Huey gunners should not have to own the module

[Dangerzone]

3 minutes ago, Concentric Arc said:

Yup agreed, I do actually get it. After buying some modules and "trying" to learn to fly them, LoL. Which I alluded to, in one of my replies already. And I do enjoy playing this Sim very much. Which is why I want to see it continue to grow. We all know what happens to stagnant companies...

 

Fantastic to hear, and I agree. I think that's what most posts in this thread are really about... wanting to see it grow and more players on servers. I've been encouraged seeing numerous posts here considering what's better for the larger community, wanting to see DCS grow, who are trying to be flexible, listening to concerns and coming up with different solutions to address those concerns raised.

 

In contrast I have observed some comments that are more worried about suppressing people's access if they don't invest as much as themselves, or don't use DCS for what they think it should be used for... even if those changes won't truly affects them. And unlike those here that are putting forward potential solutions to concerns raised - it seems they try to find ways of placing obstacles in the path to stop other people's enjoyment instead of constructive and practical suggestions and/or solutions. (I say putting in obstacles because solutions to those obstacles have been ignored as though they weren't real concerns, but just a tool to try and derail the conversation).

 

I think maybe part of that may come from the title of this thread - which I think is unfortunate. It may have angered some as it comes across as being demanding or expecting... rather than requesting, but I think the majority of posts here show most requests to be opened minded, and it's opened up a forum for some creative ideas. 

 

I  think the reasoning some propose here from those being upset about contributing to a module that someone else might benefit a small part in for free or for a cheaper price doesn't really fit within ED's normal business concerns, and thankfully DCS haven't listened to that negativity in the past. If they did, and DCS took on that same ideas then I expect: 

• ED would never have had free content because that has also been paid and subsidized for by other paying users
• ED would never have introduced discounted sales, because those who have purchased the module at full price are subsidizing those who get the discount. 
• ED would never have added Combined Arms because it's not a flight simulator and people using DCS should want to learn to fly a flight simulator.
• ED would never have had free access periods because they might spam up servers and ruin the game for others.

Rather, the road ED has paved so far fall closer in line with what most are suggesting here - making more content more accessible to a wider audience without truly negatively impacting the main community, keeping DCS affordable and making a good profit at the same time.

 

 

I just want to see DCS get more traction. As mentioned in another post on another thread, I've owned both numerous other flight simulators and didn't know of DCS's existence until about 9 months ago and that was word of mouth. That's where my perspective is coming from - introducing more people to it one by one. It certainly seemed that gunner access might be a good suggestion to run with to get some more 'word of mouth' people interested.

 

But either way - as this suggestion fall more inline with ED's path in the past (free content, and access to users who don't fly such as combined arms) I am encouraged - and optimistic that (provided it's practical and not costly to implement) - it will be seriously considered at some stage in the future by ED. 

[Concentric Arc]

14 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

I've been encouraged seeing numerous posts here considering what's better for the larger community, wanting to see DCS grow, who are trying to be flexible, listening to concerns and coming up with different solutions to address those concerns raised.

 

Cheers! On a side note I just made my first clean landing in the F16C!!!! One day I will progress to the combat stage of this Flight Sim.

[=475FG= Dawger]

6 hours ago, Concentric Arc said:

I'm sure there would be an option so you don't have to worry about introducing "Free Loaders" (customers) to the game. I mean hell, when you go and buy a car do you not test drive it. Maybe all dealerships should require everyone to buy their car, to be a passenger in it? Do you tell your friends to give you money every time they get on board? And nobody is asking them to give full access to a module, at least not that I read. 

Oh and nobody is "TELLING" anyone to do anything. People like you and I are giving our opinions. Guess what our opinions aren't the same...Big deal.

ED does "test drives". We just had an extended period of free access to modules. I still see no reason to give away door gunner access.

[Fri13]

17 hours ago, Concentric Arc said:

Reaching new customers, you didn't know you had, sounds like good business practice to me. I am new to the game. When I saw the price of the modules, I was like woaH...Luckily I came in during the last sale, that helped out a lot. After playing it for a while I understand the prices somewhat. Still not sure if i will spend too much money on full price modules. Player influx is good for business, I have seen too many games die over the years.

