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Been trying to get a Good Feel for the P-47 over last couple months.    But of all my Aircraft - this one has been the most challenging.

Almost all my other War Birds have detectable cues you can pick up on as you approach and reach Stall AoA - and back off the Pull/Back-Pressure on the Stick before you Depart controlled Flight.   The P-51 Stang took a while to feel out - but I'm Good with her Now.  But the 'Jug' is an entirely different Animal.

 

I really don't detect any cues (Vibration - Buffet - Lack of Turn Rate - etc...) at all before she'll snap off and depart into a Spin - Usually at the most inopportune time.     Besides flying her gently like a Fast Cessna 172 - what's a Feller to do ?  

 

 Any tips would be appreciated.

 

TANKS !

 

Related:

Spin, Spin Spin.....
https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/257010-spin-spin-spin/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Her mass might dampen things a bit.

 

Sounds like you're at high power when this happens? What is your speed on entry?

Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port

"When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover.

The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts.

"An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."

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I got the P-47 earlier this evening and taken her out for some flying...

 

The roll due to torque/spin is quite controllable if you're on the rudder as you add power. Even slamming the throttle from near-idle to max power is controllable with rudder and some aileron.

 

I tested empty, full aux tank (aft CoG), and low speed/high AoA (~100 MPH).

 

Accelerated stall entry is a bit harder to deal with, but unload, power, and anti-spin control inputs can really help get you out even at low altitude. Just don't go trying to bury the airspeed needle below 100 kts and you can get out of most situations from relatively low altitude.

 

She flies really nice! My only question is: does the engine really fail that quickly if you mis-handle it? Specifically low power at relatively high speed. Seems to destroy the engine in seconds.

Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port

"When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover.

The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts.

"An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."

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6 hours ago, Tiger-II said:

 

 

She flies really nice! My only question is: does the engine really fail that quickly if you mis-handle it? Specifically low power at relatively high speed. Seems to destroy the engine in seconds.

You need to reduce RPM before reducing throttle, master bearing wont survive long.

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16 hours ago, grafspee said:

You need to reduce RPM before reducing throttle, master bearing wont survive long.

 

Thanks! I saw another post that says this is accurate to the real engine due to it having a single main bearing.

Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port

"When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover.

The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts.

"An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."

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21 hours ago, grafspee said:

You need to reduce RPM before reducing throttle, master bearing wont survive long.

 

Is this specific to the Thunderbolt? It should always be "prop on top:" Advance RPM before advancing throttle, reduce throttle before reducing RPM.

YouTube Channel: "Clutch"

 

Z390 Aorus Elite | i5-9600k @4.7Ghz | RTX2070 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 | Odyssey Plus | Warthog HOTAS | 20cm Extension

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46 minutes ago, Nealius said:

 

Is this specific to the Thunderbolt? It should always be "prop on top:" Advance RPM before advancing throttle, reduce throttle before reducing RPM.

What i meant that you need to do it in steps

Drop MP a little bit then drop rpm a little bit something like that, when you cut throttle to 0 with out reducing rpm at the same time master bearing wont survive.

In our P-47 we have throttle/rpm interconnector, this is super handy in dives when you need to reduce power a lot to not over speed.

Rule stays the same when reducing power always throttle go first then rpm.

But someone posted interesting observation, that when you set your rpm higher then 2900 engine main bearing will be damaged no matter MP is.Mine failed at 3000rpm at 52" in matter of seconds when 3060rpm is max permissible rpm for p-47.Something isn't modeled as should be. Maybe in deed engine is too touchy in this underboost departament. Sure you can avoid it, easy when operating below 2700 rpm but at higher rpm engine should survive as well.


Edited by grafspee
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This does seem way too touchy, because having to reduce throttle AND RPM during landing, and then being expected to put both throttle AND RPM back on for a go-around seems wholly unreasonable to me. No other warbird has issues with prop pitch full, idle throttle. 

YouTube Channel: "Clutch"

 

Z390 Aorus Elite | i5-9600k @4.7Ghz | RTX2070 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 | Odyssey Plus | Warthog HOTAS | 20cm Extension

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^ That's because they don't have this bearing-related stuff implemented yet :D. Well, A-8 does, but since it adjusts throttle and pitch at the same time, it doesn't count. Seriously though, I think P-47 will be a testbed for a while before these effects get tweaked and introduced in other warbirds as well.

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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58 minutes ago, Art-J said:

^ That's because they don't have this bearing-related stuff implemented yet :D. Well, A-8 does, but since it adjusts throttle and pitch at the same time, it doesn't count. Seriously though, I think P-47 will be a testbed for a while before these effects get tweaked and introduced in other warbirds as well.

It's only for radials, V12 are immune to that.

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6 hours ago, Nealius said:

This does seem way too touchy, because having to reduce throttle AND RPM during landing, and then being expected to put both throttle AND RPM back on for a go-around seems wholly unreasonable to me. No other warbird has issues with prop pitch full, idle throttle. 

I'm not sure about this.

When you're flying reasonably slow (ca. 150 mph) pulling the throttle to idle with RPM level at max (or better, at the specified 2550 rpm) shouldn't be an issue - the prop RPM will drop anyway.

Every manual tells you to set RPM to 2550 prior to landing (usually upon entering the landing pattern) along with all other landing checks.

landing.png

I've been following this instruction on every landing and never had any issue (unless the engine was already damaged)


Edited by PL_Harpoon
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"Engine controls - interconnected"

 

Link throttle and prop for landing?? Am I understanding this correctly?

Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port

"When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover.

The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts.

"An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."

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