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very undynamic unrealistic missile turns in early stages of A2A radar-missiles launch


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As you can see in both videos (and .trks, tacviews), the missiles make very undymanic unrealistic turns in the beginning (notice my rapid mouse-movement to highlight those moments).

Also affects multiplayer, it is noticable to targeted players when they see a jet launching such a missile at them and the missile making these unrealistic turns (note that air is compressible, so it should be a lot more fluent moves, so only for example torpedos could be able to make such rapid turns as water is not compressible)

And yes, SD-10 is using ED missile guidance-scheme: [https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/256309-sd-10-sms-target-size-determines-active-seeker-on-distance/?tab=comments#comment-4516156]

(non thrust-vectoring) Heater missiles might also be affected, needs further testing.

 

 

 

Tacview-SD-10-DCS.zip.acmi Tacview-120B-DCS.zip.acmi AIM-120B-undynamicTurns.trk SD-10undynamicTurns.trk


Edited by DanielNL
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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, nighthawk2174 said:

I'm what exactly are you talking about?

Did you check the videos, y or n?

 

grafik.png


Edited by DanielNL

DCS Wishlist: Stinger fix (frustrating bug since 1+ year already...), TOR SAM selfdestruct-logic (revert to previous far more realistic behaviour. Since 6+ months already)

canopy 6DOF tracking-limit (deny head-through-canopy), 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM

 basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a DCS pilot claims about another famous DCS pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence - that would only be bullheadedly
Dell Visor WMR, Ryzen 5 3600 (6C/12T), RX 580 8GB  - "5 years clean, came back because hornet" - a long-time DCS player on Discord - "How is the payment?" - forum user question about Razbam Dev group membership xD
PvP: 125+ hours AV-8B VTOL (denying low-to-medium airspace since 2020), JF-17 AKG-A2A, F-16C, F-14 pilot - PvP campaigns since 2013

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grafik.png

 

Obviously the missile turns should be more fluent, that would automatically make them more realistic. omg

DCS Wishlist: Stinger fix (frustrating bug since 1+ year already...), TOR SAM selfdestruct-logic (revert to previous far more realistic behaviour. Since 6+ months already)

canopy 6DOF tracking-limit (deny head-through-canopy), 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM

 basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a DCS pilot claims about another famous DCS pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence - that would only be bullheadedly
Dell Visor WMR, Ryzen 5 3600 (6C/12T), RX 580 8GB  - "5 years clean, came back because hornet" - a long-time DCS player on Discord - "How is the payment?" - forum user question about Razbam Dev group membership xD
PvP: 125+ hours AV-8B VTOL (denying low-to-medium airspace since 2020), JF-17 AKG-A2A, F-16C, F-14 pilot - PvP campaigns since 2013

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41 minutes ago, DanielNL said:

grafik.png

 

Obviously the missile turns should be more fluent, that would automatically make them more realistic. omg

Did you measure the actual turn rate or are you going off what feels "correct" to you?

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22 minutes ago, VFA41_Lion said:

This looks more like network lag causing a rubberbanding or bouncing missile than actual missile launch animations.

from my sentence "Also affects multiplayer, ..." it should be clear that the provided videos and trackfiles are all from singleplayer... so no network lag possible.

 

11 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

Did you measure the actual turn rate or are you going off what feels "correct" to you?

everyone with half-way good eyes can see that the specified (highlighted) moments, the missile makes 2-4 totally undynamic edgy turns... please watch again if you were not able to notice

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DCS Wishlist: Stinger fix (frustrating bug since 1+ year already...), TOR SAM selfdestruct-logic (revert to previous far more realistic behaviour. Since 6+ months already)

canopy 6DOF tracking-limit (deny head-through-canopy), 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM

 basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a DCS pilot claims about another famous DCS pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence - that would only be bullheadedly
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3 minutes ago, DanielNL said:

everyone with half-way good eyes can see that the specified (highlighted) moments, the missile makes 2-4 totally undynamic edgy turns... please watch again if you were not able to notice

??????

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ok, yes, I see they're in singleplayer. However I've watched hours of AI fighting it out in Liberation missions and in the sim, the launch animations appear smooth and fluid to me. No weird jerking around or anything.

