Idle Cutoff with CM3

[dburne]

1 minute ago, imacken said:

On my CM2, if I have a button defined for 1-2% of the axis, I can't bind that to both off-idle and idle-off in DCS.  That's the need for a modifier.

 

Also, re afterburner, I have my throttle defined in VPC software as 3-82% and then I press the same modifier as for the idle/off in DCS for the AB to kick in.

 

It's virtual detents in CM2, obviously.

 

 

Ahhh ok, I will take a closer look at that - thanks. I have a feeling this is going to be a bit of a project for me. I guess when I get it right though, it should stay right lol.

[imacken]

Yep, it's like all these things, a pain initially, but then you hardly have to look at it again in the future!

[dburne]

6 minutes ago, imacken said:

Yep, it's like all these things, a pain initially, but then you hardly have to look at it again in the future!

 

I am not binding mine to off/idle and idle/off.

I am binding the off button to - off, and the idle button - to idle.

I am making the idle buttons come on just over the detent to idle position. And the off buttons to come on when throttle is pulled back to within 0-3% of full back.

Have not done any testing yet though in DCS, will resume working on it in the morning.

I feel quite sure in DCS it will likely be not working lol.

Edited January 12, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

21 minutes ago, imacken said:

On my CM2, if I have a button defined for 1-2% of the axis, I can't bind that to both off-idle and idle-off in DCS.  That's the need for a modifier.

 

Also, re afterburner, I have my throttle defined in VPC software as 3-82% and then I press the same modifier as for the idle/off in DCS for the AB to kick in.

 

It's virtual detents in CM2, obviously.

 

Where in the software does one define the total axis movement of the throtte?

I am not seeing it?

[imacken]

14 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

I am not binding mine to off/idle and idle/off.

I am binding the off button to - off, and the idle button - to idle.

I am making the idle buttons come on just over the detent to idle position. And the off buttons to come on when throttle is pulled back to within 0-3% of full back.

Have not done any testing yet though in DCS, will resume working on it in the morning.

I feel quite sure in DCS it will likely be not working lol.

 

Sorry, that's what I meant. didn't realise there actually was an idle-off binding!  Yes, I can see how that would work on the CM3.

1 minute ago, dburne said:

 

Where in the software does one define the total axis movement of the throtte?

I am not seeing it?

Well, again, it'll be different for you, but for the CM2, it's defined in the axes detents section in the attached.

Edited January 12, 2021 by imacken

[dburne]

Thanks I will have a look at that in the morning as well.

Only thing I don't know about these buttons I have assigned for idle and off, with that axis moving between the two what affect that will have.

[dburne]

Yay I got it after much fussing about and trying different things.

I was able to successfully get idle and cutoff set up for both throttles and working great. Did not have to change any travel in the Virpil software, just put button presses in the appropriate places and finish it off with a defined user curve for both axis in DCS where the virtual throttle does not move until beyond the idle detents. The buttons move the virtual throttle between off and idle detent. Then as the throttles move beyond idle detent the buttons turn off and the throttle axis takes over where it should.

 

Now I gotta see about adjusting afterburner a little, it kicks on just a little before the afterburner detent.

I expect I will need to work on the curve in DCS for that one also

[dburne]

Afterburner setup was a piece of cake, since it is just an axis setting all I had to do was adjust my physical detent back a little and presto, now afterburner only kicks when I pass the detent, and back off when I pull back over detent.

Nice touch Virpil making the detents adjustable a little front to back on the throttle.

 

Now I am pleased to say the Hornet is all set up for my controllers once again. Now to just committing all positions to muscle memory.

Still trying to wipe out the Warthog Throttle positions from my mind lol.

 

[MileHiRyder]

On 1/7/2021 at 11:40 AM, Shein said:

I appreciate the updated tutorial, I'm still using 61 through 64, because my DCS doesn't seem to want to see buttons higher than that for whatever reason. 

I was having the same issue but I noticed it wasn't a problem with DCS not seeing the higher buttons, the VPC Joy Tester was indicating that the throttle wasn't sending anything higher than button 64.

 

Looking at Ken's profile, he has assignments made to logical buttons 61 through 64 (the toggle switches).   Mine were unassigned and I was trying to follow his instructions to program logical buttons 65 through 68 like you.  Apparently the software doesn't like an unassigned gap between the logical button assignments because once I programed buttons 61 through 64 with my toggles, the throttle began sending all the assigned buttons up to 68.  Problem solved.  Seems like a software bug to me. 

[imacken]

3 hours ago, MileHiRyder said:

I was having the same issue but I noticed it wasn't a problem with DCS not seeing the higher buttons, the VPC Joy Tester was indicating that the throttle wasn't sending anything higher than button 64.

