Idle Cutoff with CM3

[Shein]

Hi all, I might be one of the first lucky guys to get his CM3 throttle. I installed the finger lift to go behind idle cut off, but now I have a few questions. 
Do I calibrate the throttle to see the full range? or just from detent to max? 
If I calibrate from forward of detent to max, will the software still see behind the detent such that I can make a button for idle cut off? 
How to I make behind the detent a button so I can properly bind idle cutoff for most modern fighters (like A-10)

 

Thanks in advance. 

[rob10]

Don't have the CM3 but there is a post and some discussion about this in the Virpil forums today (relevant post is by 787Eagle): https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/2414-throttle-cm3/page/9/#comments

[RightYouAreKen]

Here's what I did to set up detents for the Hornet with my CM3 that I received yesterday:

1. Calibrate full range of motion of the axes.  Don't worry about the detents. 
2. Install the physical detents roughly where you want them (I used the Warthog style rear detent for idle cutoff and the aerobatic front detent for a full mil power "bump" that I can push through).
3. Check to see where your throttle settles above the idle detent but pulled all the way back.  Mine are at 14% or so.
4. In the axis to buttons mapping in the Virpil software, I set the following:
   1. Axis 1 idle setting 10-13%, button 125
   2. Axis 1 fuel cutoff setting 0-3%, button 126
   3. Axis 2 idle setting 10-13%, button 127
   4. Axis 2 fuel cutoff setting 0-3%, button 128
   • 
5. In The Virpil software, go to the buttons page and create new logical buttons (I used buttons 65-68) to provide a Windows recognized output button for the physical buttons 125-128 (which are internal to the throttle) that you created in the previous step (NOTE: ignore the read lightlights on buttons 61-64 (physical buttons 041, 043, 045, 047) as those are unrelated to throttle detents...they are just active in this picture).
   • 
6. Then go into DCS and map buttons 65-68 to their respective functions for the left and right engines.
   • 
7. Then go into the throttle axis curves in DCS for each throttle axis and change the curves so that when you pull the throttles back to idle (above the detent) you're truly getting full idle in the sim.  you can see my user curve drops down the curve so I'm hitting 0% throttle at 15% or so on my axis.  This lets you have a true idle position but still have travel on the axis for your fuel cut detent.
8. Adjust the top end of your axis curves, along with the physical position of your afterburner detent, to match the full mil power position on the throttle but again, still be able to get full power/max afterburner at full travel on your throttle axes.
   • 

 

I didn't mess with the Virpil detent settings cause I couldn't really figure them out.  Hope that helps!

 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by RightYouAreKen

[Shein]

Literally exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much. 
I wish I could buy you a beer. 
While I still have you here, does your CM3 show up as a CM2 in the calibration software? mine does, as I understand it the only difference between the CM2 and CM3 are detents but I just wanna be sure

 

EDIT: DCS doesn't seem to want to see button 125-128. The virpil software sees it though, any ideas? 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Shein

[Shrimp]

For the idle axis setting inside DCS to match the physical position of the CM3 throttle it is easier to check in VPC the axis percentage value when the CM3 is at Idle and then just add 1% and set this value as dead zone for the respective axis in DCS.

 

As for buttons 125-128 they are physical buttons in VPC that must be programmed to logical buttons in the ‘Buttons’ tab. Then DCS will ‘see’ them.

 

Cheers!!!

[RightYouAreKen]

12 hours ago, Shein said:

Literally exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much. 
I wish I could buy you a beer. 
While I still have you here, does your CM3 show up as a CM2 in the calibration software? mine does, as I understand it the only difference between the CM2 and CM3 are detents but I just wanna be sure

 

EDIT: DCS doesn't seem to want to see button 125-128. The virpil software sees it though, any ideas? 

 

 

No, mine shows it everywhere as the CM3.  In fact the little picture of the device shows a CM3 with finger lifts too.  Are you using the latest software with CM3 support?  https://virpil.freshdesk.com/en/support/solutions/articles/47001164128-vpc-software-setup-version-20210102- 

 

 

As for buttons 128-128, you need to add them to the logical button mapping table as shown in the red box in this screenshot.

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by RightYouAreKen

[Shein]

Crap. So I might have flashed CM2 stuff to my CM3. Great... thanks for the replies, all! Will report back. 

 

EDIT: Figured it out. Need to "create new profile" with the correct model selected... that will fix it. THEN update firmware

 

EDIT: AND NOW my finger slider and slew no longer work. Can't calibrate them. Wonderful! 

EDIT: Turns out you can't have the "5 way modifier" selected when creating a new profile. So that's fixed. 
But now still following your screenshots to the letter,  I cannot for the life of me get DCS to recognize those buttons for the throttle cut off. I'm at my wit's end with this sucker. 

