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Su-57: Russian Stealth Strike Fighter


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Great video from RT. Full of relevant information including some juicy details comparing it to USA's fifth generation stealth aircraft. Hope you enjoy the video and feel free to discuss down below about Russia's new fifth generation fighter, which is now in service.

 

 

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RT's videos provide good footage. They are completely irrelevant for technical detail, though. On the Su-35 video they talked about navigation lights like it was cutting edge technology that allowed night flying in ways that haven't been done by literally EVERYONE FOR THE LAST HUNDRED AND TWENTY YEARS.

 

Also saying it's in service is a stretch. There are I believe 12 of them, only a few of which are combat capable, and I don't think all 12 even have full avionics. It's also been rejected by every country it was offered to, apparently including the Indians that were originally supposed to help pay for it (who backed out after the Russians tried to screw them into paying for more than was agreed upon).

 

Su-57 : The fighter jet so stealthy it can't be detected by radar, eyes, hands, or any other sensory organ!

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4 hours ago, zhukov032186 said:

RT's videos provide good footage. They are completely irrelevant for technical detail, though. On the Su-35 video they talked about navigation lights like it was cutting edge technology that allowed night flying in ways that haven't been done by literally EVERYONE FOR THE LAST HUNDRED AND TWENTY YEARS.

 

Also saying it's in service is a stretch. There are I believe 12 of them, only a few of which are combat capable, and I don't think all 12 even have full avionics. It's also been rejected by every country it was offered to, apparently including the Indians that were originally supposed to help pay for it (who backed out after the Russians tried to screw them into paying for more than was agreed upon).

 

Su-57 : The fighter jet so stealthy it can't be detected by radar, eyes, hands, or any other sensory organ!

Yep, 10 test and 2 LRIP as of end of 2020. I wouldn’t class it as being in service until there is at least 40 - 60 airframes, and that’s going to likely be around 2023 - 2025?

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3 hours ago, garyscott said:

Yep, 10 test and 2 LRIP as of end of 2020. I wouldn’t class it as being in service until there is at least 40 - 60 airframes, and that’s going to likely be around 2023 - 2025?

So in service for you means "more then a few dozens"?  And 39 planes isn't in service? Or 29? I suppose that B-2 isn't in service in the USA according to your logics. Or MiG-29s aren't in service in slovakia as there are only like 10 of them. 

First (which is actually second) Su-57 entered service a few days ago. This statement should be read as written, without the use of any imagination and fantasy.

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8 hours ago, zhukov032186 said:

Also saying it's in service is a stretch. There are I believe 12 of them, only a few of which are combat capable, and I don't think all 12 even have full avionics.

Probably because prorotypes aren't usually ment to be used in combat. There are 3 planes that have "full avionics" as you say. 2 of them are the last two prototypes and one - the first serial Su-57 that entered service into the russian armed forces.

8 hours ago, zhukov032186 said:

It's also been rejected by every country it was offered to, apparently including the Indians that were originally supposed to help pay for it (who backed out after the Russians tried to screw them into paying for more than was agreed upon).

Your lack of knowledge makes you an easy target for western brainwashing maschine. FGFA, while based on Su-57, is not PAK FA. And, as Russia repetedetely declined to allow india a greater involvement into the development of the project as well as refused to share technologies as much as indians wanted, they, indians, left the project traditionally for them claiming that it's not they who are a source of problems, but russian plane is bad. Furthermore, could you name any countries who officially refused to buy Su-57?

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Doesn't look like they'll be rushing into the front lines.

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.com/2020/08/komsomolsk-on-amur-aviation-plant-plan.html

 

76 planned for delivery by 2028.  So third parties look like having a reasonably long wait time.

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@TotenDead

Yeah, I know they're prototypes. That's the whole point. Nobody wants to buy it, the Russians can't afford it and they tried to give the same speel as for why they didn't buy the T-14 : ''Oh, well, our existing stuff is good enough, so why bother?'' Suuuure they spent billions of dollars designing it unnecessarily.

 

Instead of offering a list of countries that opted not to buy, can you offer even one country that DOES want to buy it? Yeaaaah, didn't think so.

 

For all intents and purposes it's a dead end. That's not ''western propoganda'' that's just a fact. It's not ''in service'' if all they have is a dozen prototypes which are largely incapable of doing anything, and one so called ''production'' plane that exists solely by itself. When they manage to equip at least one squadron in 5 years or so, then it can be ''in service''.

 

-edit

I just looked and sounds like the FGFA is also a paper project. ''Pending wider adoption by the Russian military'' ie ''never''.

 

There are three times as many Ka-50s as there are Su-57s if you count the prototypes. It's like... 30x as many if you only count production machines. Everybody considers the Ka-50 in DCS a ''fantasy'' helicopter, yet it's still more ''real'' than the Su-57 by like... an astronomical unit.