 

IMHO there are too many sales, and sales can have way too high price cuts for it. I think that -50% is just too much. When you have 4-6 times a year sales, it means that people will stop buying or at least avoid bying at any other time than when sales are. If there is sale every 2-3 months, then it is basically too much. You cut your full price value right there. It is like saying to customer that comes back on next day as then price is -30%. No, if you are in to the business, you are to do profit. And if you value your work too high, you will price it too high. If you value your work too low, then you price it too low. And if you demand a lot but you constantly offer your services/products at -50% or -30% prices, then that means people will learn that you are asking too much as they can get it for lower price, and that becomes as new base value they are ready to pay by various reasons, like others recommend to wait for next sale etc. As who want to pay extra if they can get it at lower price little later?

 

This is why I do like the idea of Early Access phase where you pay -20% off, where -30% is IMHO little too much. There shouldn't be special prices for Pre-Order, as you get access to the module anyways same time as others.

But -50% price cuts are just too much in big batch sales. Be it here and there, like once a year some special offer for -30% for Huey for week, and then on next month -20% for a Hornet. But that you run almost one month sale with -50% it is just crazy.

 

It leads to situation that no one should ever recommend anyone to pay full price but just sit couple months and save money. As those who have challenge to put 80 for a module, they happily wait two months, save some more and then buy two for price of one. It is lost deal for two studios as they got just half the price.

 

In other games you might pay even a $20 to just change your name in the game. That is crazy! Especially when full license costs only $40. You pay for cents to couple dollars for some skins or something, that people gladly pay. Most expensive skins can cost hundreds of dollars if not even close to thousand. Yet sales history show that in a week there can be 50 of such purchases in those games.

 

The DCS World is fairly special ones, as it is not a game based to trends. It is not something that you get to see a "2.0" on next year for new 69.99 price. It is years if not decade worth of investment to enterntain one self. And meanwhile ED is updating, developing further the whole game. And if ED doesn't get enough income from module sales and their military contracts, they might need to start asking money for the upgrades as addition. The A-10C II for 9.90 was great deal for many as after 10 years you got basically new aircraft.

But demanding too much is always a problem.

 

When one needs to explain DCS World to others, it is difficult first for many to gasp the idea that each module are individual games of that specific aircraft. As the quality and the depth that each module provides is something that very rare thing in game business really do.

 

And these module features are what factors the prices in, like Yak-52 can never be priced same way as F/A-18C. Never. The features, capabilities etc that Hornet provides is something else than Yak can ever do.

 Why I would even see Hornet to get price increase when completed from 79.90 to 99 just because what it offers.

The Yak-52 is a trainer, and it is difficult to sell a trainer in a flight simulator. Like why you would? You can crash so many times you want in simulator that it doesn't matter. There is no risks involved to start learning in Hornet the flight and skip the trainers all together. In real life one can't start in Hornet but they go through the flight school in proper manner from primary, basic to advance for what you want to fly. Like why? Even when a fact is that learning to fly L-39 properly will give skills that any flight will require. So one would benefit a lot about first buying a L-39 and then use that for a year and then buy their first real module... But no. People don't do that.

 

And that is why trainer aircrafts are likely more difficult to sell as people don't see value in them. Like why to take a L-39 if wanted to do combat, when its combat capabilities are niche compared to Hornet?

 

A flight school or flight club can purchase two licenses of L-39 to have two PC to fly with trainee. A experienced pilot can literally sit behind the trainee as in simulator and go through the process, before going to real L-39 or between lessons. Great way to teach new pilots.

But who want to do that at home?

 

Now take the UH-1. It can be argued same thing for the pilot and co-pilot thing. Great thing to train first hand or get away from the rough start.

There was even nice post from some forum member who had flown Huey and got as surprise gift a flight lessons for real one, and nailed it in first flight because all the experience he got from flying in DCS. Simulation -> Real world practice = amazing.

 

And now we are talking that what does the door gunners offer in DCS? What is their value, what is the purpose of them?

