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NOOB QUESTION: F-14 unflyable, what am I missing here?


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Hi all.

I've been flying this awesome mod for the past couple of days now (as part of the free trial).

I am astounded by the level of details and realism. I seems a lot of effort was put into this and I really like that.

 

Alas, when I take the tomcat to a gun fight against an ACE AI (quite an easy task, when flown with other DCS planes), I find it almost impossible to control. I find myself fighting to keep control over the aircraft. A/C frequently departs control and which usually result in un-commanded rolls.

 

I am not a noob in DCS itself and can manage most of its planes (F-15, F-16, F-18, SU-27/33, Mig-29, Mirage 2000). But the F-14 still baffles me under dogfight conditions.

 

P.S. In normal flight (takeoff, landing and even carrier landing) I find it very comfortable. It is only when the maneuvering starts that I find struggle.

 

What am I missing here??


Edited by Zohardv
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2 hours ago, Zohardv said:

What am I missing here??

TLDR you have to use rudders for rolling in high AoA and don't pull over 17 units AoA.

i3-10100F 3.6-4.3GHz, 16GB DDR4 2666, GTX970 4GB, SSD SATA3, Win10Home64, 27" LCD FullHD, T16000M HOTAS, customTiR

Aircraft: FC3, F-14B / Supercarrier / Maps: NTTR, PG

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OK OK.. I'm starting to realize some stuff...

First of all, thanks for the video (and the TLDR 🙂).

I just realized that I'm supposed to use DLC (thumbwheel on the stick) to control my maneuvers. I'm used to have all of those working automatically (i.e. LEFs in the F-16).

Is there an "Auto" mode for the DLS? Slats, Flaps etc...

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DLC is used only in landing config. Maneuvering flaps and slats are operating automatically by default. You can override them manually but it won't give you any advantage. Mind that F-14 is currently a bit underpowered.

i3-10100F 3.6-4.3GHz, 16GB DDR4 2666, GTX970 4GB, SSD SATA3, Win10Home64, 27" LCD FullHD, T16000M HOTAS, customTiR

Aircraft: FC3, F-14B / Supercarrier / Maps: NTTR, PG

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Not sure if its mentioned in the video, but watch your fuel load ... at 16000lbs of fuel, it'll struggle; get it down to 8000lbs and it improves significantly.

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  • Zohardv changed the title to NOOB QUESTION: F-14 unflyable, what am I missing here?

Hi Zohardv,

 

Use the rudder, the F 14 this maneuver like a warbird

Tower : IN WIN D-Frame Red - Watercooling : EKWB (CM, CPU, CG) - Alim : Corsair RM1000x - CM : Asus Maximus XI Formula - CPU : Intel i9 9900K 5.1Ghz - CG : Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080Ti Strix OC 11Go - RAM : DDR4 Corsair Vengeance LPX 64Go 3000Mhz - Windows 10 64 - DD System : 1To (2 SSD PCIe M.2 NvMe Samsung 970 Pro 500Go RAID 0) - Hotas : Virpil V.F.X Grip, MongoosT 50CM2 Throttle - Rudder : Thrustmaster TPR - VR Headset : HP Reverb - Monitor : Asus ROG PG348Q - Keyboard, Mouse : Steelseries

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Hi all.

I've been trying to use the rudder as suggested. I think the issue has to do more with energy management. I find myself struggling to maneuver with the speed dropping below 150 knots.

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5 hours ago, Zohardv said:

I find myself struggling to maneuver with the speed dropping below 150 knots.

You're pulling too much. Stay around M0,5-0,6.

i3-10100F 3.6-4.3GHz, 16GB DDR4 2666, GTX970 4GB, SSD SATA3, Win10Home64, 27" LCD FullHD, T16000M HOTAS, customTiR

Aircraft: FC3, F-14B / Supercarrier / Maps: NTTR, PG

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max AoA 15-20, and when you are under 100 kts use differencial thrust for turn for exemple when your are vertical


Edited by P0G0

Tower : IN WIN D-Frame Red - Watercooling : EKWB (CM, CPU, CG) - Alim : Corsair RM1000x - CM : Asus Maximus XI Formula - CPU : Intel i9 9900K 5.1Ghz - CG : Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080Ti Strix OC 11Go - RAM : DDR4 Corsair Vengeance LPX 64Go 3000Mhz - Windows 10 64 - DD System : 1To (2 SSD PCIe M.2 NvMe Samsung 970 Pro 500Go RAID 0) - Hotas : Virpil V.F.X Grip, MongoosT 50CM2 Throttle - Rudder : Thrustmaster TPR - VR Headset : HP Reverb - Monitor : Asus ROG PG348Q - Keyboard, Mouse : Steelseries

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Yeah, this is a big difference between the Tomcat and all the other of your jets: it has no FBW. As such, it's perfectly possible to pull more than it can handle. In the other jets, you can get away with "pull to stops for fastest turn" thinking, no so here, where it's more "pull to stops to make the wings fall off". 🙂 You have to watch your G and AoA, made worse by the G meter being in a rather inconvenient place.

