Flanker Sensor Logic

[jackmckay]

Can someone explain sensors logic in Flanker? I visually see the target on Datalink inside 10km range, spot plane and turn on HMS to point at target with EOS, trying to lock but without success even target is burning AB. Same thing with Radar ON - it just wont lock anything in HMS mode. Locking targets that visually appear in sight is immposible beyond 10km and at that point enemy is well within his engagement no escape zone. So what are the sensors limitations here? What will guide and aquire targets on egg ET max range? Comparing to other HMS systems Flanker system effectiveness is drastically reduced. What is RL data behind this sensor ability reduction logic in DCS? I dont get it but trying hard to figure out this. Was this intentional for some reason?

[BlackPixxel]

As soon as radar is enabled in the close combat modes (either radar only or radar + IRST) it will only use the radar for scanning, and it will skip every target beyond 10 km.

 

The 10 km maximum range for the radar in the close combat modes is from the real world MiG-29 manual.

 

 

That still does not explain why the IRST has a reduced detection range in the close combat modes in DCS.

[jackmckay]

Try it for yourself. It doesnt radar lock what is visually observed even within 10km. VSM works within 5km in EOS but anything else and beyond is just immposibble to aquire if not using BVR Radar modes. Combat value of Flanker is drastically invalidated by my observation by this sensor ability reduction. I believe that RL technical spec of Flanker onboard equipment has different ranges than one in DCS. Im deeply dissapointed.

[Cmptohocah]

2 hours ago, jackmckay said:

Can someone explain sensors logic in Flanker? I visually see the target on Datalink inside 10km range, spot plane and turn on HMS to point at target with EOS, trying to lock but without success even target is burning AB. Same thing with Radar ON - it just wont lock anything in HMS mode. Locking targets that visually appear in sight is immposible beyond 10km and at that point enemy is well within his engagement no escape zone. So what are the sensors limitations here? What will guide and aquire targets on egg ET max range? Comparing to other HMS systems Flanker system effectiveness is drastically reduced. What is RL data behind this sensor ability reduction logic in DCS? I dont get it but trying hard to figure out this. Was this intentional for some reason?

I must say that I have experienced the same thing my self.

 

What I usually do, is after the HMS fails, I switch back to search mode and if there is nothing there either I switch then to vertical scan. Bore-sight mode fails to lock the target the same way as the HMS.

 

I don't know if there was some change or not, but I am having huge issues picking up targets that are close and in front of me. In TacView you can usually see me flying straight (scan mode), then couple of aileron rolls (vertical scan mode) and then a "Split-S" (nothing found, save my own ass).

Edited January 8, 2021 by Cmptohocah

[Max1mus]

On 1/8/2021 at 11:01 AM, BlackPixxel said:

The 10 km maximum range for the radar in the close combat modes is from the real world MiG-29 manual.S.

Is it that low on Su-27? Once you have aircraft like JF-17 and F-16 that are not detectable until inside 10km, this means that Su-27 has the weakest set of close combat modes compared to all other 4th gens. Mostly since there is no such thing as PAL or wide aquisition.

[Ironhand]

IDK. You can lock a rear aspect, fighter sized target flying roughly 610 km/hr (no afterburner) in excess of 25 km.

[Max1mus]

Head on is a different story, against F-16, F-18 and JF-17 you will not detect anything before youre dead to his missile. People always say IRST is overperforming, since clouds and flares should affect it (chaff should affect radars too), but the heat generated by high speeds is not modelled at all. At low air humidity and against the sky, OLS should spot a fighter much earlier than on the deck.

[Ironhand]

Head on, then, is about right. Target lock for an aspect of 5-15° is approximately 10km according to the manual.

[BlackPixxel]

18 hours ago, Max1mus said:

Is it that low on Su-27? Once you have aircraft like JF-17 and F-16 that are not detectable until inside 10km, this means that Su-27 has the weakest set of close combat modes compared to all other 4th gens. Mostly since there is no such thing as PAL or wide aquisition.

 

Su-27SK manual mentions vertical scan to be used for visible target up to 5 km, so even less.

 

BUT: It does not mean that the radar in the real one would ignore other targets. Overstratos from RB wrote that there is no 10 km limit in the real MiG-29, and it can lock target beyond that range in vertical scan.

 

So the ranges mentioned in the manual are most likely just recommendations for when you would use this mode. And that is usually to lock a target that you saw with your own eyes, not just to point it at datalink targets and hope for the best, like it is mostly done in DCS.

[Ironhand]

Just stopped back to note that aspect does matter. With an aspect of 20°, the lock range went from 10km (for 5-15°) to 15+km.