The RIO in F-14 totally has far more to do than just sit there and spot enemies in dog fight.

I do not see the door gunners to be at high value at all to buy the Huey.

I purchased L-39 not to be a rear seater and to flip front seat hood up and down etc. But I bought it for own training purposes. But I would love to install DCS World for some friends, ask them to install L-39 and offer them a free ride from the rear seat (they sitting in front seat) and be able do that only when I am with them there. That I can at any given time take control of the aircragt but let them try flying etc and traing together.

Eventually if they get interested, they would be either required purchase L-39 to fly solo, or they would buy something else and start learning that.

 

The Huey door gunner value comes from the Co-Op. And to be able do Co-Op, someone needs to be a pilot. That is the value in the module - someone flies the helicopter with you.

 

What is own question totally is that should the door gunner position be available for anyone who has an AI flying the Huey? As one doesn't need license to install Huey, just to have it available to jump in.

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Concentric Arc said:

 

Would you rather sell one widget at $80 or 10 widgets at 40. Who all have a friend. I looked at the amount of servers when I first came on and was like wow cool. Then I saw the population and was like Oh...Zero people on these 600 servers 1 person on these other 400 servers etc. etc.

 

DCS World is not really a multiplayer game. The huge majority of the customers are in Single Player. And that is where the business is done. Why all the multiplayer features are more or less of a "nice to have" than a benefactor. Meaning, the co-op in the aircraft is already fairly niche target audience to begin with.

 

And that is problem, that needs fixing. And it doesn't get fixed by requiring everyone to own the license for the module that has basically nothing to do in flight.

Like the Mi-8MTv2 already has three seats in the cockpit. The flight engineer is responsible in start-up and shut-down phases, as well in flight to manage the Auto Pilot so pilot or co-pilot doesn't need to do that. The co-pilot is there with the pilot for combat tasks, selecting the payloads, assisting to calculate the sight parameters etc.

If we would demand a own license for the co-pilot and flight engineer (as we do), it would drop the flight engineer licenses if one couldn't fly the helicopter in that seat (your input is registered so you can sit there and fly helicopter regardless that seat has none!) then no one would likely ever buy such license for it. But the license in those modules is that you can switch between any seat there is. Like F-14 doesn't come with two license to purchase as pilot and RIO, but you get to be either one you want. And for Single Player purposes Heatblur was required to develop their Jester AI to operate RIO seat at some level.

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Concentric Arc said:

I have been trying to get some friends interested in the game. When they see the module prices, they basically repeat the price back to me and laugh in the same breath...Now if I could show them some more of the modules like the full on simulated modules. Get them having fun,well who knows. I mean flying around a map with a chopper, full of your friends yelling "get some" would be a blast. And you know, it wouldn't be long before one of them wanted the pilot seat. I could be introducing the newest whale to the game who buys all the modules...

 

Exactly. The Free Weekend and Free period must have been good decision by the ED. That likely has lead to good amount of sales (one can't really get data did the purchase come because of it or not).

But free door gunner position (as well free front seat in trainers) would be option to get people to the game and get interested about it. Once they have DCS installed, they have some experience in it etc, they have more temptations to buy something - if not on full price, then on sale.

 

17 hours ago, Concentric Arc said:

On a side note one of the first things I did when seeing the choppers. Was drop into a multiplayer server thinking I could jump into a gunner seat and check out the fun and the Huey. I was disappointed. I still haven't bought the Huey yet. And I probably won't. if I am still around for the Apache release, I might pick that up, or maybe a sale or maybe never...If i can't talk my buddies into playing well that's a different story. I have been gaming with some of these people for 10 years or more.

 

Think about the fun one could have by getting more human door gunners for the missions?

fact is that it is far more fun to fly helicopter with someone, that they can be the co-pilot or door gunner. But if just the door gunner would be free (not the co-pilot seat naturally) then it would still be fun, and when you have great controllable set of miniguns forward for co-pilot, many would like idea to get change to operate that too.

