Please help - because of spinal cord damage I can't keep my head still which renders the mouse impossible to use in VR

[jpinard]

I just got the HP Reverb 2 and excitedly bought a whole bunch of DCS stuff to play with it.  However I immediately ran into terrible issues because I need to use my mouse to click the cockpit switches, but the HMD cursor is fighting with my mouse cursor.  So when I finally get my mouse over a switch to flip, my head pulls the cursor away and I miss it.  Repeat this a hundred times just to do the simplest task and it's left me defeated and sad.

I've slaved the HMD cursor to right eye, left eye, and both just to see if there was some way I could make it work.  It didn't.

 

Please tell me there's a way to turn off the HMD cursor, so just the mouse is used?   Or at least change the HMD sensitivity so I can move my head around a bunch and the cursor won't move when I'm trying to click stuff with my mouse.  Otherwise I may have wasted hundreds of dollars and that would be devastating to someone in my situation.

 

Thanks.

[Deano87]

HMD cursor? hmm. 

I'm pretty sure that has notthing to do with the HMD implimentation in the aircraft.
 

in VR options sub menu confirm that you have "use mouse" selected and "use hand controllers" deselected.

[jpinard]

It's the VR cursor that follows head tracking.  I do have "use mouse" selected, and I have had "use hand controllers" deselected the entire time.

I'm starting to get really worried I made a huge, expensive mistake.  I just came across this:

 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by jpinard

[Taz1004]

You made a huge, expensive mistake.  There's no way to separate it currently.

I don't know what the extend of your injury is but you might want to look into Point Ctrl.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Taz1004

[Dannyvandelft]

Stop using the mouse, and use the hand controllers. Real planes don't have a mouse.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Tom Kazansky]

Did you select that setting in DCS where the mouse cursor is not directly linked to your head movement so you can move the mouse around inside your general direction of the area you are looking at? I'm not at my PC so I can't tell the exact name. Will check tomorrow if needed.

 

The default setting was a cursor that was directly connected to the center of the screen. It was unusable for me.

[Mars Exulte]

I think you've got something weird enabled, I never had any problem actuating controls in VR. TrackIR it was sometimes a hassle because it was jittery, but I never had any issue with VR.

 

I use hand controllers, not a mouse, though.

Edited January 6, 2021 by zhukov032186

[Taz1004]

I took it that he has condition so his head is constantly shaking due to his injury.  And he can't keep his head steady at switches.

[Dangerzone]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this has been a feature request for years with DCS and ED seem uninterested in listening.

 

ie: Mouse pointer and head movement in VR - DCS Wishlist - ED Forums (eagle.ru)

 

I empathies with your issue but would suggest don't hope for things to change - but instead consider work arounds such as the hand controllers or point control, etc.

[Taz1004]

1 hour ago, Dangerzone said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this has been a feature request for years with DCS and ED seem uninterested in listening.

 

ie: Mouse pointer and head movement in VR - DCS Wishlist - ED Forums (eagle.ru)

 

I empathies with your issue but would suggest don't hope for things to change - but instead consider work arounds such as the hand controllers or point control, etc.

 

I'm wondering, does this work with TrackIR?  Does mouse pointer stay on switches when you move your head?

[VirusAM]

I just got the HP Reverb 2 and excitedly bought a whole bunch of DCS stuff to play with it.  However I immediately ran into terrible issues because I need to use my mouse to click the cockpit switches, but the HMD cursor is fighting with my mouse cursor.  So when I finally get my mouse over a switch to flip, my head pulls the cursor away and I miss it.  Repeat this a hundred times just to do the simplest task and it's left me defeated and sad.
I've slaved the HMD cursor to right eye, left eye, and both just to see if there was some way I could make it work.  It didn't.
 
Please tell me there's a way to turn off the HMD cursor, so just the mouse is used?   Or at least change the HMD sensitivity so I can move my head around a bunch and the cursor won't move when I'm trying to click stuff with my mouse.  Otherwise I may have wasted hundreds of dollars and that would be devastating to someone in my situation.
 
Thanks.

Just tick use mouse in the VR options tab.
This way the head movement and the mouse movement will be decoupled

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this has been a feature request for years with DCS and ED seem uninterested in listening.
 
ie: Mouse pointer and head movement in VR - DCS Wishlist - ED Forums (eagle.ru)
 
I empathies with your issue but would suggest don't hope for things to change - but instead consider work arounds such as the hand controllers or point control, etc.

