Maps are overpriced!

[Shadoware]

Im not wanting to complain because I think DCS developers deserve their earnings but I think ED needs to rethink this:

A single DCS map is costing the same as a full game if we compare to other games!

I dont know how this goes in many countries but here, only the Syria map cost the same as Red Dead Redemption 2 alone or more than ILS battle for Stalingrad alone! Its cost the same as Cyberpunk 2077 or the same as new Microsoft flight simulator! (Actually in many sales you could get one of those referred games for half the price!)

What do you think about that guys?

 

[BIGNEWY]

Sorry you dont feel it is worth the price, we feel for the amount of work that goes into the projects it is a fair price, we also have regular sales.

 

If you are from a region with a poor US dollar rate we understand it can be difficult. 

 

thanks

 

 

[xAzDKr]

1 hour ago, Shadoware said:

Im not wanting to complain because I think DCS developers deserve their earnings but I think ED needs to rethink this:

A single DCS map is costing the same as a full game if we compare to other games!

I dont know how this goes in many countries but here, only the Syria map cost the same as Red Dead Redemption 2 alone or more than ILS battle for Stalingrad alone! Its cost the same as Cyberpunk 2077 or the same as new Microsoft flight simulator! (Actually in many sales you could get one of those referred games for half the price!)

What do you think about that guys?

 

 

just wait for a sale, they're super frequent any often times anywhere between 20-40% off depending on how recent it is

 

The amount of effort required to go into a map is astounding, and the playerbase is not nearly the same size as AAA titles such as RDR2, Cyberpunk, etc. 

 

I feel that the prices are justified and especially so during a sale. 

[Hartsfield_Matt]

In my humble opinion a single DCS map is more enjoyable than any of the games you mentioned. I realize it may sound insane, but I'd pay MORE. 

[Rudel_chw]

4 hours ago, Shadoware said:

What do you think about that guys?

you are comparing dcs with a mainstream game that has 15 times more users ... mayBe you don’t know about economies of scale, but basically dcs is a niche product and so its development costs have to be paid by a smaller user base, so each of us has to pay more than users of more mainstream games. 

 

In spite of this, I always purchase new maps, because a new map improves the experience of every other dcs aircraft that I already have ... in that sense, a map is more fulfilling than a new aircraft module.

[Worg]

 

Français

Anglais

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Red dead does what? 20km by 20km.
How much does the Syria map make?
You compare a game already finished in terms of presence to a simulator that has been present for 10 years.

You compare a company that generates billions to a company that takes care of its users.

I have many more hours of play on a Syria map where the only limit in terms of history is my imagination, than that of a red dead or Cyberpunk which once finished ends up in second hand sale.

40 euros for a call of duty or fifa ... Here is the absolute scam.

The work on its maps is enormous, and personally I did not find it expensive.

[Rudel_chw]

Why do you use this gigantic font? .. it's a pain to try to read your post 

 

[NineLine]

On 1/6/2021 at 9:18 AM, Shadoware said:

I dont know how this goes in many countries but here, only the Syria map cost the same as Red Dead Redemption 2 alone or more than ILS battle for Stalingrad alone! Its cost the same as Cyberpunk 2077 or the same as new Microsoft flight simulator! (Actually in many sales you could get one of those referred games for half the price!)

What do you think about that guys?

 

How long would it take to travers the entire Syria map on horse back? I wonder. RDR2 was great, dont get me wrong, I enjoy Rockstars stuff, but its a different genre than us.

The other games you list are a much different market as well, Cyberpunk is a here today gone tomorrow type game, MSFS is great for what it does, but the ground/maps are not meant to be interacted with like DCS Maps need to be, so more detail, coding and work need to go into DCS map objects, and their interaction with aircraft, ground units and weapon systems.

SO while those games charge what they need to for the amount of work that goes into them, we feel the same, that we need to have the same return on investment. We are creating a new free map to be available shortly and we have sales all the time. 

 

So yes, are maps can be as much as another game can be, but comparing two very different goals isnt fair either.

[Worg]

3 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

Why do you use this gigantic font? .. it's a pain to try to read your post 

 

Sorry. It's the automatic translator who does this. I'm French. I can't change the handwriting from the phone. Yet there I write from my computer, it works well. This has been the case since the arrival of the new forum. 

[Shadoware]

On 1/6/2021 at 2:26 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Sorry you dont feel it is worth the price, we feel for the amount of work that goes into the projects it is a fair price, we also have regular sales.

 

If you are from a region with a poor US dollar rate we understand it can be difficult. 

 

thanks

 

 

Yeah. The dollar exchange rate make us here to pay 5 times more! Terrible!

