in the Ka-52, and had at least been theorised to work for the Ka-50. Hell, they've put cutting edge DIRCMs on Mi-24s; There is no doubt that rigging one for a Ka-50 would be within the realm of possibility.

Is it true to life? No.

 

Is it possible? Yes.

Is it believable? Yes.

 

Would it have made the Ka-50 some kind of uber-weapon, the likes of which no one had ever seen? I think not.

 

Ignoring, for a moment, the fine-print that separates reality from believable fiction; BS3 would have been (in my eyes) a kind gesture by ED to the many DCS patrons longing for a modern Russian module. I wasn't about to scoff at its inability to mimic reality, nor was I going to boast that the once-to-be newly modelled Kamov was a proper representation of reality. It was merely the most realistic possibility (from a development standpoint) for seeing a modern Russian aircraft in DCS.

 

So, as unrealistic as BS3 would have been, I still feel a little sombre that it won't be taking shape after all this waiting.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Cheetah7798

[S.E.Bulba]

Now it makes no sense to endlessly beat the air. Perhaps in 50 years (maybe earlier), the ED will make a Ka-52 with Iglas, FLIR & RWR… but at the present time you will have to fly in the DCS World on what is.

 

Скрытый текст

Original in Russian

 

Сейчас уже нет смысла бесконечно переливать из пустого в порожнее. Возможно лет через 50 (может и раньше) ED сделают Ка-52 с «Иглами», FLIR и RWR… однако в настоящее время придётся летать в DCS World на том, что есть.

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by S.E.Bulba
UPD.