Mmm why do you say that?
The option I mentioned above has been there for a while...
Ticking use mouse in the VR tab is the solution.
When using track ir the mouse doesn’t move with the head by default....
So I don’t understand why you say there is a problem.

[divinee]

After ticking that option the mouse movement is still coupled with head movement. You can move mouse separately but moving head also moves the cursor.

Edited January 6, 2021 by divinee

[andyn]

21 hours ago, Deano87 said:

HMD cursor? hmm.
I'm pretty sure that has notthing to do with the HMD implimentation in the aircraft.

in VR options sub menu confirm that you have "use mouse" selected and "use hand controllers" deselected.

OP is referring to the VR headset with HMD - not JHMCS.

 

19 hours ago, Dannyvandelft said:

Stop using the mouse, and use the hand controllers. Real planes don't have a mouse.

Stop using the hand controllers, because real planes don't have those either. Alternatively, stop trolling when people are trying to have real discussion.

 

4 hours ago, VirusAM said:

Just tick use mouse in the VR options tab.
This way the head movement and the mouse movement will be decoupled

Mmm why do you say that?
The option I mentioned above has been there for a while...
Ticking use mouse in the VR tab is the solution.
When using track ir the mouse doesn’t move with the head by default....
So I don’t understand why you say there is a problem.

 

 

Do you use VR yourself or are you relaying third party information? If this indeed has been fixed, can you pressure the dev team to release the feature already, because for us mortals it is still a huge issue?

 

There are two kinds of cursors in the game: the white dot mouse cursor, and the green and blue VR cross. The white dot is used in the menus and whenever the radio menu is up. The white dot cursor behaves like you described above and it's how people want all the cursors to behave: it should be bound to the cockpit grid, not the viewport.

 

The *other* mouse cursor, the green and blue cross that is used to click switches in the cockpit is what people are complaining about. It indeed follows the HMD regardless of what mouse-related options have been selected.

[VirusAM]

Yes...as you can see in my signature I happily use a Valve Index and I am in the VR alternative reality since 2017 (rift cv1). So I think I know what i am talking about.

 I usually use the default head mouse movement, but I tried the “use mouse” option and it does exactly as I described above...with it ticked you can move your mouse cursor (the one for operating the switches and buttons in the cockpit) with your mouse....independently if you are using the radio menu or operating switches in the cockpit.

Also if you use the awesome pointctrl you have to do exactly the same thing, as for your PC and for DCS that device is just a mouse ... @milesd and all the pointctrl users will be able to confirm that (i used it and I am waiting to the v2 for buying it myself).

Could you try?

if you won’t be able to operate the switches independently from the head movement let me know...I will do a video of that functionality for you and for the OP.

 

8 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

 

I'm wondering, does this work with TrackIR?  Does mouse pointer stay on switches when you move your head?

 Yes it does by default 

Edited January 6, 2021 by VirusAM

[divinee]

VirusAM Please try this: Put your cockpit mouse cursor on top of the button you want to press and slightly move your head. The cursor also moves if you dont move the mouse to compensate your heads movement.

Edited January 6, 2021 by divinee

[Lange_666]

10 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

 

I'm wondering, does this work with TrackIR?  Does mouse pointer stay on switches when you move your head?

No, it doesn't. If there is one thing that i hate is that the mouse pointer is jumpy. To flip a switch it's OK, to turn a dial...no.

But once you click on the dials, you can keep the mouse button pressed and just move the mouse, the dial will keep turning as long as you don't release the button.

[Tom Kazansky]

4 hours ago, divinee said:

After ticking that option the mouse movement is still coupled with head movement. You can move mouse separately but moving head also moves the cursor.

 

This.

I realized today that even this option will not solve OP's issue. There should be an option where the mouse cursor is independent from head movement but with a key that puts it back to the center of view in case you "lost" it.

[Dangerzone]

9 hours ago, VirusAM said:

 

Just tick use mouse in the VR options tab.
This way the head movement and the mouse movement will be decoupled

Mmm why do you say that?
The option I mentioned above has been there for a while...
Ticking use mouse in the VR tab is the solution.
When using track ir the mouse doesn’t move with the head by default....
So I don’t understand why you say there is a problem.

