reported AI "Attack Group" conditions seemingly ignored - possible user error IDK ?

[Phantom_Mark]

I setup a simple AI bombing run with a single waypoint and then RTB.

At the first waypoint it has the instruction "Attack Group" using a ATGM, ONE in quantity, the aircraft is carrying two.......

The reason I setup this condition is because the AI kept firing two missiles at the same tank, so the first destroyed the tank, and then second followed it in shortly after, even tho it was destroyed. 

I may resort to using "Attack Unit" (but then that means every time the AI engages the group it is scripted which units he targets? ) but I feel this is potentially a valid bug report after backwards engineering the objective and noticing the AI plane still releases two missiles, not the one it is instructed to shoot.

Mission attached, apologies if it is user error.

AI Bomb Test Basic.miz

[Phantom_Mark]

Further interesting observations:

Same mission, but this time the AI are instructed to release 1x BOMB, and limited to 1x Attack......again, maybe i misunderstand the use, but the aircraft now makes 4 passes and drops 4 single bombs in each pass..... instead of 1 bomb and 1x pass.

Behaviour which isn't even consistent with the above scenario.

If this is user error once again I apologise, however I don't seem to follow the logic, this is the behaviour I would expect if I had not selected the max attack quantity ?  Mixed with the problems in the first post I even more confused now tho.

.
 

AI Bomb Test Basic.miz

Edited January 5, 2021 by Phantom_Mark

[toutenglisse]

In advanced waypoint actions, try to delete "CAS" and only keep your specific task. CAS overrides specific tasks in my exp. AI should then respect the settings of specific task.

[Phantom_Mark]

Thanks buddy, will try that now, knowing all the caveats and subtleties is half the battle......Only comment I can add to that tho is does this still make sense given the seeming compliance to drop 1x Bomb per pass vs releasing 2x Missiles tho ? despite being told to release 1 ?

Will try your suggestion and post back, thanks again.

36 minutes ago, toutenglisse said:

In advanced waypoint actions, try to delete "CAS" and only keep your specific task. CAS overrides specific tasks in my exp. AI should then respect the settings of specific task.

One problem, removing the CAS removes the ability to instruct the aircraft to attack a group, or set any of those conditions ?

[Phantom_Mark]

Edit, I have removed the CAS string entry in the advanced waypoint actions - rather than changing the flight Task.

Removing the CAS string entry from the Advanced Waypoint instructions is seeing the AI ignore the instruction to release 1x Bomb, released 2 on the first pass, then made 2 further passes releasing 1x bomb each pass, so still ignoring the conditions set ?

Thanks for the suggestion tho.

AI Bomb Test Basic.miz

Edited January 5, 2021 by Phantom_Mark

[Phantom_Mark]

This version of the mission uses a combination of everything I can find that works properly, and works exactly how I would like, with the exception of always having a scripted target...just feels i am using a work around rather than how the options were maybe intended tho ? I could of course introduce some element of randomisation by using flags and stuff, but it really feels a botch job on my side to try and force it to work ?

Here we have 1 missile launched at individual tanks, then subsequent passes dropping individual CBU's.

AI Bomb Test Basic Multipass Multi Weapon.miz

Edited January 5, 2021 by Phantom_Mark

[toutenglisse]

It works normally on my side with deleting the "CAS" task (be sure to delete it in the FIRST waypoint, others are only references that you delete).

If I set 1 bomb per pass in the attack group task AI drops only 1, if I set 2 AI drops 2.

Here in this exemple the AI engages 3 Tanks with 1 bomb per pass.

test-bomb-quantity.miz

[Phantom_Mark]

27 minutes ago, toutenglisse said:

It works normally on my side with deleting the "CAS" task (be sure to delete it in the FIRST waypoint, others are only references that you delete).

If I set 1 bomb per pass in the attack group task AI drops only 1, if I set 2 AI drops 2.