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6 hours ago, P0G0 said:

max AoA 15-20, and when you are under 100 kts use differencial thrust for turn for exemple when your are vertical

 

Getting that slow in the vertical is the only time I've stalled the TF30s in the A so far and splitting the throttles at the same time is likely to cause a flame out in one or both.  The F110s in the B are less likely to fail, but you're still throwing the plane into a spin on purpose.  Better to not get that slow in the first place.

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On 1/2/2021 at 11:25 PM, Zohardv said:

...I am not a noob in DCS itself and can manage most of its planes (F-15, F-16, F-18, SU-27/33, Mig-29, Mirage 2000)...

All of those planes are either fly-by-wire or low-fidelity (which AFAIK is modeled like FBW), the Tomcat is not.  A plane with FBW will essentially fly itself, so it's capable of maintaining stability in more extreme flight-regimes then a non-FBW plane like the Tomcat.  That's not to say an F-14 is inferior to an FBW plane, but you do have to be far more careful with it in the Danger Zone, because it's not helping you stay out of trouble like the FCS in the Hornet or the Viper will.


Edited by 9thHunt
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2 hours ago, 9thHunt said:

All of those planes are either fly-by-wire or low-fidelity (which AFAIK is modeled like FBW), the Tomcat is not.

There are no flyable aircraft with simplified flight model in DCS currently. Those times are long gone.

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i3-10100F 3.6-4.3GHz, 16GB DDR4 2666, GTX970 4GB, SSD SATA3, Win10Home64, 27" LCD FullHD, T16000M HOTAS, customTiR

Aircraft: FC3, F-14B / Supercarrier / Maps: NTTR, PG

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On 1/4/2021 at 5:49 AM, Zohardv said:

Hi all.

I've been trying to use the rudder as suggested. I think the issue has to do more with energy management. I find myself struggling to maneuver with the speed dropping below 150 knots.

Stop trying to keep the bandit in your HUD and fly the plane. You only need the bandit to stay one second in your HUD to score the kill. You're complaining about the easy planes being easy to fly while the F-14 is difficult to fly. All of this is realistic. And despite being the most difficult to learn, the F-14 is also the very best in close air combat. Just come back to basics and it will make you even more proficient with the F-15, F-16, F-18, SU-27/33, Mig-29, Mirage 2000. Because in those planes, a good Tomcat pilot will beat any single simmer on earth, except another good Tomcat pilot flying a Tomcat.

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First off turn off the roll SAS channel before engaging in any maneuvering. (I think that's what it's called). Secondly you can watch that AoA gauge, but more importantly look at the cockpit shake, it's a great indicator of what is going on with regards to your AoA. You can easily pull a lot of AoA in the F14, there is no FBW which will prevent you from doing that, but remember that you are trading airspeed for nose authority. Thirdly if you do pull a lot of AoA, use your rudders to help you roll in the turn, and with very high AoA use only your rudders for rolling. I can't stress this third part enough, it's critical to getting a good handle on BFM in the F14 and if you stick to how you fly other jets you will never get anywhere in the F14. 

 

Once you get a feel for it, you will not need to look at another gauge in the F14 again (except the airpseed indicator every now and again) which is the way it should be in BFM. 


Edited by Lurker
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@*Aquila*  "a good Tomcat pilot will beat any single simmer on earth, except another good Tomcat pilot flying a Tomcat."

 

I'd be keen to see any recent tracks you have against a good 18 pilot, because since the recent 'corrections', I'm getting stuffed every time! Prior to that, as long as could avoid the second pass, it was fairly easy due to the 14s insane turn rate.

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Thank you all for the advice. I'm still struggling with the tomcat, but slowly getting the hang of it. Still can't manage an ACE AI though 🙄 (only once in a while).

I'll keep training to it.

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One, perhaps ''weird'' question...

Yesterday I tried to dogfight with roll SAS of, but when I turned sas back on, during landing on hud there was no path vector indicator (I had landing hud set)..
Could that be, because I manouver to violently and broke something, or there is something else...?

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4 hours ago, blokovchan said:

Could that be, because I manouver to violently and broke something, or there is something else...?

 

Possibly; until you develop the muscle memory required to not over-G the Cat it is very easy to jerk the plane into high onset G rates and inadvertently pull loads of 9-10G, particularly in the 400-500 knot range. That's enough to make the INS throw a tantrum and knock-out navigational and trajectory information systems but not to rip wings off.

 

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