EDIT: Figured it out. DCS won't see buttons higher than button 64. When I used button 61 and 62 to be button 125 and 127 it worked... so that begs the question, how did you get buttons higher than 64 to work? 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Shein

[dburne]

Following this thread carefully as I am sure I will be dealing with setting idle/off for my detents sometime tomorrow.

I thought pulling back over the idle detent generated a button like the Warthog throttle does, but now I see it does not.

[RightYouAreKen]

I realize I left out the physical button to logical button step, which could cause a lot of confusion, so I've edited my post above and inserted some more screenshots to illustrate better.

[Shein]

I appreciate the updated tutorial, I'm still using 61 through 64, because my DCS doesn't seem to want to see buttons higher than that for whatever reason. 

[dburne]

I used the method Ken posted above earlier today and it worked a champ!

I am so grateful for that help!

[Shein]

On 1/7/2021 at 2:50 PM, dburne said:

I used the method Ken posted above earlier today and it worked a champ!

I am so grateful for that help!

well, that concerns me even more that my DCS can't see buttons greater than 64

[imacken]

Can you post screenshots of your Button tab from VPC software? Particularly showing the higher button numbers.

[Shein]

1 hour ago, imacken said:

Can you post screenshots of your Button tab from VPC software? Particularly showing the higher button numbers.

 

[RightYouAreKen]

So, at the moment, you don't have any logical buttons higher than 64 mapped (right hand pane in your above screenshot).  The Logical buttons are what windows sees as output from the device.  The physical buttons are internal to the joystick and are not output to windows.    Are you saying that you've tried to map something to logical button 65 in the right part of your above screenshot and DCS didn't recognize it?

 

I have logical buttons mapped up to logical button 68 and DCS seems them fine.  

Edited January 12, 2021 by RightYouAreKen

[imacken]

39 minutes ago, Shein said:

 

As already stated, you don’t have any Windows (logical) buttons greater than 64 so that is why you are not seeing them in DCS. 

[Shein]

16 minutes ago, imacken said:

As already stated, you don’t have any Windows (logical) buttons greater than 64 so that is why you are not seeing them in DCS. 

well of course I dont because they didn't work, so I switched them to less than 64. When bound higher, like that but just shifted down, DCS will not see them 

[imacken]

What do you mean shifted down?

[dburne]

This is what mine looks like.

 

[imacken]

Right, and that is one of the things that is odd. Shein seems to have all the default values e.g. 56-60 Logical, not defined as they should be.  Not sure what is going on there at all.

29 minutes ago, dburne said:

This is what mine looks like.

 

BTW, you can hide all the non VPC devices from showing up in the list by pressing ctrl+F12 and selecting 'Show only VPC devices'.  If you ever want them back, do do the same in reverse!

[dburne]

1 hour ago, imacken said:

Right, and that is one of the things that is odd. Shein seems to have all the default values e.g. 56-60 Logical, not defined as they should be.  Not sure what is going on there at all.

BTW, you can hide all the non VPC devices from showing up in the list by pressing ctrl+F12 and selecting 'Show only VPC devices'.  If you ever want them back, do do the same in reverse!

 

Gotcha thanks for the tip.

 

[dburne]

Well I have wasted a good part of the afternoon trying to get my idle/off detents working properly with the Hornet.

Just over the detent and the engines are too fast apparently as the chief will not pull the chocks, pull back and then it goes to shut down. Trying working with a curve in axis tune to get it about right but apparently I am not getting even close. Ugh.

Ii figured the way I had it set up with those button presses it would have been fine. Nope.

 

Any ideas? Thanks for any help! 

[imacken]

Well, as I am still waiting on my CM3, I'm using the CM2, so although most things are the same, I'm really not sure how some of the detent stuff works on the CM3.

Certainly for me, I have an axis-to-button defined for 1-2% of the throttle movement for each one.  These I map to off-idle in DCS.  Then, I map a modifier plus the same button in DCS for idle to off.

But, as I say, I can't help with CM3 detent stuff at the moment.  I wish I could!

[dburne]

No problem, am making some adjustments to the percentages in the VPC software on where idle and off kick in, may be making some progress.

Probably won't know more at this point till tomorrow. 

 

Not sure I understand a need to map a modifier though, probably will dawn on me as I get little more into it.

Thanks,

[imacken]

On my CM2, if I have a button defined for 1-2% of the axis, I can't bind that to both off-idle and idle-off in DCS.  That's the need for a modifier.

 

Also, re afterburner, I have my throttle defined in VPC software as 3-82% and then I press the same modifier as for the idle/off in DCS for the AB to kick in.

 

It's virtual detents in CM2, obviously.