IFF modes in the f-18 Hornet

[Dadzilla74]

Hi Guys, I only just noticed that if you turn the IFF on it is set to XP mode, and if you hit Iff again it changes to AI mode. Does anyone know the difference in modes?

[dorianR666]

pretty sure its not simulated in DCS.

only iff off and iff on.

[AvroLanc]

2 hours ago, Mark McCosker said:

Hi Guys, I only just noticed that if you turn the IFF on it is set to XP mode, and if you hit Iff again it changes to AI mode. Does anyone know the difference in modes?

 

XP is Transponder - the modes your IFF will squawk to others. You can set codes for modes 1,2,3( and 3A), and either A or B mode 4.

 

AI is Airborne Interrogator - the modes you interrogate when 'IFFing' a contact. These codes can be set independently from the XP. The contacts XP modes will need to match your AI codes to provide a positive (friendly in our case) response. I'm sure the radar and AZ/EL pages should show separate symbols for IFF returns along with the normal radar returns.

 

Presumably ED plans to add some kind of system with IFF codes. It has been mentioned before. The addition of the UFC options is likely a small step along the way.

[Bunny Clark]

In addition to AvroLanc's post above, the XP / AI display on the UFC is just a menu category showing which settings you are currently viewing and editing. Switching between them does not change IFF operation at all. 

[Dadzilla74]

Thank everyone for the responses.

 

"XP is Transponder - the modes your IFF will squawk to others. You can set codes for modes 1,2,3( and 3A), and either A or B mode 4."

 

In missions/multiplayer servers, do we ever need to set our own Squark codes for modes in the above comment?

[Tholozor]

At the moment it doesn't affect anything in DCS other than being on or off. However the Mode 3 transponder code can be set as-needed for LotATC and SRS.

[Dadzilla74]

Thanks Mate, I will test that out. At least I now know how to set the Squark code into Mode 3 if ever requested.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Mark McCosker

[Foka]

With LotATC and SRS all modes work great - M1, M3, M4, emergency codes, emergency switch, and Ident.

[Dadzilla74]

Its a pity that this is not explained very well in any of the DCS documents or manuals. Wags did not know much about this either. Thanks for all your help.

[Tholozor]

You can read about the system in the NATOPS, section 23.6.

[Bunny Clark]

4 hours ago, Dadzilla74 said:

Its a pity that this is not explained very well in any of the DCS documents or manuals. Wags did not know much about this either. Thanks for all your help.

At the moment, other than turning the system on, there's not much to explain. None of the settings actually do anything yet, it's all just for show. This is clearly still very much a WIP, not much point in adding it to a manual until there's more you can interact with and do stuff with. 

[Joni]

It would be really awesome if the Hornet had the simulation that the jf17 has currently.

 

Simple transponder and interrogator modes (combined in the Hornet CIT), nothing classified, just modes and codes, and the mode 4 encryption just a simple coalition A/B setting.

 

Just by doing that the immersion we will get gets really bumped up.

[Foka]

17 hours ago, Bunny Clark said:

At the moment, other than turning the system on, there's not much to explain. None of the settings actually do anything yet, it's all just for show. This is clearly still very much a WIP, not much point in adding it to a manual until there's more you can interact with and do stuff with. 

Not true. It does work as real, if you pair it wit LotATC and have live AWACS controller. He can see transponder codes, LotATC also reacts on emergency codes and Ident switch.

Without AWACS controller you don't need it anyways.

[Bunny Clark]

2 minutes ago, Foka said:

Not true. It does work as real, if you pair it wit LotATC and have live AWACS controller.

I have no expectation that a DCS manual would explain how to use a partially implemented feature to work with a mod. 

[Joni]

6 minutes ago, Foka said:

Not true. It does work as real, if you pair it wit LotATC and have live AWACS controller. He can see transponder codes, LotATC also reacts on emergency codes and Ident switch.

Without AWACS controller you don't need it anyways.

 

Lotac has nothing to do with DCS, so no, it doesn't work other than turning the system on. Bunny was right.

 

Lotac just uses UFC status like switches to know where the switch is or in this case what option and status the ufc has, in order to do things. Doesn't mean it works at all.

 

Regards.

 

 

[Foka]

Ok, how do you imagine using transponder in DCS alone? Plane-to-plane comms? What would you like it to do?

 

It does exactly what it should, simply combat aircracts are not receivers of these signals (with exception of Mode 4 - IFF - but IFF works fine).

 

"A transponder is an electronic device that produces a response when it receives a radio-frequency interrogation. Aircraft have transponders to assist in identifying them on air traffic control radar."

 

[Joni]

1 minute ago, Foka said:

Ok, how do you imagine using transponder in DCS alone? Plane-to-plane comms? What would you like it to do?

 

It does exactly what it should, simply combat aircracts are not receivers of these signals (with exception of Mode 4 - IFF - but IFF works fine).

 

"A transponder is an electronic device that produces a response when it receives a radio-frequency interrogation. Aircraft have transponders to assist in identifying them on air traffic control radar."

 

 

I know, thankfully xd

 

But you're wrong in many levels.

 

First fighters do use those modes, otherwise they could not operate in the skies of the free world

 

Second, plane to plane comms? What are you talking about? This is IFF thread. Sorry language barrier may be preventing me to catch what you are trying to say.

 

 

[Foka]

I don't know what JF17 has, I don't fly that module.

 

I can't find any reason plane would need be a receiver of transponder codes other then IFF. You have impemeted Mode 4 interrogation in Hornet.