 

Looking at Ken's profile, he has assignments made to logical buttons 61 through 64 (the toggle switches).   Mine were unassigned and I was trying to follow his instructions to program logical buttons 65 through 68 like you.  Apparently the software doesn't like an unassigned gap between the logical button assignments because once I programed buttons 61 through 64 with my toggles, the throttle began sending all the assigned buttons up to 68.  Problem solved.  Seems like a software bug to me. 

You are spot on there.  Never noticed this before as I don't have gaps in my assigned buttons.  However, I tried it out, and sure enough, that causes issues with how Joystick Tester sees (or not sees) button presses.

I guess the solution is don't have gaps!  Well spotted.

[MileHiRyder]

These settings seem to be working fine so far with DCS.  The problem I have is that when I use the throttle for MS Flight Sim 2020, I can’t figure out a way to tune the axis so that the throttle position is zero when it’s resting at the lower detent like we can in DCS. 

 

Is there a way using the Virpil software to create a user defined “logical” axis range?  In other words, when my throttle is resting at the lower detent it’s at 13%.  I would like to be able to define the “physical” range of 13% - 100% to be a “logical” range of 0% - 100%.  Any position below "physical" 13% would just be programmed for button clicks.

 

This would enable the throttle to be used in any flight sim while keeping the detents in place and not requiring trying to tune out the 0 to 13% position.   

[CrashAlot]

I have this same issue with the CM3. For afterburner it was a piece of cake. I just adjusted the position of the physical detent to align with afterburner coming on and off in DCS. However I cant get the F/A-18 throttles to the cutoff position for Idle, i just adjusted the position of the physical detent like I did for afterburner. I moved the detent back a little so that when the CM3 throttles are resting against the idle cutoff detent, the F/A-18 is at idle. At least I think it is. It doesn't roll forward when on the ground with with the engine on and the brakes off and engine is at around 71 RPM's. And as soon as I move the throttles forward from resting back against the idle/cutoff detent, the throttles in the F/A-18 move forward and out of idle. The problem is that whenever I move the CM3 throttles past the idle/cutoff dent to the full off position, the throttles in the F/A-18 don't move any further to the rear beyond the idle position. 

I really understand why this is a happening because when the CM3 throttles are resting back against the idle/cutoff detent, they are registering 11% in the Virpil software and in the DCS Axis Tune, the black rectangle and red dots aren't all the way to zero. When I move the CM3 throttles back from 11% to 0% in the software, the black rectangle and red dots in the DCS Axis Tune window move all the way to the zero position on the axis, but the throttles in the F/A-18 remain in the idle position and don't move back to cutoff. 

I previously had the Thrustmaster Warthog throttle and the idle/cutoff detent was perfectly aligned with idle and cutoff in the F/A-18 without having to do anything special in DCS Control settings or in the TM software. When I moved the Warthog throttle back against the idle detent, the F/A-18 went to idle and when I lifted the Warthog throttle up over the detent and moved it to cutoff, the throttles in the F/A-18 went to cutoff and I didn't have a dead zone or a curve set up in the DCS Axis Tune. 

So when my CM3 throttles are at 11% and the Axis tune shows black rectangle and red dots not yet at the zero position on the axis, the F/A-18 throttles are at idle, so why aren't the F/A-18 throttles moving from idle to cutoff when I move the CM3 throttles from 11% to 0% and the DCS Axis tune indicators move to zero? 

I tried one of the suggestions in this thread where someone said to just add a deadzone in DCS that's 1% more than the % the CM# shows when in idle against the detent, but that definitely didn't work. I think it just made the problem worse. In DCS Axis tune for my throttle axis, I have the boxes checked for slider and invert. Adding a 12% (11% +1%) deadzone, just made it to where the throttles in the F/A-18 didnt respond at all to the first 12% of CM3 throttle movement rom cutoff to 12.

So is there any way to resolve this issue without adding virtual buttons in the Virpil software and the DCS Control settings for idle and cutoff?

I don't understand why it was so easy with the Warthog. Afterburner was a pain in the butt with the Warthog because you couldn't shift the position of the physical detent to align with the aircraft afterburner cut on and cut off. Luckily the idle/cutoff detent just worked with the Warthog, because you can't shift the position of that physical detent on the Warthog either. For me it just happened to work perfectly in the F/A-18. 

[zildac]

41 minutes ago, CrashAlot said:

I have this same issue with the CM3. For afterburner it was a piece of cake. I just adjusted the position of the physical detent to align with afterburner coming on and off in DCS. However I cant get the F/A-18 throttles to the cutoff position for Idle, i just adjusted the position of the physical detent like I did for afterburner. I moved the detent back a little so that when the CM3 throttles are resting against the idle cutoff detent, the F/A-18 is at idle. At least I think it is. It doesn't roll forward when on the ground with with the engine on and the brakes off and engine is at around 71 RPM's. And as soon as I move the throttles forward from resting back against the idle/cutoff detent, the throttles in the F/A-18 move forward and out of idle. The problem is that whenever I move the CM3 throttles past the idle/cutoff dent to the full off position, the throttles in the F/A-18 don't move any further to the rear beyond the idle position. 