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1 hour ago, DanielNL said:

Obviously the missile turns should be more fluent, that would automatically make them more realistic. omg

 

What do you mean more fluent?   The missile spawns, which might cause 'jerking' right at that moment in tacview, then it performs its safety maneuver (correctly or not) and then continues on with PN which will take a certain amount of lead that depends on the target closure (so the lead may be exaggerated at first, though this doesn't seem to be what you're showing).

 

Anyway the behavior is fine, not sure what kind of problem it's causing you right now.  There are much bigger fish to fry with missiles.

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27 minutes ago, DanielNL said:

everyone with half-way good eyes can see that the specified (highlighted) moments, the missile makes 2-4 totally undynamic edgy turns... please watch again if you were not able to notice

watched it, see nothing wrong. Has nothing to do with having "half good eyes" The question is, what is your rational, evidence based reason its incorrect? The fact that it looks/feels undynamic to you is irrelevant. Still waiting on some actual evidence that the missiles are turning too quickly.

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In fact, I decided to download the tacview and see what the turn rate was. The maximum turn rate the missile reached was 12°/sec, and a max G of 8.4. This is well under its maximum G/turn rate capability at that speed. So again, nothing is factually wrong, unless you have evidence that a 12°/s turn rate at M1.2 is somehow too high

 

16 minutes ago, razo+r said:

Perhaps OP is refering to the point (see picture) when the missile stops turning and gains speed that create this corner in the path?

 

image.png

No thats not what he's referencing, at least its not whats being shown in the tacviews. He is referring to the initial turn after the saftey manuever


Edited by dundun92

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Is the OP referring to the missiles rolling level after launch?  (At least that's when his mouse movements are the most spastic)  My understanding is that is the cruciform fins correcting for the extreme bank angle on launch, there's nothing wrong with that.  And does he mean "Fluid?"  I don't see how the missiles ability to speak clearly factors into this.  Also, these are missiles designed to pull extreme g-forces in order to catch targets, if anything, the movements in these videos look too fluid.


Edited by 9thHunt
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Posted (edited)

There is no acceleration in the changing motions of the missile shortly after launch. They appear to "bounce" off of something like a ball bounces off a wall... that's the thing... but the missiles are not hitting any wall, only the missiles' control-surfaces are moving and thereby the force of the air pushes on these surfaces and gradually (not instantly! An accellerating movement!) turn the missile into the new direction, especially gradually because these missiles have a big mass so shortly after launch, and the law of inertia applies here aswell (and lift-induced drag)


Edited by DanielNL
  • Confused 1

DCS Wishlist: Stinger fix (frustrating bug since 1+ year already...), TOR SAM selfdestruct-logic (revert to previous far more realistic behaviour. Since 6+ months already)

canopy 6DOF tracking-limit (deny head-through-canopy), 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM

 basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a DCS pilot claims about another famous DCS pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence - that would only be bullheadedly
Dell Visor WMR, Ryzen 5 3600 (6C/12T), RX 580 8GB  - "5 years clean, came back because hornet" - a long-time DCS player on Discord - "How is the payment?" - forum user question about Razbam Dev group membership xD
PvP: 125+ hours AV-8B VTOL (denying low-to-medium airspace since 2020), JF-17 AKG-A2A, F-16C, F-14 pilot - PvP campaigns since 2013

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3 hours ago, Shadow KT said:

🤦‍♂️

🤦‍♂️

DCS Wishlist: Stinger fix (frustrating bug since 1+ year already...), TOR SAM selfdestruct-logic (revert to previous far more realistic behaviour. Since 6+ months already)

canopy 6DOF tracking-limit (deny head-through-canopy), 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM

 basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a DCS pilot claims about another famous DCS pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence - that would only be bullheadedly
Dell Visor WMR, Ryzen 5 3600 (6C/12T), RX 580 8GB  - "5 years clean, came back because hornet" - a long-time DCS player on Discord - "How is the payment?" - forum user question about Razbam Dev group membership xD
PvP: 125+ hours AV-8B VTOL (denying low-to-medium airspace since 2020), JF-17 AKG-A2A, F-16C, F-14 pilot - PvP campaigns since 2013

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