In other words - what fuctionalities are missing? What transponder should do inside DCS, and it doesn't?

[Joni]

6 minutes ago, Foka said:

I don't know what JF17 has, I don't fly that module.

 

I can't find any reason plane would need be a receiver of transponder codes other then IFF. You have impemeted Mode 4 interrogation in Hornet.

In other words - what fuctionalities are missing? What transponder should do inside DCS, and it doesn't?

 

Ok, so forget about what module does what, as we're talking about real life behavior.

 

There are two parts in the IFF world, the transponder and the interrogator. The hornet has a CIT which is a combined module, but for all intended purposes its the same. The transponder responds to an interrogation, but you have to tell it what to respond. In other words you have to tell it what mode and what code inside that mode it has to respond to the interrogation. The interrogation also has to be in that same mode if the code is to work. If the interrogation is in mode 1 and you have set your transponder in mode 2 then the response will be taken as negative or no reply at all. 

 

The hornet and every other aircraft in dcs apart from the jf17 has a magic iff where no matter what you do with your aircraft it will always work fine, apart from turning the system on in some aircraft like the hornet, there is nothing else to do.

 

So we are missing a lot of the real life procedures counterpart. Selecting the mode to answer and to ask (transponder and interrogator), selecting the code or key, etc.

 

 

This video will help you more:

 

 

 

 

 

[Harker]

Other modes can be used to identify specific aircraft, flight missions, report altitude etc. The CIT can interrogate in all modes, which means that there's probably a way to get the results of such an interrogation (maybe in the TGT DATA page or in the Radar or Az/El formats).

Imagine that you know an allied flight is in front of you, but you don't know exactly where, they're mixed with other aircraft and you also don't have Link-16 (otherwise you can just get the a/c name from there). You can use their specific Mode 1 or Mode 2 codes to locate them. You interrogate the space in front of you and only their transponders send a reply back.

[Joni]

1 minute ago, Harker said:

Imagine that you know an allied flight is in front of you, but you don't know exactly where, they're mixed with other aircraft and you also don't have Link-16 (otherwise you can just get the a/c name from there). You can use their specific Mode 1 or Mode 2 codes to locate them. You interrogate the space in front of you and only their transponders send a reply back.

 

Yeap! Or they can use the IDENT function, or IP in the hornet.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Joni

[Harker]

 
Yeap! Or they can use the IDENT function, or IP in the hornet.

True, forgot about that. They have to be the ones to do it though.

[QuiGon]

4 hours ago, Harker said:

Other modes can be used to identify specific aircraft, flight missions, report altitude etc. The CIT can interrogate in all modes, which means that there's probably a way to get the results of such an interrogation (maybe in the TGT DATA page or in the Radar or Az/El formats).

Imagine that you know an allied flight is in front of you, but you don't know exactly where, they're mixed with other aircraft and you also don't have Link-16 (otherwise you can just get the a/c name from there). You can use their specific Mode 1 or Mode 2 codes to locate them. You interrogate the space in front of you and only their transponders send a reply back.

 

Exactly! It really saddens me that this functionality is not simulated in DCS, especially as another big fighter jet sim does that very well...

Edited January 14, 2021 by QuiGon

[Foka]

I can't agree with you.

 

AFAIK IFF is strictly on Mode 4 and it is implemented. Manually setting codes for IFF wouldn't be a game-wise. It could work in some kind of strict hard-core-milsim groups, but won't work on open servers or casual players, and if you would introduce Mode 4 programming most of players wouldn't do it and all bricks would appear as foes.

 

Modes 1, 2 and 3 are mainly in civilian use, but can be used by military planes to ID by controllers. Wide described use for modes in military is - Mode 1 to identyfy mission type, Mode 2 to identify unit, Mode 3 to identify aircraft.

 

In situation we have a data link I don't see need of A-A transponder interrogation. I also never heard of such function in real life (besides TCAS, but never heard of fighters equipped with TCAS).

[Joni]

1 hour ago, Foka said:

I can't agree with you.

 

AFAIK IFF is strictly on Mode 4 and it is implemented. Manually setting codes for IFF wouldn't be a game-wise. It could work in some kind of strict hard-core-milsim groups, but won't work on open servers or casual players, and if you would introduce Mode 4 programming most of players wouldn't do it and all bricks would appear as foes.

 

Modes 1, 2 and 3 are mainly in civilian use, but can be used by military planes to ID by controllers. Wide described use for modes in military is - Mode 1 to identyfy mission type, Mode 2 to identify unit, Mode 3 to identify aircraft.

 

In situation we have a data link I don't see need of A-A transponder interrogation. I also never heard of such function in real life (besides TCAS, but never heard of fighters equipped with TCAS).

 

Still wrong in every paragraph, sorry to be that guy

 

Modes 1 and 2 are military, not civilian.

 

Mode 4 is not implemented, instead a magic iff is hardcoded and just named mode 4 by wags in his hornet videos. If it was simulated you would have at least the need for setting the UFC right, tick mode4 and select which key to use, if you wanted it simplistic for classified purposes then ED could have made that all coalitions and aircraft within use the same A key for example but at least make you select it. Another way to see it is not simulted is the fact that you can touch the erase switches in the left console and nothing happens, oops and you still have IFF. Now all you have to do is turn it on and no matter what you touch it will "work".

 

Can you see finally why this is not simulated and why this thread goes on?

 

Regards.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Joni