 

 

Thanks for your reply VirusAM...

 

I don't think you fully grasp the issue at hand (and please forgive me if I'm wrong and the feature you suggest can work in this manner), but none of us have been able to get it working without still being affected by the HMD as well.

 

The problem is not that the OP (or the rest of us) can't use the mouse to point. The problem is that when we do use the mouse to point - the mouse will still 'move away' from the switch it's hovering over if we move our heads in VR.

 

In the OP's case this is made worse with their spinal cord injury where holding the head still is not possible, therefore with each head movement/shake - the cursor keeps moving away from where it's been placed with the mouse.

 

Can you please actually try the following and tell us what happens:

 

1) Open DCS up in VR and enter a plane,

 

2) Use the mouse to place the + cursor over a switch as though you're going to select that switch.

 

3) Now continually shake your head slightly from side to side to replicate the OP's issue and try and flick the switches in the cockpit. Did the mouse cursor stay where you left it? Or is it now moving left and right of that switch making it more difficult to click the buttons?

 

What we find is that it moves, so our head must be perfectly still in order to flick a switch in the cockpit - any involuntary movement of the head will cause the cursor to move away from that switch. 

 

The reason I said what I said is simply by observing numerous topics asking the same thing for numerous years and having zero response on the subject - it would be reasonable to assume at this point that this is very low on the interest list with the developers. As such I think it's in the OP's best interest to find a work around instead of hoping for this to be changed. This comes after seeing years of repeated requests with no responses from ED.  It's not an attack on ED as such - it's simply a pragmatic observation that there is no interest in listening to requests on this particular issue and a recommendation likewise. (ED have been great with some other requests, but I understand that not all requests can be actioned, if they took development away from the clouds, or Vulcan development, etc to work on this, others would be disappointed, etc...). So, it's better for the OP to have a reasonable expectation of what and what not to expect on this issue than to give a false indication of hope where there has been no signs in the past.

 

Please let us know your results. Maybe there is a clearer way for us to explain the issue that we're missing, or maybe we're completely missing something that has always existed?

Edited January 6, 2021 by Dangerzone

[Taz1004]

5 hours ago, VirusAM said:

 Yes it does by default 

 

3 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

No, it doesn't. If there is one thing that i hate is that the mouse pointer is jumpy. To flip a switch it's OK, to turn a dial...no.

But once you click on the dials, you can keep the mouse button pressed and just move the mouse, the dial will keep turning as long as you don't release the button.

 

Does VirusAM have different version of DCS?  In any cockpit of DCS, put your mouse pointer on a button, shake your head like a bobblehead, can you keep the pointer on the button?  With our without "Use Mouse" option?  Without Point Ctrl?  If you can, I am interested in seeing a video of you doing that.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Taz1004

[VirusAM]

 
Does VirusAM have different version of DCS?  In any cockpit of DCS, put your mouse pointer on a button, shake your head like a bobblehead, can you keep the pointer on the button?  With our without "Use Mouse" option?  Without Point Ctrl?  If you can, I am interested in seeing a video of you doing that.

Using “use mouse” If you move your head without touching the mouse the cursor will move with your head (but if you previously moved it, the cursor won’t be at the center of the visual, it will have an offset from the centre).

But if you move the mouse while also moving the head the mouse cursor will follow the mouse movement.
I just tried this tonight to answer here..
Also without this option PointCtrl couldn’t work because as already said above, pointctrl it is just a mouse for your PC and for DCS.

Anyway usually don’t have “use mouse” ticked, as I prefer to move the cursor with my head.
When i will manage to order pointctrl v2 i will surely use it.

I don’t have any different version of this option from anyone else.

[Taz1004]

1 minute ago, VirusAM said:

But if you move the mouse while also moving the head the mouse cursor will follow the mouse movement.
I just tried this tonight to answering here..

 

Mouse cursor will follow the mouse movement... yes.  But the mouse cursor will still move with your head at the same time?

In this thread, we're talking about the OP's condition.  To put it simply, can you or can you not enter a correct coordinate on CDU of A10C while shaking your head?