Despite that, if we compare it to other simulators like MS flight Simulator, a single DCS map is still expansive!

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, Shadoware said:

Yeah. The dollar exchange rate make us here to pay 5 times more! Terrible!

Despite that, if we compare it to other simulators like MS flight Simulator, a single DCS map is still expansive!

We understand the dollar exchange is not good in some regions, and it is a difficult issue, local pricing was abused by the grey and black market.

 

Appreciate your feedback, as mentioned for the time and effort we and third parties put into terrains we feel it is a fair price.

I hope in the future things become easier for you in your region and maybe change you mind about a purchase. 

 

thank you

[Rudel_chw]

22 minutes ago, Worg said:

Sorry. It's the automatic translator who does this. I'm French. 

ahh, ok, thanks for explaining

[Dangerzone]

9 hours ago, Shadoware said:

Despite that, if we compare it to other simulators like MS flight Simulator, a single DCS map is still expansive!

 

Not sure if you've considered the other posts that mention economics. I did a quick search and in the last 30 days MSFS had a little over 12,000 players online, via steam charts. DCS World latest list had ~2,100 players (after a quick google). That doesn't account for those playing off-steam (which both MS and DCS would have)... but just on steam players pool - this gives some sort of indication of the budget MS have in comparison to DCS just based on steam buyers... so I think a comparison even with MS isn't a realistic expectation. 

 

The maps might be expensive compared to others, but they're priced to where they need to be for DCS to continue to develop into the future and look after their staff. DCS is niche, and as a result each user will need to pitch in more for the same results.

[Cpt Cuckoo]

On 1/8/2021 at 4:37 AM, NineLine said:

How long would it take to travers the entire Syria map on horse back?

Funny you should ask that question because that was the first thing I thought of when I heard the size of the Syria map which is about 300,000 SQ Miles

 

  Several of the cattle ranches on which I rode horseback for as a Cowboy were about 3,000 SQ miles. One was the ZX Ranch out of Oregon which is about 140 miles X 65 miles at the largest points.  I remember taking about 2,000 head of cattle from the northern reaches of the ranch down to about Paisley, Oregon. Which is not quite all the way to the southern end.

Much of the way there was not even a trail to follow because it had never been done before. We used topographical maps!  That trip will all those cattle and being ahorseback took us 10 cowboys about a week.

 

Here is a rare photo of that journey taken from the saddle by me from about the middle of the herd. I was riding "swing" that day. (So there was that many cattle behind me as in front) The cattle had lined out to almost single file, in a line about 5 or 6 miles long. There was an old dirt track here so this part was easy.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Cpt Cuckoo
i forgot something ..duh!

[Mars Exulte]

^ That was a great story, btw.

 

I grew up in Texas more or less urbanised, but have heard stories about my grandfather and greatgrandfather, the latter drove freight wagons cross country (the then equivalent of a trucker, I suppose) and the few photos I've seen of him he's always armed cause at the time Indian raids on caravans were still a thing. Pistol on his hip and rifle across his lap.

[Cpt Cuckoo]

Well...we had occasion to carry firearms....but not for Indians of course.  First photo is just crossing the Owyhee River out looking for sign of cattle. Second is how we train our saddle horses line up on "the ropes" and wait, while catch the ones we want with a lariat. We take these ropes and set them up staked out like that in the next camp.  Third is just us in the corral at the home ranch.  Fourth - is saddling up at first light. The horse in front was on my string. I used to  hobble his front legs like that with burlap so you could get your saddle on or off him. These were taken around 2000 - 2002.   Your grandfather was a tougher man than any of us.

[Cpt Cuckoo]

33 minutes ago, zhukov032186 said:

^ That was a great story, btw.

 

I grew up in Texas more or less urbanised, but have heard stories about my grandfather and greatgrandfather, the latter drove freight wagons cross country (the then equivalent of a trucker, I suppose) and the few photos I've seen of him he's always armed cause at the time Indian raids on caravans were still a thing. Pistol on his hip and rifle across his lap.

I'll prolly get in trouble for posting those off topic photos above.  Sheees! But somebody should see some of these things. It still goes on today.  Oh hell I guess i should delete that post.  I tell you what, mods, I'll buy the "overpriced" Syria map as punishment!

[Yurgon]

On 1/6/2021 at 6:18 PM, Shadoware said:

A single DCS map is costing the same as a full game if we compare to other games!

 

I think a metric that wasn't yet mentioned is the return on investment you get out of it, or the bang for the buck, so to speak.

 

You'll spend a certain amount of time flying DCS in those terrains, and then you divide that by the the money you spent on it. The ratio will only get better over the years.