Here in this exemple the AI engages 3 Tanks with 1 bomb per pass.

test-bomb-quantity.miz 9.7 kB · 1 download

Mine is setup exactly the same as yours, removing the CAS script in the first waypoint.......download it and take a look.....the only difference is I am using CBU's instead of Iron Bombs like you. Yours worked pretty much as expected, except what is the point of the Max Attack QTY ? you have it ticked like me , which infers it should only release 1 bomb and only do 1 pass.......or we would untick that box so it would do multiple passes releasing 1 bomb per time, this is part of the confusion ? I appreciate that point may be open to interpretation and I am expecting more than it actually delivers.

This mission in this post.
 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Phantom_Mark

[toutenglisse]

regarding attack qty limit I didn't thought much about it - saw you had it ticked so did same   Btw it didn't limit a 2 bombs drop per pass when I set 2 for attack qty.

 

Per text it is said (here : Controller (digitalcombatsimulator.com) ) : 

 

• attackQty (optional)

This parameter limits maximal quantity of attack. The aicraft/group will not make more attack than allowed even if the target group not destroyed and the aicraft/group still have ammo. If not defined the aircraft/group will attack target until it will be destroyed or until the aircraft/group will run out of ammo.

• attackQtyLimit (optional)

The flag determines how to interpret attackQty parameter. If the flag is true then attackQty is a limit on maximal attack quantity for "AttackGroup" and "AttackUnit" tasks. If the flag is false then attackQty is a desired attack quantity for "Bombing" and "BombingRunway" tasks.

Note: this looks like not a good solution. It would be better to have two number parameters: required parameter attackQty for "Bombing" and "BombingRunway" tasks and attackQtyLimit for "AttackGroup" and "AttackUnit" tasks.

[Phantom_Mark]

Then that part I think we can agree is at least broken, Max Attack,  as well as some oddity with the amount of ATGM missiles being released despite being set to 1 ?

[toutenglisse]

I think I understand why the AI hornet fires 2 MavE when 1 per attack is asked - here a track (because usually the 2 missiles hit the same target) in which the AI fires 2 MavE when 1 is asked but the 2 missiles hit 2 different targets (when the first MavE hits its target, AI "switch to second target and lase" so 2nd MavE hits a second target). But inconsistent at least.

 

I'm unconfident with how exactly Max attackQty works.

2-asm-pass.trk

[Phantom_Mark]

Will take a look thanks , re Max Attack - reading the text notes it does strongly suggest either it is broken, or not being understood by the user correctly, or simply a bad translation possibly ?

[toutenglisse]

Oh no I overlooked it, in fact in the track the 2 missiles are both guided toward same target. with trees I didn't see the first missed the kill.

I think something is wrong with ASM and desired attackQty effectively !

[Phantom_Mark]

1 minute ago, toutenglisse said:

Oh no I overlooked it, in fact in the track the 2 missiles are both guided toward same target. with trees I didn't see the first missed the kill.

I think something is wrong with ASM and desired attackQty effectively !

I wanted to be sure I had exhausted all user error before coming to that conclusion, your observation is exactly what I observed in my first post, thanks for your help, appreciated.

[Reflected]

It's not just your bombs. I have a mission where an AI p-47 has to attack a JU-88 with an 'attack group' task. He ignores it. The mission worked until December.

[[ED]Ben]

reported - thanks

[Phantom_Mark]

49 minutes ago, EDObi said:

reported - thanks

Thanks

[Reflected]

1 hour ago, EDObi said:

reported - thanks

 

Here's my example. Very different but same result:

 

 

attackgroup2.miz attackgroup2.trk

[Phantom_Mark]

I often use barebones missions to clarify a scenario I am working on before getting on to building a mission including that particular feature, and then store that mission for future reference as a future guide in case i forget how to make something work, if it needed a workaround , which is sadly how I came across this and other things in the first place.

[Phantom_Mark]

9 hours ago, Reflected said:

 

Here's my example. Very different but same result:

 

 

attackgroup2.miz 10.92 kB · 2 downloads attackgroup2.trk 81.98 kB · 1 download

Yep, having had a look it just ignores the instructions, I did try re-arranging the sequence of your trigger orders but to no avail ......so he was given authorisation to engage, and then the order to attack the target, made no difference at all tho, so def seems related to the AI generally ignoring specific instructions, and what was your other guy doing ?? when I ran it here he dived and climbed randomly......very weird, despite "no reaction" condition.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Phantom_Mark