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Please help - because of spinal cord damage I can't keep my head still which renders the mouse impossible to use in VR


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12 minutes ago, VirusAM said:

 


I briefly tried yesterday as reported above, and i was able to use the mouse independently from the head movement.
My brief experience is that if you keep moving the cursor you can operate the switches
But I am able to have the head relatively still while operating switches.
Of course if you swivel the head around things could change.

Anyway if things are as bad as everyone here describes how pointctrl (which as stated need this option to work) is able to work correctly?We should have the same issue there.

Mine is just a curiosity i have no interest in arguing and controversy.
If the people who make use of this option is not able to operate the mouse then fine...something has to be done to solve the issue.
I don’t experience this issue probably because my use case is just different, and I just briefly tried it in order to answer here.

 

 

 

I wasn't trying to argue.  I thought maybe you knew something rest of us didn't.

I don't have pointctrl but from the videos, that doesn't look like it'll work for OP either.  Most of the videos show them keeping their head relatively steady while pointing.

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The only solution for OP's problem is to decouple mouse totally from the VR viewport. Solution what VirusAM tries to explain doesn't work if you cannot keep your head still enough to hit buttons.

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2 hours ago, VirusAM said:

 


I briefly tried yesterday as reported above, and i was able to use the mouse independently from the head movement.
My brief experience is that if you keep moving the mouse (I have a trackball near my right leg just for DCS Vr) you can operate the switches.
But I am able to have the head relatively still while operating switches.
Of course if you swivel the head around things could change.

Anyway if things are as bad as everyone here describes how pointctrl (which as stated need this option to work) is able to work correctly?We should have the same issue there.

Mine is just a curiosity i have no interest in arguing and controversy.
If the people who make use of this option is not able to operate the mouse then fine...something has to be done to solve the issue.
I don’t experience this issue probably because my use case is just different, and I just briefly tried it in order to answer here.




Yes exactly if I keep moving the mouse I can operate the switches in the cockpit really easily (also with the head not being perfectly still - noone can have the head perfectly still).
Of course if I don’t touch my trackball and move the head the cursor moves.

 

You seem to be missing the point here.   It's not that the cursor won't move with the mouse, the issue is that it is not independent of head movement.  You have to keep your head very still to be able to operate dials etc. with the mouse.  Now in real life we operate keys etc. with our hands yet are still able to look away and check what's going on by looking around with our eyes.  We can't do that in DCS, but it would be very easy to do, i.e. make the mouse cursor totally independent of head movement like it is in TrackIR.

As someone else has said, this has been requested many times for a long time now, and there has been no sign of ED implementing this.

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Now that we've got this cleared up I think sadly in this instance, it would be good to stop talking about what we wish to see (as we're unlikely to see any changes in DCS with this) - and look for what options are available at the moment. 

 

One potential (but ugly) possible workaround for the OP (as opposed to using hand controllers) may be to move forward with the head significantly so that the head (and thus the 'view') is much closer to the switches to be selected.

 

Of course the head is still shaking the same amount, but due to trigonometry, the reduced distance between two objects, the less affect the degree of rotation has. This would reduce the impact of head movement the closer the head gets to the relevant switches. However with a spinal injury I don't know how practical that is (if the OP is able to move forward like this without harm)- but this is a workaround that I have been doing. Instead of sitting back in my seat where the mouse moves all over the place in reflection to the controls I wish to hit - I move forward to reduce the effects of 'head shake'.

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On 1/7/2021 at 11:47 AM, imacken said:

You seem to be missing the point here.   It's not that the cursor won't move with the mouse, the issue is that it is not independent of head movement.  You have to keep your head very still to be able to operate dials etc. with the mouse.  Now in real life we operate keys etc. with our hands yet are still able to look away and check what's going on by looking around with our eyes.  We can't do that in DCS, but it would be very easy to do, i.e. make the mouse cursor totally independent of head movement like it is in TrackIR.