[Taz1004]

8 minutes ago, VirusAM said:

 

Using “use mouse” If you move your head without touching the mouse the cursor will move with your head (but if you previously moved it, the cursor won’t be at the center of the visual, it will have an offset from the centre).

But if you move the mouse while also moving the head the mouse cursor will follow the mouse movement.
I just tried this tonight to answer here..
Also without this option PointCtrl couldn’t work because as already said above, pointctrl it is just a mouse for your PC and for DCS.

Anyway usually don’t have “use mouse” ticked, as I prefer to move the cursor with my head.
When i will manage to order pointctrl v2 i will surely use it.

I don’t have any different version of this option from anyone else.

 

 

 

Below video is what everyone and OP is asking for.  Can YOU do this in DCS?

 

 

That is also how it works in MSFS 2020 and virtually all other VR games.  If you are able to do this in DCS, then all of us have been missing out.

[divinee]

8 hours ago, VirusAM said:

 

Using “use mouse” If you move your head without touching the mouse the cursor will move with your head (but if you previously moved it, the cursor won’t be at the center of the visual, it will have an offset from the centre).

But if you move the mouse while also moving the head the mouse cursor will follow the mouse movement.
I just tried this tonight to answer here..
Also without this option PointCtrl couldn’t work because as already said above, pointctrl it is just a mouse for your PC and for DCS.

Anyway usually don’t have “use mouse” ticked, as I prefer to move the cursor with my head.
When i will manage to order pointctrl v2 i will surely use it.

I don’t have any different version of this option from anyone else.

 

This is what everyone has been trying to explain.. Moving head also moves mouse cursor in all cases -> mouse cursor is coupled with vr viewport and if you shake your head it is impossible to hit any buttons and that's what OP tried to explain. The mouse should be totally independent like shown in the YT video posted by Taz1004.

 

This have been on the wishlist for few years now and quite a lot of people have been asking for this. Maybe @NineLine or @BIGNEWY have some info about the situation?

Edited January 7, 2021 by divinee

[andyn]

8 hours ago, VirusAM said:

But if you move the mouse while also moving the head the mouse cursor will follow the mouse movement.

I just tried this tonight to answer here..
Also without this option PointCtrl couldn’t work because as already said above, pointctrl it is just a mouse for your PC and for DCS.

Anyway usually don’t have “use mouse” ticked, as I prefer to move the cursor with my head.
When i will manage to order pointctrl v2 i will surely use it.

 

PointCtrl is somewhat of a kludge that would be best implemented as SteamVR native controllers, not as an emulated mouse. If ED is afraid of breaking commercial customers' (namely the ANG A-10C procedure trainer) workflow, the feature that people are requesting here can always be implemented as an option.

 

With TrackIR this was never an issue, because its movement is heavily filtered. With the instant and accurate response that VR requires, this is not an option on the VR compositor level. Even with us healthy people, the human head is micro-stuttering all the time but the brain filters out the movement and stabilizes the image. This does not filter out the in-game mouse cursor movement, however. Those stutters are very apparent if you look at VR gameplay capture on Youtube.

[VirusAM]

 
Mouse cursor will follow the mouse movement... yes.  But the mouse cursor will still move with your head at the same time?
In this thread, we're talking about the OP's condition.  To put it simply, can you or can you not enter a correct coordinate on CDU of A10C while shaking your head?

I briefly tried yesterday as reported above, and i was able to use the mouse independently from the head movement.
My brief experience is that if you keep moving the mouse (I have a trackball near my right leg just for DCS Vr) you can operate the switches.
But I am able to have the head relatively still while operating switches.
Of course if you swivel the head around things could change.

Anyway if things are as bad as everyone here describes how pointctrl (which as stated need this option to work) is able to work correctly?We should have the same issue there.

Mine is just a curiosity i have no interest in arguing and controversy.
If the people who make use of this option is not able to operate the mouse then fine...something has to be done to solve the issue.
I don’t experience this issue probably because my use case is just different, and I just briefly tried it in order to answer here.

VirusAM Please try this: Put your cockpit mouse cursor on top of the button you want to press and slightly move your head. The cursor also moves if you dont move the mouse to compensate your heads movement.

Yes exactly if I keep moving the mouse I can operate the switches in the cockpit really easily (also with the head not being perfectly still - noone can have the head perfectly still).
Of course if I don’t touch my trackball and move the head the cursor moves.