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FSSB force and curves settings?


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hey guys, what should be the best setting of force to set in the stick program and the curves to set within DCS to mimic the best the jet? 

standard factory forces in the fssb seems high making the jet feels slugish so I dialed them down. 

Also I m with negative curves and some saturation to makes it more alive 

but... 

what will be a realistic curve and force profile? 

 

Thanks

 

BR

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Controlers TM f/a 18 stick on Virpil warbrd base, TM cougar f16 stick on cougar base, Cougar F16 throttle on TUSBA, ch pedals, TM cougar MFD

 

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I run zero curves and it feels good to me, and felt pretty good to my brother (who used to fly the RDAF F-16AM) when he tried it, although I have my force levels turned down a bit in the stick software, (7.2lb roll, 13lb pitch). Also remember if you're using a side-stick setup you want the 12 degree rotation as per the real stick. So you want to set -12 degrees in the FSSB software. This rotates all the axis around clockwise slightly so to pull pure pitch you just pull your hand towards your body, not "aft" towards the back of the aircraft. Sounds weird but feels totally natural for side stick. The FSSB software also allows to set different full deflection forces for left and right roll (NASA Roll Sensibility), Most people are much stronger rolling left than they are right, so adjusting the number higher makes it easier to roll right to compensate, I adjusted mine until full deflection in both directions felt about the same and the setting I like is 140% but your mileage my vary.

 

Hope that's useful. 

 

 

Attached is pic of F-16 12deg stick rotation btw. 

 

Pitch-Roll input axes - F-16 Design & Construction


Edited by Deano87

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Angle adjust -12°

NASA Roll sensibility = 133% and the same for pitch (if you don't like it then try 110-133%).

I've got roll sensibility at 4,33lb and pitch sens at 8,5lb and it's working pretty well for me. Should be around the same ratio as in the real plane give or take. I used a setting by another user who tried to get near the real ratio and adjusted it slightly for my liking. It's a pretty good force to pull. If you're setting the stick to be too sensitive, you are sacrificing fine control. If you want to pull hard on the stick you will have to work for it. Additionally that setting depends on your mounting surface. I'm getting slight movement of the mount already using this amount of force.

 

BFA roll and pitch to minimum as recommended in the manual (if you have not read it yet, do so. It's quite detailed) - it's like a dead zone so just resting your hand on the stick does not give "ghost" inputs.

Personal preference but my warning sound level is 90%.

 

If you're trying to keep the realism you should not use any curves in DCS or otherwise. The plane's designers put some thought into that decision and I really think it's better to keep it linear. If you need different sensitivity the plane will automatically provide that (like in landing or air to air refueling modes).


Edited by PhiXX
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Thanks guys, thatvs a good start. 

 

Will try those settings andd see how it goes. 

 

I agree with the comment saying that in dcs, flight models are simulated to be the closest with no curve and I dont have any on the f14 or f18 but this fssb being a different animal.... 

 

Thanks anyway. Will check those  settings.

Any Nasa for pitch too? 

 

 

BR

Rig: MB Gigabite z390UD, CPU Intel I7 8700k, RAM 32G DDR4 3200 Gskill ripjaws, GPU MSI RTX2080SuperOC, HDD Crucial mx500 1tb M2 sata, PSU Corsair 850W, watercooling Corsair h100,

 

Controlers TM f/a 18 stick on Virpil warbrd base, TM cougar f16 stick on cougar base, Cougar F16 throttle on TUSBA, ch pedals, TM cougar MFD

 

27" monitor with trk IR 5 and HP Reverb HMD.

 

 

Modules F18, F16, F86, Mig15, FW 190D9, Nellis range map, Aggr campaign, Middle East map

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45 minutes ago, VIXEN413 said:

I agree with the comment saying that in dcs, flight models are simulated to be the closest with no curve and I dont have any on the f14 or f18 but this fssb being a different animal.... 

 

Thanks anyway. Will check those  settings.

Any Nasa for pitch too?

What I meant is that (as far as I know) there is no curve in the real plane, so we should not use a curve with the fssb - especially as it such a high grade controller. You gain precision by increasing the maximum pull force. If your mounting solution allows for it put it as high as possible while trying to achieve the roll/pull ratio Deano87 provided. A curve will only confuse.

Apart from any (possible) in-development inaccuracies of the Viper implementation in DCS, these settings should be all you need to get accurate controlls. Any other control adjustments in DCS would be unrealistic (and probably not useful).

 

NASA pitch same as roll. Try 133% it should serve you well in my opinion.


Edited by PhiXX
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AFAIK DCS do model the DFLCS built-in command gradient, that is 32lbs for pitch and 17.57lbs for roll, including software breakout (deadzone). So it's better to use no curve for FSSB settings.