 

 

[Concentric Arc]

56 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

It leads to situation that no one should ever recommend anyone to pay full price but just sit couple months and save money. As those who have challenge to put 80 for a module, they happily wait two months, save some more and then buy two for price of one. It is lost deal for two studios as they got just half the price.

 

 

 

Welcome the real world. Why would you pay full price on anything? When you can get it on sale. Do you pay full price for everything you buy, just because? How about all your sim equipment did you not shop sales and try and get it for the cheapest price? I work hard for my peso's. I don't give it away, just because. See where I can go with this. But again this really isn't about module prices with me. I've already alluded to that in my other posts. I think there is some saying about " beating a dead horse"

 

The big thing here is. I WANT TO SEE THE GAME FLOURISH. I want the devs to be rolling in piles of money. So they can make us more modules. Multiplayer in 2021 should not be a niche mode in your game. Theres is literally 100's of millions of potential customers out there. Why would you want to settle for 10K ,20K or however many? No game company strives for mediocrity. Not saying that is the case here.I love their modules.

 

I have honestly, I don't know how many hours, just flying around and practicing take offs and landings. I haven't even tried combat yet.Hell I just figured out how to get aircraft skins into my saved game folder I LOVE THE GAME! Having said that just flying by yourself well, it's always better learning with friends.

 

 

1 hour ago, Fri13 said:

And if you demand a lot but you constantly offer your services/products at -50% or -30% prices, then that means people will learn that you are asking too much as they can get it for lower price, and that becomes as new base value they are ready to pay by various reasons, like others recommend to wait for next sale etc.

 

Maybe there is something to that? Not my place to say, nor does it concern me.

 

 Anyways I will go back to crashing now. And remember "The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire." 

 

Cheers, stay inverted.

[Fri13]

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

Welcome the real world.

 

Why to be so hostile with a such unrespectful comment?

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

Why would you pay full price on anything? When you can get it on sale.

 

Yes, if you do not understand that, you have much to learn about respect.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

Do you pay full price for everything you buy, just because?

 

Usually, yes.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

 How about all your sim equipment did you not shop sales and try and get it for the cheapest price?

 

Nope.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

I work hard for my peso's. I don't give it away, just because.

 

My time is more valuable than the money, I save more by not wasting time.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

See where I can go with this.

 

Yes, on the bad situation. Money doesn't come to you, you need to go where the money is.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

But again this really isn't about module prices with me. I've already alluded to that in my other posts. I think there is some saying about " beating a dead horse"

 

Exactly.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

The big thing here is. I WANT TO SEE THE GAME FLOURISH. I want the devs to be rolling in piles of money. So they can make us more modules.

 

And for that they need more income, less sales, less cheap people. The main business on many is military contracts, not consumer products.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

Multiplayer in 2021 should not be a niche mode in your game.

 

Multiplayer will always be a niche group, the main business is single player.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

Theres is literally 100's of millions of potential customers out there. Why would you want to settle for 10K ,20K or however many? No game company strives for mediocrity. Not saying that is the case here.I love their modules.

 

They do not try to settle for "10-20k", they aim for the best military combat simulator and that will cut a lot of people out of its scope because the game is too challenging.

That is as well why they are making the Modern Air Combat product, to develop something directly for the generic genre audience.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

I have honestly, I don't know how many hours, just flying around and practicing take offs and landings.

 

And not everyone like that. Many doesn't even like to learn start-up or shutdown procedures either, they want to get flying.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

I haven't even tried combat yet.Hell I just figured out how to get aircraft skins into my saved game folder I LOVE THE GAME! Having said that just flying by yourself well, it's always better learning with friends.

 

Not always.

 

1 hour ago, Concentric Arc said:

 Anyways I will go back to crashing now. And remember "The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire."

 

There are many other times when it is bad to have too much fuel.... You learn it as well when you get to combat...

 

[Concentric Arc]

2 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

There are many other times when it is bad to have too much fuel.... You learn it as well when you get to combat...

Wow really? It was a joke, lol..

 

I think your the first person I ever heard of that doesn't like a good deal and likes paying full price for everything If you want to go through life paying full price for house's, car's. games flight gear etc.etc. Well that's your business...Just like my life is my business.

