SNAFU Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I could not find any report so I post this here: Is this intended behavior? Is t [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Unsere Facebook-Seite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
near_blind Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 The AIM-54 shouldn't receive any guidance in PSTT, its active off the rail. It looks like your missile was notched when the target went vertical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAFU Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) As you see in the TacView, I shot the missile at a beaming target. It was basically notched, when it left the rail. Quote 1. TWS with range >10NM: LTE (launch to eject) 3s, loft, SARH/DL, missile goes active at 16 seconds TTI (time-to-impact) 2. PDSTT with range >10NM: LTE 3s, loft, SARH/DL, missile does not go active (SARH/DL all the way to target) 3. TWS or PDSTT with range <10NM, or PH ACT selected: LTE 3s, no loft, active directly after launch 4. PSTT or BRSIT or (ACM cover up with no track or PSTT or PDSTT): LTE 1s (unless STT and angle >15deg then 3s), no loft, active immediately I read this, but couldn´t believe this is also valid for targets shat at with PSTT at 40nm. I understood point 4 ACM Mode related shots. In But if this is intended, PSTT is pointles at any moving target over 10nm it seems. If this was the design of the AWG9 fine. Makes it quite hard to hit anyting, which is not totally clueless. PS: Actually I never had this situation before that I tried to shoot a beaming target which is just flying straight. So far the targets always went hot at some point and just notched to defeat the shot, so it was not that obvious I guess. Edited December 30, 2020 by SNAFU [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Unsere Facebook-Seite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
near_blind Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, SNAFU said: I read this, but couldn´t believe this is also valid for targets shat at with PSTT at 40nm. But if this is intended, PSTT is pointles at any moving target over 10nm it seems. If this was the design of the AWG9 fine. Makes it quite hard to hit anyting, which is not totally clueless. You're not meant to take long range shots with the AIM-54 in pulse. Pulse and the AIM-54 aren't compatible beyond simple sensor slaving, and only really intended as a last ditch emergency option when a target appears at close range. The way the AWG-9 talks to the AIM-54 while in flight requires certain features only available in the PD modes of operation. Any Phoenix shot beyond the range of the missile seeker is intended to be guided via TWS or PD-STT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAFU Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) Ok, that explains my misunderstanding. I thought it would act the same in PSTT as in PDSTT, just without the lofting. Thats a pitty, would love to have SARH mode in PSTT. Edited December 30, 2020 by SNAFU [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Unsere Facebook-Seite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrovague Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Near_blind is spot-on, in P-STT the missile seeker is only slaved to the radar angles but the missile is active off the rails, and not supported by the F-14 radar further at all. One minor note is that the list of phoenix/radar launch conditions is now slightly different, following the recent TGTS size addition. The 10NM everywhere is replaced with 6,10,13 (for TGTS size set to small, normal and large respectively), and the TTI is no longer relevant, it uses that same distance metric. Let x be the range as determined by TGTS size switch, then: - TWS with range >x: LTE (launch to eject) 3s, loft if necessary, SARH/DL, missile goes active at range x from target - PDSTT with range >x: LTE 3s, loft if necessary, SARH/DL, missile does not go active (SARH/DL all the way to target) - TWS or PDSTT with range <x, or PH ACT selected: LTE 3s, no loft, active directly after launch - PSTT or BRSIT or (ACM cover up with no track or PSTT or PDSTT): LTE 1s (unless STT and angle >15deg then 3s), no loft, active immediately 2 2 ____________ Heatblur Simulations [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAFU Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 Thanks for clarifivation guys. TWS seems to have been improved significantly now, so my PSTT only approach seems obsolet anyhow. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Unsere Facebook-Seite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 On 12/30/2020 at 8:33 PM, gyrovague said: Near_blind is spot-on, in P-STT the missile seeker is only slaved to the radar angles but the missile is active off the rails, and not supported by the F-14 radar further at all. One minor note is that the list of phoenix/radar launch conditions is now slightly different, following the recent TGTS size addition. The 10NM everywhere is replaced with 6,10,13 (for TGTS size set to small, normal and large respectively), and the TTI is no longer relevant, it uses that same distance metric. Let x be the range as determined by TGTS size switch, then: - TWS with range >x: LTE (launch to eject) 3s, loft if necessary, SARH/DL, missile goes active at range x from target - PDSTT with range >x: LTE 3s, loft if necessary, SARH/DL, missile does not go active (SARH/DL all the way to target) - TWS or PDSTT with range <x, or PH ACT selected: LTE 3s, no loft, active directly after launch - PSTT or BRSIT or (ACM cover up with no track or PSTT or PDSTT): LTE 1s (unless STT and angle >15deg then 3s), no loft, active immediately Can the 54 be slaved to to a TCS lock? Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrovague Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 5 hours ago, captain_dalan said: Can the 54 be slaved to to a TCS lock? Yes, IIRC it will use TCS lock (if it exists) if there is no radar STT lock, but it will essentially just pass the initial angles to the missile and set it to active immediately. 1 ____________ Heatblur Simulations [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 hours ago, gyrovague said: Yes, IIRC it will use TCS lock (if it exists) if there is no radar STT lock, but it will essentially just pass the initial angles to the missile and set it to active immediately. Nice, something worth experimenting with! Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Just had my first kill with the TCS lock slaving the AIM-54! An awesome feature, thanks for implementing it! Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ustio Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 14 hours ago, captain_dalan said: Just had my first kill with the TCS lock slaving the AIM-54! An awesome feature, thanks for implementing it! Do you do this with ACM cover open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) On 1/3/2021 at 8:38 PM, ustio said: Do you do this with ACM cover open? Haven't tried that yet! Edited January 5, 2021 by captain_dalan Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ustio Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 19 hours ago, captain_dalan said: Haven't tried that yet! Sorry to ask. But did you manually lock TCS from the rio seat and then fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 On 1/6/2021 at 6:40 PM, ustio said: Sorry to ask. But did you manually lock TCS from the rio seat and then fire? Nope, i had an STT lock which slaved the camera to the radar, then told Jester to break the lock. The radar lock was gone, but the camera lock remained. Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ustio Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 17 hours ago, captain_dalan said: Nope, i had an STT lock which slaved the camera to the radar, then told Jester to break the lock. The radar lock was gone, but the camera lock remained. Are you sure you are not on TWS? Because if you break a lock it will revert to TWS with the radar pointing at him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 21 hours ago, ustio said: Are you sure you are not on TWS? Because if you break a lock it will revert to TWS with the radar pointing at him Nope, too close for TWS to even acquire a lock of any relevance, and the the camera is tracking. Have you tried flipping the ACM switch? Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ustio Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) It works wuth ACM open. It didn't work with ACM close for me unless its on TWS even below 10 Edited January 13, 2021 by ustio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 On 1/13/2021 at 12:03 PM, ustio said: It works wuth ACM open. It didn't work with ACM close for me unless its on TWS even below 10 Good to know. Maybe we should consult the HB team on this. Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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