As someone else has said, this has been requested many times for a long time now, and there has been no sign of ED implementing this.

 

Yeah I understand....Honestly I was sure that "use mouse" was meant for this....but trying it I saw that while the mouse movement is possible independently from the head position the cursor still moves with the head....As stated I use the other option and I will until PointCtrl2 ships....

Now for the OP issue, I am emphatic with him, also if what I experienced trying the option is that keeping the trackball in motion could be enough to easily operate the switches.

 


Edited by VirusAM

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Do you think there is a technical reason why the mouse cursor can't be independent of head movement in VR? 

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Just now, imacken said:

Do you think there is a technical reason why the mouse cursor can't be independent of head movement in VR? 

 

Honestly I don't think so...

I think the way it is implemented is just a feature to not lose the focus of where the cursor is....I think so because the cursor is moved with an offset that is function of where the user moved it..While without the "use mouse" option it is always centered.

Vincent "Virus" DThe

PC: R9 5900x/RTX2080Ti, 64GB RAM.

Joystick bases: Virpil T-50CM2 with 20cm extension (Center)

Joystick grips: Realsimulator F18

Throttles: Winwing Super Taurus

Hardware: Saitek Combat Rudder, 4x Thrustmaster Cougar MFD, Logitech G13, Winwing Panels

VR: Valve Index 

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Could there not be a cursor-centering bind so the cursor could be located if lost?

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Just now, imacken said:

Could there not be a cursor-centering bind so the cursor could be located if lost?

 

I think that for this option (use mouse) could be enough to have a totally decoupled mouse cursor...Who (like me) is ok with the head movement can simply untick that option...

Vincent "Virus" DThe

PC: R9 5900x/RTX2080Ti, 64GB RAM.

Joystick bases: Virpil T-50CM2 with 20cm extension (Center)

Joystick grips: Realsimulator F18

Throttles: Winwing Super Taurus

Hardware: Saitek Combat Rudder, 4x Thrustmaster Cougar MFD, Logitech G13, Winwing Panels

VR: Valve Index 

Monitor: Samsung Odyssey G5, TrackIr v5

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No one loses the cursor in the menus and no one loses them on your 4K desktop.  I don't lose it in MSFS.

The technical challenge is that they can't keep both... or it is difficult.  And there are still people who don't want to use mouse at all and just use the head to point.

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I think VirusAM answered that one.  Check 'use mouse' if you want to use an independent mouse cursor, and don't check it if you want to move it with your head.

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4 minutes ago, imacken said:

I think VirusAM answered that one.  Check 'use mouse' if you want to use an independent mouse cursor, and don't check it if you want to move it with your head.

 

What I meant was making that an option is difficult.  Right now, with both options, the cursor is attached to the head.  Having one option that detaches, and one reattaches is difficult.  It's easy to choose one or the other.  Not both.

Ask Asobo to implement cursor attached to the head in MSFS 2020, and they'll have same difficulty.


Edited by Taz1004
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I think to sum up the post the request is for a feature that clamps the mouse pointer to cockpit switches. Apparently this is like the civilian sim. It's not a feature in this sim. Some requirement to be able to move the head in conjunction with a mousepointer is normally required for DCS VR. The mitigations for lack of the feature are:
1) Using the key binding.
2) Binding the more common keys to HOTAS peripherals
3) Using zoom to minimise the movement caused by the head.

If Im honest, my head isnt the most accurate pointing device, my mousing hand more than makes up for this though and it comes fairly instinctively. Anything you need in a hurry is best bound to HOTAS.

The feature request is definitely something I can get behind though, its not just helping people with poor necks  we all have to contend with lots of motion and the feature would help.

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There are some features of DCS I can't use because of this.  Datalink on Ka-50 for example.  To cycle between datalink targets, I have to press the button at upper left of the cockpit.  But to see what I'm cycling between, I have to look at ABRIS at lower right.  So I'm looking up, click, look down to check, look up, click, look down to check...