 

7 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

Why to be so hostile with a such unrespectful comment?

 

7 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

Yes, if you do not understand that, you have much to learn about respect.

 

Hmm. maybe all you folks coming in and dog piling on me. Did you not see all the other responses in the thread. Why did you not comment on their posts? Hell I didn't even start the thread...

 

You don't know me, you don't know what I have done in life, what I have been through in life. Who the  are you to judge, me? You wanna talk respect learn it yourself.

 

Anyways I am moving on, like you, I value my time. I am done here...

 

[Dangerzone]

4 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

IMHO there are too many sales, and sales can have way too high price cuts for it. I think that -50% is just too much. When you have 4-6 times a year sales, it means that people will stop buying or at least avoid bying at any other time than when sales are.

 

You make some good valid points here as it's a perspective I haven't considered much. However there is another aspect when it comes to these sales as well - or maybe it's just my mind thinking differently:

 

If there is a module I want, and I may have to wait 4-6 months for a sale where I may get $40 off at the absolute most if I'm really fortunate - I tend to ask myself "is it worth saving ~$0.20 to ~$0.30 per day to get that potential savings (where I don't really know what the discount may be - it may only be $10) and miss out on enjoying that module over the next 4-6 months, or is it worth that extra amount to have the enjoyment now - over the next 4 to 6 months.   (Yeah - OK, maybe I spend a bit too much time on DCS). 

 

The value in having the product and enjoying it earlier outweighs the savings, so I will likely buy at full price if it's a module I'm keen on buying and will get regardless. For someone else who can't afford the module at full price - the price of waiting for the next sale gives them an opportunity to own a module they wouldn't normally be able to purchase otherwise.

 

And there's another factor: I have a couple of modules I would have never purchased except they were on sale because the value to me as an individual didn't warrant the full price vs other opportunities or modules that I have available. (Yeah - the latest sale I was not going to buy anything, and got conned in because 'it was a sale' and bought something else I didn't really need - and haven't flown much since).   So that's income to ED that they have that they otherwise wouldn't have. I wonder how many others have a module (or 5 - don't tell my wife ) that they've purchased that they otherwise would never have - simply because it was a 'good special offer' at the time? 

 

Thus not everyone holds out for the sales (I certainly don't on modules I'm definitely getting regardless). The AH-64 will likely be purchased day one, and the Kiowa also - even if there's a chance for a 30% discount in the future because I want to enjoy it as much as I can. Time to me is a higher factor than cost. For others I can appreciate it's the other way around. 

 

So, I get where you're coming from... - there's definitely some loss of income because of the sales... but there is also some additional income that wouldn't have been received otherwise. And then there's those that take it up at discounted rates that then get hooked, buy more, tell their friends, etc. Is a growing community more beneficial. 

 

So the question really is - is the loss in people 'holding out' for a sale that would have purchased if there were no sales outweighed/balanced/or benefitted by the income of those who would never have purchased at full price?  That's something only DCS really have the figures to know, and even then - it's best guess because they don't really know whether someone would have paid full price later or not.  From my personal priorities - I see the sales as a boost for the community. It's more players, more customers and provided ED aren't hurting themselves with it (which I doubt they'd be doing if they were) I'd like to see it continue - for the sake of a growing community. 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Fri13 said:

Think about the fun one could have by getting more human door gunners for the missions?

fact is that it is far more fun to fly helicopter with someone, that they can be the co-pilot or door gunner. But if just the door gunner would be free (not the co-pilot seat naturally) then it would still be fun, and when you have great controllable set of miniguns forward for co-pilot, many would like idea to get change to operate that too.

 

 

 

That's a great point I haven't considered either: Would more people be enticed to buy the Huey if they knew their mates could gun for them who otherwise wouldn't. Because there is a new factor/enjoyment to be had with multi-crew that otherwise hasn't existed previously. 