I really understand why this is a happening because when the CM3 throttles are resting back against the idle/cutoff detent, they are registering 11% in the Virpil software and in the DCS Axis Tune, the black rectangle and red dots aren't all the way to zero. When I move the CM3 throttles back from 11% to 0% in the software, the black rectangle and red dots in the DCS Axis Tune window move all the way to the zero position on the axis, but the throttles in the F/A-18 remain in the idle position and don't move back to cutoff. 

I previously had the Thrustmaster Warthog throttle and the idle/cutoff detent was perfectly aligned with idle and cutoff in the F/A-18 without having to do anything special in DCS Control settings or in the TM software. When I moved the Warthog throttle back against the idle detent, the F/A-18 went to idle and when I lifted the Warthog throttle up over the detent and moved it to cutoff, the throttles in the F/A-18 went to cutoff and I didn't have a dead zone or a curve set up in the DCS Axis Tune. 

So when my CM3 throttles are at 11% and the Axis tune shows black rectangle and red dots not yet at the zero position on the axis, the F/A-18 throttles are at idle, so why aren't the F/A-18 throttles moving from idle to cutoff when I move the CM3 throttles from 11% to 0% and the DCS Axis tune indicators move to zero? 

I tried one of the suggestions in this thread where someone said to just add a deadzone in DCS that's 1% more than the % the CM# shows when in idle against the detent, but that definitely didn't work. I think it just made the problem worse. In DCS Axis tune for my throttle axis, I have the boxes checked for slider and invert. Adding a 12% (11% +1%) deadzone, just made it to where the throttles in the F/A-18 didnt respond at all to the first 12% of CM3 throttle movement rom cutoff to 12.

So is there any way to resolve this issue without adding virtual buttons in the Virpil software and the DCS Control settings for idle and cutoff?

I don't understand why it was so easy with the Warthog. Afterburner was a pain in the butt with the Warthog because you couldn't shift the position of the physical detent to align with the aircraft afterburner cut on and cut off. Luckily the idle/cutoff detent just worked with the Warthog, because you can't shift the position of that physical detent on the Warthog either. For me it just happened to work perfectly in the F/A-18. 

I'll let @imacken answer, as he has an excellent guide that covers this and many other things, and I can't for the life of me find the post at the minute. But fundamentally you assign a percentage of the lower throttle axis travel 0% (as I recall) to a "button" and that button is then mapped in DCS to IDLE/Cut-off.....works a treat. This does require you to "tweak" dead zones etc such that you hit 0% when passing back through the detent.

Edited November 10, 2021 by zildac

[imacken]

I think the thread zildac is referring to is this

 

However, although a lot of that is still relevant, the software has changed and the method is a little different now. 
What version are you on @CrashAlot

[zildac]

I think the thread zildac is referring to is this
 
However, although a lot of that is still relevant, the software has changed and the method is a little different now. 
What version are you on @CrashAlot

Be interested in what's changed.

[malarcky]

I am cofiguring my detents, but would not the method of adding saturation to the X, or curve with deadzone, on the throtle be a way to lose resolution? you are making the throtle shorter than it is right?

Edited October 26, 2022 by malarcky

[imacken]

Do you mean at the AB detent?  Well, yes, but the alternative is either going over the AB detent every time you move the throttle forward for non-AB modules, or removing/replacing the detent each time you change modules.

In practice, I prefer the shorter throw, but you may feel differently. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by imacken

[malarcky]

12 hours ago, imacken said:

Do you mean at the AB detent?  Well, yes, but the alternative is either going over the AB detent every time you move the throttle forward for non-AB modules, or removing/replacing the detent each time you change modules.

In practice, I prefer the shorter throw, but you may feel differently. 

 

Yes I mean that, yeah you're right, just want to make sure to get at least my main module (viper), and then I am adjusting the saturation on the other ones, thanks for clarification.

[Burt]

Super excited to get my throttle in but really nervous with the software and rebinding everything. This has helped reading through this thread. 
 

Thanks

[jnr4817]

How much better has the software improved. I’m still using an old build as my k51 collective has had issues with newer versions. 

[imacken]

Personally, I have never had any issues with any version, but the latest few builds have had lots of new facilities, improvements, etc.

Try it out. You can always go back.

[Tom Kazansky]

EDIT: disregard plz. I've found out that my version of software does not need the "result button" anymore. The resulting buttons are created without it.

 

original post:

 

hi,

I'm new to Virpil stuff.

I'd like to have this axis to button thingy for my new CM3 throttle, but my Virpil software doesn't seem to have the "result button" area in the "axis to button (customizable areas)" block.

What I'm missing?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mine looks like (VPC_Software_Setup_v20230328):

 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Tom Kazansky