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very undynamic unrealistic missile turns in early stages of A2A radar-missiles launch


D4n

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As you can see in both videos (and .trks, tacviews), the missiles make very undymanic unrealistic turns in the beginning (notice my rapid mouse-movement to highlight those moments).

Also affects multiplayer, it is noticable to targeted players when they see a jet launching such a missile at them and the missile making these unrealistic turns (note that air is compressible, so it should be a lot more fluent moves, so only for example torpedos could be able to make such rapid turns as water is not compressible)

And yes, SD-10 is using ED missile guidance-scheme: [https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/256309-sd-10-sms-target-size-determines-active-seeker-on-distance/?tab=comments#comment-4516156]

(non thrust-vectoring) Heater missiles might also be affected, needs further testing.

 

 

 

Tacview-SD-10-DCS.zip.acmi Tacview-120B-DCS.zip.acmi AIM-120B-undynamicTurns.trk SD-10undynamicTurns.trk


Edited by DanielNL
DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

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56 minutes ago, nighthawk2174 said:

I'm what exactly are you talking about?

Did you check the videos, y or n?

 

grafik.png


Edited by DanielNL
DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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grafik.png

 

Obviously the missile turns should be more fluent, that would automatically make them more realistic. omg

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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41 minutes ago, DanielNL said:

grafik.png

 

Obviously the missile turns should be more fluent, that would automatically make them more realistic. omg

Did you measure the actual turn rate or are you going off what feels "correct" to you?

  • Like 1

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22 minutes ago, VFA41_Lion said:

This looks more like network lag causing a rubberbanding or bouncing missile than actual missile launch animations.

from my sentence "Also affects multiplayer, ..." it should be clear that the provided videos and trackfiles are all from singleplayer... so no network lag possible.

 

11 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

Did you measure the actual turn rate or are you going off what feels "correct" to you?

everyone with half-way good eyes can see that the specified (highlighted) moments, the missile makes 2-4 totally undynamic edgy turns... please watch again if you were not able to notice

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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1 hour ago, DanielNL said:

Obviously the missile turns should be more fluent, that would automatically make them more realistic. omg

 

What do you mean more fluent?   The missile spawns, which might cause 'jerking' right at that moment in tacview, then it performs its safety maneuver (correctly or not) and then continues on with PN which will take a certain amount of lead that depends on the target closure (so the lead may be exaggerated at first, though this doesn't seem to be what you're showing).

 

Anyway the behavior is fine, not sure what kind of problem it's causing you right now.  There are much bigger fish to fry with missiles.

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27 minutes ago, DanielNL said:

everyone with half-way good eyes can see that the specified (highlighted) moments, the missile makes 2-4 totally undynamic edgy turns... please watch again if you were not able to notice

watched it, see nothing wrong. Has nothing to do with having "half good eyes" The question is, what is your rational, evidence based reason its incorrect? The fact that it looks/feels undynamic to you is irrelevant. Still waiting on some actual evidence that the missiles are turning too quickly.

  • Like 1

Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when?

HP Z400 Workstation

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In fact, I decided to download the tacview and see what the turn rate was. The maximum turn rate the missile reached was 12°/sec, and a max G of 8.4. This is well under its maximum G/turn rate capability at that speed. So again, nothing is factually wrong, unless you have evidence that a 12°/s turn rate at M1.2 is somehow too high

 

16 minutes ago, razo+r said:

Perhaps OP is refering to the point (see picture) when the missile stops turning and gains speed that create this corner in the path?

 

image.png

No thats not what he's referencing, at least its not whats being shown in the tacviews. He is referring to the initial turn after the saftey manuever


Edited by dundun92

Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when?

HP Z400 Workstation

Intel Xeon W3680 (i7-980X) OC'd to 4.0 GHz, EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SSC Gaming, 24 GB DDR3 RAM, 500GB Crucial MX500 SSD. Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS, DIY opentrack head-tracking. I upload DCS videos here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-7L3Z5nJ-QUX5M7Dh1pGg

 

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Is the OP referring to the missiles rolling level after launch?  (At least that's when his mouse movements are the most spastic)  My understanding is that is the cruciform fins correcting for the extreme bank angle on launch, there's nothing wrong with that.  And does he mean "Fluid?"  I don't see how the missiles ability to speak clearly factors into this.  Also, these are missiles designed to pull extreme g-forces in order to catch targets, if anything, the movements in these videos look too fluid.


Edited by 9thHunt
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There is no acceleration in the changing motions of the missile shortly after launch. They appear to "bounce" off of something like a ball bounces off a wall... that's the thing... but the missiles are not hitting any wall, only the missiles' control-surfaces are moving and thereby the force of the air pushes on these surfaces and gradually (not instantly! An accellerating movement!) turn the missile into the new direction, especially gradually because these missiles have a big mass so shortly after launch, and the law of inertia applies here aswell (and lift-induced drag)


Edited by DanielNL
DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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3 hours ago, Shadow KT said:

🤦‍♂️

🤦‍♂️

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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