If mouse was detached, I'd keep the mouse on the button, just look at ABRIS and left click on the mouse.

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9 minutes ago, Taz1004 said:

There are some features of DCS I can't use because of this.  Datalink on Ka-50 for example.  To cycle between datalink targets, I have to press the button at upper left of the cockpit.  But to see what I'm cycling between, I have to look at ABRIS at lower right.  So I'm looking up, click, look down to check, look up, click, look down to check...

If mouse was detached, I'd keep the mouse on the button, just look at ABRIS and left click on the mouse.

Exactly.  There needs to be an option to detach the cursor from head movement. It really should be as simple as that.

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3 hours ago, imacken said:

 

Exactly.  There needs to be an option to detach the cursor from head movement. It really should be as simple as that.

 

The problem may be that it's easy to say - difficult to implement. As a developer I know I've had customers come to me with what seems like difficult requests that can be implemented with a couple of lines change of code. Conversely I've had them also come to me with what sounds like a simple request from a users point of view that takes significant development or modifications, and the more that is done, the more that is 'unraveled' like pulling on a thread - as changes may need to be done deep to the way things occur.

 

ED have ignored this request for some time. I suspect if it was a couple of lines of code (so to speak) to allow something like this, it'd be done already. It's one of those areas though I wish developers or rep's could be a little more open with. Instead of silence, just say "it's a difficult feature that's unlikely to be implemented without a rewrite", or "it's on our list for consideration". The worst part about this is the silence of simply not knowing - which is why in the end the assumption needs to be made after years of requests and no responses that it will not change.

 

Out of curiosity - does anyone know of a 'lock' option for a HMD? (Something that will allow the HMD to lock it's position regardless of where the head moves temporarily to allow someone to click). I know for some it may cause motion sickness - but for others it may be a life line.  It's still not the best option, because as Taz says - there's other issues with the mouse being bound - but in the OP's instance - this might help?

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/5/2021 at 4:45 PM, Dannyvandelft said:

Stop using the mouse, and use the hand controllers. Real planes don't have a mouse.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

 

How can I use hand controllers when I'm using HOTAS?

On 1/6/2021 at 7:25 AM, VirusAM said:

The option I mentioned above has been there for a while...
Ticking use mouse in the VR tab is the solution.
When using track ir the mouse doesn’t move with the head by default....
So I don’t understand why you say there is a problem.

 

I've already tried all the combinations of options, and this doesn't work.  When you use a mouse, yes the mouse is primary, but as soon as you move your head too much, it moves the cursor independent of the mouse again as it "refocuses".  The mouse takes over again as soon as you move it, but it's a constant battle between the two.

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On 1/7/2021 at 6:43 PM, Dangerzone said:

Now that we've got this cleared up I think sadly in this instance, it would be good to stop talking about what we wish to see (as we're unlikely to see any changes in DCS with this) - and look for what options are available at the moment. 

 

One potential (but ugly) possible workaround for the OP (as opposed to using hand controllers) may be to move forward with the head significantly so that the head (and thus the 'view') is much closer to the switches to be selected.

 

Of course the head is still shaking the same amount, but due to trigonometry, the reduced distance between two objects, the less affect the degree of rotation has. This would reduce the impact of head movement the closer the head gets to the relevant switches. However with a spinal injury I don't know how practical that is (if the OP is able to move forward like this without harm)- but this is a workaround that I have been doing. Instead of sitting back in my seat where the mouse moves all over the place in reflection to the controls I wish to hit - I move forward to reduce the effects of 'head shake'.

 

It's hard for me to constantly move in and out to zoom into an MFD, so I bound a zoom key to my HOTAS and have started using that.  It's a little better, but still clunky.  I can't do this stuff in real-time yet as I'm trying to learn how to program all my missiles and such.

 

@VirusAM I can't find any information on pointcontrol v2.  Is that coming out soon?

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