 

@Mr_sukebe

Yeah, but the problem is those numbers are constantly revised downward and the date pushed out, just like with the T-14. First it was like ''2500'' then ''1500'' then ''500'' then ''We've chosen to upgrade our existing machines''.

 

No slight against the Su-57 or T-14 either one, by all accounts they're capable machines... they just don't really ''exist'' in any significant capacity.


Edited by zhukov032186
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27 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Doesn't look like they'll be rushing into the front lines.

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.com/2020/08/komsomolsk-on-amur-aviation-plant-plan.html

 

76 planned for delivery by 2028.  So third parties look like having a reasonably long wait time.

Production lines take time to reach its full production capabilities. By the end of 2024 there'll be 22 Su-57s and still that won't be the peak of production. The deliveries are likely to be like 2020 - 1; 2021 - 2; 2022 - 4; 2023 - 6; 2024 - 9

https://rg.ru/2020/12/21/shojgu-rasskazal-ob-etapah-postavki-su-57-v-vks-rossii.html

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11 minutes ago, zhukov032186 said:

@TotenDead

Yeah, I know they're prototypes. That's the whole point. Nobody wants to buy it, the Russians can't afford it

That's why 75 more aircraft are entering service in the next 7-8 years 

11 minutes ago, zhukov032186 said:

 

Instead of offering a list of countries that opted not to buy, can you offer even one country that DOES want to buy it? Yeaaaah, didn't think so.

 

We're not playing UNO, stop FLAKing around. I'm still waiting for the list of countries.

 

11 minutes ago, zhukov032186 said:

 

That's not ''western propoganda'' that's just a fact. It's not ''in service'' if all they have is a dozen prototypes which are largely incapable of doing anything, and one so called ''production'' plane that exists solely by itself. When they manage to equip at least one squadron in 5 years or so, then it can be ''in service''.

 

So slovikian MiG-29s aren't in service. I got ya. Welp, your reaction was expected. In 2010 your kind of people said that russia wasn't capable of making a fifth gen fighter, then they said that pak fa won't get beyond 1-2 prototypes, then they said that that when india left FGFA the program would be closed, then they said that there won't be any contracts as russia can't afford buying SU-57s. Now, when second serial plane is built you're saying that the contract won't be finished. Too many things are against you, especially taking into consideration that for the last 12 years fighters were delivered right on scedules of their contarcts.

 

11 minutes ago, zhukov032186 said:

@Mr_sukebe

Yeah, but the problem is those numbers are constantly revised downward and the date pushed out, just like with the T-14. First it was like ''2500'' then ''1500'' then ''500'' then ''We've chosen to upgrade our existing machines''.

Those weren't contracts, just claims.

11 minutes ago, zhukov032186 said:

No slight against the Su-57 or T-14 either one, by all accounts they're capable machines... they just don't really ''exist'' in any significant capacity.

Yeah. Just like Su-35S in 2008

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Well, after reading all the posting in this thread I hope the Su-57 does do well despite its adoption problems that some of you have stated. It seems that with most fifth generation fighters the Su-57 is very expensive and slow to produce. The F-35 was the same way when it was introduced. So many people hated on the F-35 and look at it now, its successful. 

 

I think the Su-57 is an exception aircraft based on the limited knowledge I know about it. I think the modern Sukhois are the sexiest aircraft on the planet and very combat effective as well.

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Well, it certainly is pretty, and it certainly is capable, but right now, it seems to be going the way of the F-22. Good performance, but slow to make and too expensive for its own good. F-35 is successful because it is nowhere near as ambitious as either of those (despite the fancy glass cockpit, which I think sacrifices a bit too much tactile feedback).

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Well, F-35 benefits from rapidly aging, overworked aircraft effectively assuring SOMETHING needs to get built. The F-22 was entering service during the end of Cold War and a big drawdown. Now, most folks realise that was a mistake.  It also helps it's being widey adopted. I don't know offhand how many people are lining up to get it, but a lot, I mean it saw its first combat in Israeli hands even. That somewhere between 2-3,000 of them are expected to be built drives the relative cost waaaaaay down. That expensive research program isn't so bad now.

 

The Su-57's biggest issue is Russia can't afford to build it in subtantial numbers by itself and most the folks they would normally sell to either can't maintain a fifth gen fighter or, in the case of those that can, have opted to design their own. So right there, it's virtually guaranteed to have a skyhigh unit cost and low production numbers as a result. Basically, their export market has largely been weened from dependency on them, so now they gotta foot the bill themselves. Add in political consequences and suspicion resulting from their aggressive behavior... tis a hard sell.