 

Note that you only need 25lbs to command 9G, while DCS models a full range of 32lbs, which means the g command will saturate at 78.125% simulated stick force range.

 

The F-16 DFLCS command gradients:

stick force.jpg

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On 1/8/2021 at 12:36 AM, Deano87 said:

I run zero curves and it feels good to me, and felt pretty good to my brother (who used to fly the RDAF F-16AM) when he tried it, although I have my force levels turned down a bit in the stick software, (7.2lb roll, 13lb pitch). Also remember if you're using a side-stick setup you want the 12 degree rotation as per the real stick. So you want to set -12 degrees in the FSSB software. This rotates all the axis around clockwise slightly so to pull pure pitch you just pull your hand towards your body, not "aft" towards the back of the aircraft. Sounds weird but feels totally natural for side stick. The FSSB software also allows to set different full deflection forces for left and right roll (NASA Roll Sensibility), Most people are much stronger rolling left than they are right, so adjusting the number higher makes it easier to roll right to compensate, I adjusted mine until full deflection in both directions felt about the same and the setting I like is 140% but your mileage my vary.

 

Hope that's useful. 

 

 

Attached is pic of F-16 12deg stick rotation btw. 

 

Pitch-Roll input axes - F-16 Design & Construction

 

 

Do I miss something about the rotation, in my case -12 rotates it counter clockwise and 12 rotates it clockwise ?

 

image.png

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Yes Rotation wants to be -12, not +12.

+12 will mean youll need to pull back and right to get pure pitch command rather than back and left (towards your body).

In the FSSB Software the Black lines are showing you the final output. And grey lines are showing you the raw data coming from the sensor. I agree its not intuitive.

 

Also IMPORTANT tip that I rememberred, turn BFA Roll and Pitch to OFF and then instead use a small deadzone in DCS to add a small breakout force around the centre. The reason for this is that BFA is applied BEFORE the axis gets rotated, instead of after. Which actually fights against you getting pure pitch or roll inputs.


Edited by Deano87

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PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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1 hour ago, Deano87 said:

Yes Rotation wants to be -12, not +12.

+12 will mean youll need to pull back and right to get pure pitch command rather than back and left (towards your body).

In the FSSB Software the Black lines are showing you the final output. And grey lines are showing you the raw data coming from the sensor. I agree its not intuitive.

 

Also IMPORTANT tip that I rememberred, turn BFA Roll and Pitch to OFF and then instead use a small deadzone in DCS to add a small breakout force around the centre. The reason for this is that BFA is applied BEFORE the axis gets rotated, instead of after. Which actually fights against you getting pure pitch or roll inputs.

 

In the picture I have it set to +12 and I have to pull slightly left (towards me) to get pitch. If I set it -12 then it rotates the opposite and I have to pull back and right, so it seems to be the opposite.

 

For the BFA I didn't know that, will try it out 👍

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Huh.. Perhapse they changed it with the newest drivers?

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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3 minutes ago, Deano87 said:

Huh.. Perhapse they changed it with the newest drivers?

I dunno really, not that it matters tho. Might be that I am using TM warthog grip so the software is slightly different ?

 

 

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1 minute ago, metzger said:

I dunno really, not that it matters tho. Might be that I am using TM warthog grip so the software is slightly different ?

 

 

I'm using a Warthog grip as well. So no idea...

Just to confirm you pull back and left and the Red dot moves down the black line in the middle, correct?

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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3 minutes ago, Deano87 said:

I'm using a Warthog grip as well. So no idea...

Just to confirm you pull back and left and the Red dot moves down the black line in the middle, correct?

Affirm yes.

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Just now, metzger said:

Affirm yes.

Ah.. they must have changed it. That's great lol. 😂

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PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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Just now, Deano87 said:

Ah.. they must have changed it. That's great lol. 😂

No no no, sorry I am stupid, 😂 just tested again. It goes down the grey line which is wrong I suppose. With -12 I pull back and left to make it go the black line... 

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Phew.. I'm not going crazy then. lol.

It might fly a bit better with it at -12 😉

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Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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3 hours ago, Deano87 said:

Also IMPORTANT tip that I rememberred, turn BFA Roll and Pitch to OFF and then instead use a small deadzone in DCS to add a small breakout force around the centre. The reason for this is that BFA is applied BEFORE the axis gets rotated, instead of after. Which actually fights against you getting pure pitch or roll inputs.

 

Interesting! Thanks for the advice. What have you set your deadzone at in DCS?

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Can't check right now but I know its very small, low single digits. You can tune it and find something that feels nice.

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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