 

Basically, if you fly 50 hours in Syria, you'll be down to a buck for an hour, but of course that same metric also needs to work with your local currency, so in your case you'd have to put in 250 hours for your equivalent of one dollar per hour.

 

I've spent some 80 or so hours in Cyberpunk, and I may eventually get back to playing some more since I've finished the main storyline, but I enjoy the world and the game too much to just put it aside. But with DCS, the dollar per hour metric is fantastically better for me than almost any other game I've ever played. And while that is not yet true for the Syria map for me, it probably will be in the future.

 

So do you like the terrain? Do you think you'll be spending a lot of time there? How much content (missions, campaigns) does it have and how much has been announced to come soon? Is it popular in MP? There are lots of ways to measure it, and comparing it against other games is just one of these ways.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Yurgon
Typo

[shagrat]

On 1/7/2021 at 9:56 PM, Shadoware said:

Yeah. The dollar exchange rate make us here to pay 5 times more! Terrible!

Despite that, if we compare it to other simulators like MS flight Simulator, a single DCS map is still expansive!

 Compared to MSFS "Map" it's also much, much, much more detailed on ground level. I am not talking about the MSFS handcrafted airports, these are on par with DCS, but in DCS basically 80-90% of the maps are handmodelled to that level.

As soon as MSFS will introduce helicopters and people fly a lot more nap of the earth and slow, this will become more and more obvious.

I am not saying that one or the other is "better". We need to understand that MSFS' terrain engine is very different from DCS' and while automated "processing" of the whole world with "photogrammetry areas" is great from 5,000 ft and above and is perfect for long range VFR/IFR flights it isn't something you want to look at through a TGP, or do from a hover at tree top level, while DCS isn't a 100% accurate representation of the real towns with more generic, but far more detailed cities, towns and a unique texture blending technology that makes it "work" for combat from 0 to 35,000 ft altitude.

In DCS we pay for the manual work going into handcrafting the majority of the map.

Compared to the price you usually pay for a single "handcrafted airstrip" of 5km x 10km etc. the price for a 500km bex 500km map is, let's say competitive...

[Ala13_ManOWar]

So different they are, indeed. Just wait until Microsoft shut down their servers once they decide revenue isn't worth it, not like it didn't happen before, right?, and you'll see the difference between having a hand crafted map on your hard drive and a cloud one .

 

S!

[NineLine]

While its true we have lightened the limiting of 1.15, lets not poop on any other sims too hard, or our own for that matter

Our goals are much different than other companies, so solutions for terrain may differ as well. 

[Steel Jaw]

Given the replay value of the add on maps, Im okay with the pricing and, as well, the Marianas one will be free.

[Rudel_chw]

30 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

So different they are, indeed. Just wait until Microsoft shut down their servers once they decide revenue isn't worth it, not like it didn't happen before, right?, and you'll see the difference between having a hand crafted map on your hard drive and a cloud one .

 

Sorry to burst the bubble, but DCS is no different ... if ever Eagle Dynamics goes out of business, our DCS installs will cease to function pretty quickly, just disconnect from the Internet to have a quick glimpse of how DCS is dependent on ED's Servers.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Rudel_chw

[Ala13_ManOWar]

11 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Sorry to burst the bubble, but DCS is no different ... if ever Eagle Dynamics goes out of business, our DCS installs will cease to function pretty quickly, just disconnect from the Internet to have a quick glimpse of how DCS is dependent on ED's Servers.

 

Well, yes, and no, a no internet connection crack would appear quickly, even by ED itself as a last thing if they go out of business, eliminating the necessity for internet connection in order to play the game for more than three days. It would be offline only but you would retain your paid content. On the other hand, FS2020 would be pretty much useless with low res maps and stuff, which of course in time would be hacked and everything for the community to keep it up and running, but those gorgeous textures would be gone for ever anyway since anybody can hack petabites of data into your personal PC. DCS is already in your hard drive the whole of it.

 

12 hours ago, NineLine said:

While its true we have lightened the limiting of 1.15, lets not poop on any other sims too hard, or our own for that matter

Our goals are much different than other companies, so solutions for terrain may differ as well. 

Fair enough .

 

S!

Edited February 18, 2021 by Ala13_ManOWar

[Mizzy]

I find that the Syrian map is a game in itself like someone said above, it's limited only by your imagination. Remember this is a military combat flight simulation not Cyber punk. Having said that, I don't use the combat element in DCS, I just like military jets and navigate from one place to another. Can't wait for the new clouds as DCS will be a completely new game for me !!

 

Mizzy