Edited by zhukov032186
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@zhukov032186 One wouldn't think that Russia, a global superpower and arms dealer, would be short on defense cash. I find it surprising that Russia can't fund the project further due to just funding issues. In the Eastern World, Russia is the number one power, funding less powerful nations such as NK, China, Vietnam, etc. Sure some of these countries, NK and China for example, can produce their own goods but its widely based on Russian technology.

 

Anyways, I think Russia won't have a problem producing the Su-57 in the far future. Its just going to be a slow crawl to get there.

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No money for Su-57, no money at all

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/20201230034-5QaKY.html

 

Google translate:

 

Quote

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is working on the issue of increasing purchases for the Aerospace Forces (VKS) of fifth-generation Su-57 fighters. This was told by the deputy head of the department Alexey Krivoruchko.

The first serial contract for the supply of 76 Su-57 aircraft to the troops was signed at the Army forum last summer. The first vehicle under this contract was recently transferred to the Russian Armed Forces.

"We are already working on measures to further increase the purchase of Su-57 aircraft, the results of which will be taken into account in the new state armament program," Krivoruchko said.

 

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RT's videos provide good footage. They are completely irrelevant for technical detail, though. On the Su-35 video they talked about navigation lights like it was cutting edge technology that allowed night flying in ways that haven't been done by literally EVERYONE FOR THE LAST HUNDRED AND TWENTY YEARS.

 

Have you ever flown DCS Hornet or the KA50 or any of the other aircraft? Navigation at night and in bad weather is not as easy as it sounds. You get a hint of how difficult it is with DCS Hornet using ILS and TACAN. It has never been easy flying CATIII and no 120 years night flying, it is not like in the movies, no one flew at night World Wide until ILS, VOR and DME navigation. Anyone who did fly at night was literally flying blind all of the time. And that was 1960's on wards for the Soviet Union it was not until the 1970's until it was safe to fly CATIII. Although even now it is still not as good as it could be, on the horizon new technology means that aircraft will fly safer and land automatically from some of my patents. Evidence is the DRONE FORMATIONS as that uses the new technology which also is a new way of getting altitude, heading, AoA and airspeed data.(way more precise)

 

 

 

 

You see this DRONE FORMATION uses that technology and they are at 20 000 meters. Imagine that in a 747 or a Hornet. It can take off, fly and land automatically. And there is just one other extra thing that is awesome about it. It compensates for turbulence so airliners will become smoother flights with this technology.

[sIGPIC]2011subsRADM.jpg

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None of that has anything to do with navigation lights. You know, the little lights on the wingtips and sometimes scattered on the fuselage? They don't revolutionise night flying and they aren't new.

 

As for ''night flying'' they've been ''flying at night'' literally since they started flying, or are you going to regurgitate some gibberish about the nightfighters equipped with radar not happening back in the 40s, along with the British nighttime bombing campaign over Germany? I don't know about specific instances prior to WWII, but they've been flying at night in combat for at least the last 80 years, and flying in general longer than that.

 

In fact, you don't need all that bs radio equipment and GPS you're babbling about. All you need to do is fly above the highest obstacle in your vicinity, which will be shown on any flight chart. But that's all that got to do with the real world, and I know you and her aren't exactly on speaking terms @@

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Damn, so I guess all these nightfighters and bombingraids in the night never happened then and all the equipment for night navigation and landing they had on board were just boxes that looked nice.

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Radio navigation is way older than TACAN. In fact, it's older than aviation itself. The first radio direction finders were mounted on ships, and this method is still in widespread use. As long as both airfields are properly illuminated and there's no fog, you can fly beacon to beacon at any time of day (if there's fog, you can still fly, but landing gets complicated). In fact, in many countries on a clear night you can fly VFR, in an aircraft that's not IFR-certified. So no, even at the most low-tech, you're not flying blind at night (unless you haven't been drinking enough milk).


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12 minutes ago, zhukov032186 said:

Carrots. Carrots are good for your eyes. My mom used to tell me it would give me Xray vision. I'm beginning to think she lied, though.

 

Sorry @zhukov032186, it sure sounds like she did, albeit unintentionally:  Propaganda hard at work, even after all these years...

 

Regarding whether or not the Su-57 can be considered 'in service' idk how Russia does it but in US programs they usually specify a certain quantity of production units required to declare IOC, at which point the jet is considered 'in service.'  Does anyone know if such a number exists for the Su-57?  

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Damn, so I guess all these nightfighters and bombingraids in the night never happened then and all the equipment for night navigation and landing they had on board were just boxes that looked nice.

 

Well you jump on DCS Spitfire fly at night and shoot some aircraft down. It was extremely difficult back then. Try it in the F86 and see how that goes. The point is that there is new technology coming for aircraft which includes AUTOLAND and is extremely simple to use. CATIII has never been as simple as this. 

[sIGPIC]2011subsRADM.jpg

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