 

Multicrew has the same potential to expand the game as what combined arms has to expand the game into something more than it has been previously. However I know that my logic doesn't fit with the majority of the community in at least one area: I don't understand for the life of me why single player is so much more popular than multi player. To be flying with friends on a common goal is what keeps me coming back most evenings - and it's what got me in, in the first place. If it was just single player - I'd probably be on far less than I am, as for me DCS is a social interaction more than a game. So I know in at least some ways - I must be in more of the minority than the majority with my perspectives.

[Lurker]

There is so much misunderstanding regarding how much development time and effort goes into every single aspect of DCS World. We have waited 7 years for Eagle Dynamics to implement multi-crew in the Huey. Do you really think that making door-gunners a free option is as simple as opening up the source code and changing one line of code? If it were, then it would be a valid option and something that Eagle Dynamics could seriously consider doing, but as anyone who has even an inkling of coding skills will tell you it is most probably anything but that. 

 

Eagle Dynamics should just make the Huey completely free. We already have one fixed wing jet, and a WW2 warbird free module. A free introductory chopper module is long overdue, and makes more sense from a business perspective anyway. Maybe limit it so that the only armament the free version can carry are the door-guns. Then people would be able to try Helicopters (something that is very different from flying fixed wing) and have fun as crew and gunners too. Best of all it would not involve any difficult coding or DRM issues. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Lurker

[hannibal]

be grateful for what we have, and the fact we have updates to this module at all is a god sent.

what ever ED decides is what will be, they have tons they have to do.

as BigNewy mentioned, this argument has been noted on boths sides of yay and nay.

enjoy what we have now..

and what will come in the future

 

[admiki]

21 hours ago, Lurker said:

There is so much misunderstanding regarding how much development time and effort goes into every single aspect of DCS World. We have waited 7 years for Eagle Dynamics to implement multi-crew in the Huey. Do you really think that making door-gunners a free option is as simple as opening up the source code and changing one line of code? If it were, then it would be a valid option and something that Eagle Dynamics could seriously consider doing, but as anyone who has even an inkling of coding skills will tell you it is most probably anything but that. 

 

Eagle Dynamics should just make the Huey completely free. We already have one fixed wing jet, and a WW2 warbird free module. A free introductory chopper module is long overdue, and makes more sense from a business perspective anyway. Maybe limit it so that the only armament the free version can carry are the door-guns. Then people would be able to try Helicopters (something that is very different from flying fixed wing) and have fun as crew and gunners too. Best of all it would not involve any difficult coding or DRM issues. 

 

I agree on first part of your post.

Second part? Not so much. What you are asking for is for ED to shaft people that have purchased module.

I am member of a RW only squadron. Part I enjoy the most is slingloading or fast LL CSAR. I don't have use for flex guns or rockets in those scenarios. So, that free module limitation wouldn't be limitation for me at all. 

One solution is for ED to refund and I don't think that will happen.

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, admiki said:

I agree on first part of your post.

Second part? Not so much. What you are asking for is for ED to shaft people that have purchased module.

I am member of a RW only squadron. Part I enjoy the most is slingloading or fast LL CSAR. I don't have use for flex guns or rockets in those scenarios. So, that free module limitation wouldn't be limitation for me at all. 

One solution is for ED to refund and I don't think that will happen.

 

Plenty of games that were P2P (Pay to Play) have gone F2P over the years. It's basically a common industry practice these days. I paid full price for the Huey, but I would have absolutely no problems with them making the Huey a F2P module (maybe with some restrictions) Still that might be a step too far for Eagle Dynamics, as they might not want to risk alienating their user base, which is quite small compared to most games out there. 

[Fri13]

On 1/18/2021 at 12:53 PM, Lurker said:

There is so much misunderstanding regarding how much development time and effort goes into every single aspect of DCS World. We have waited 7 years for Eagle Dynamics to implement multi-crew in the Huey. Do you really think that making door-gunners a free option is as simple as opening up the source code and changing one line of code?

 

Do you think that it took 7 years from them to add a multicrew because it is so challenging? Yet they can make a new module like A-10 C in 4-5 years with all research, contract negotiations etc....

 

Seriously, programming is not so difficult. And that is the core problem that there are a lot of bad programmers that makes bad code.

But there are as well a lot of great programmers who just happen to have a bad day or they are tired or they just want to get their idea out, that is causing lots of bad code.

 

One can plan and design great things, but then suddenly in the future all that just fails for the design reasons.

 

The coop was likely possible far sooner, but it really put limitations as there are such awful things like DirectX and it input system.

 

Even today the most likelihood why we didn't get coop sooner is that ED couldn't overcome their dependants to DirectX and its axis use.

 

Plug in two joystick and bind both to be a Huey cyclic. You have now exactly the same problem as in multiplayer but just without networking challenges.

 

What should happen when one stick is moved forward and other backward? Which one is the priority?

 

The challenge is not that one can flip buttons around or press keyboard etc. But what to do with constant input like throttle bases often have a 2-way switches that send constantly output.

So what happens when switch A is set OFF and Switch B is set to ON, in same function? Bot are sending their status continually and that is problem.

 

To overcome such low level designs in the game is huge challenge, and when you have everything else built upon that, that is expecting it work same way always, one can't just change it without braking everything that is using it. Basically everything.

 

 

On 1/18/2021 at 12:53 PM, Lurker said:

If it were, then it would be a valid option and something that Eagle Dynamics could seriously consider doing, but as anyone who has even an inkling of coding skills will tell you it is most probably anything but that. 

 

It likely is easy thing to do, but there are schedules and there are priorities and new plans and ideas etc. Like if you are going to build a new house in place where you now have old, it is waste of time to start doing a new roof when you are going to demolish the old house anyways soon.

 

On 1/18/2021 at 12:53 PM, Lurker said:

Eagle Dynamics should just make the Huey completely free. We already have one fixed wing jet, and a WW2 warbird free module. A free introductory chopper module is long overdue, and makes more sense from a business perspective anyway.

I disagree with it being the Huey.

 

IMHO ED should do a R-22 or R-44 as free.

And even that I am disagreeing with myself as there is HUGE market to provide high quality Robinson simulator for civilian market.

So a free MH-6 as there is a mod for it, would be amazing thing. Tiny, agile helicopter. A gun, rockets and that is it.

 

But that is already a free mod, just so that other modders could use it to make their own custom helicopter mods as one has made the flight modeling for them as basic form!

 

On 1/18/2021 at 12:53 PM, Lurker said:

Maybe limit it so that the only armament the free version can carry are the door-guns. Then people would be able to try Helicopters (something that is very different from flying fixed wing) and have fun as crew and gunners too. Best of all it would not involve any difficult coding or DRM issues. 

 

Well, removing miniguns and rockets does sound nice idea. Have a civilian and door gunners version could be answer for that.

But again, it doesn't solve problem that how to get more door gunners for UH-1H pilots....

 

Now you just have more flyers, less door gunners. And so on less coop.

[Lucidus]

I think it would be good if door gunners could play without buying module. Maybe that way there would be more human gunners.  I am not sure if that would help. Huey is not expensive if you buy it -50% and it is so much more fun to fly. I think it is best module of DCS, it should not be free. Even without guns it is very good. But maybe without armament and no clickable cockpit?

Edited January 19, 2021 by Lucidus

[Funkysak]

Everyone says, "ED should do this, ED should do that." But the module was made by Belsimtek and not ED! ED may not have a say in the matter. 

[hannibal]

DCS is having their great sales again.

 

Dont be cheap! support ED!

 

UH1H module for 25$

 

get huey for your buddy as a gift!

[Tom_]

I see people have been talking a lot about this. I feel like most things have been said about this topic. ED does not seem to think making the gunners free is a good idea so it will stay the way it is. This is fine. I didnt mean to sound spoiled. I thought il2 BoX did their gunner stations in a superb way and that ED could take some parts of that and implement it themselves. In the end its ED's decision and thats fine.

 

 

 

Also

On 2/7/2021 at 7:08 PM, Funkysak said:

Everyone says, "ED should do this, ED should do that." But the module was made by Belsimtek and not ED! ED may not have a say in the matter. 

ED is Belsimtek. it is the same company now.

[BIGNEWY]

Tom has requested we close this thread now,

 

Thank you all for the feedback.