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[FUTURE IMPLEMENTATION] TGP Pod Incorrect


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The targeting pod cannot be used to give talk on in relation to ground features and forces as the MFD North rose compass does not match to north on the image of the TGP but rather the aircraft's nose position.  

 

Not really an issue for SP use and single mission scripting but in detailed and complex MP AO's it becomes a real issue.

 

Needs resolution to those that actually require and use these features.  Also TGP marker to aircraft doesn't seem correct so not sure if this is related to the outlined issue.

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Previously reported. 

 

According to their SME the north arrow orientation is correct (it isn't) and the orientation of the rose in relation to the plane of the ground is marked as a future implementation pending determination of feasibility in-engine (it is, see: A-10).

 

 


Edited by ChickenSim
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Sorry i somehow missed the original post - must be getting to that stage in my life when i need glasses!

 

So just to clarify the SME has stated that the arrow on the rose compass displayed on the MFD is currently correct that the North orientation arrow relates to the aircraft nose and not the North in relation to the ground designation as per IRL?  Now that is hilarious but also a concern, clearly the SME has never worked with the pod or reviewed footage that comes from it.  Some things you forget with time and systems but not that as its used to talk on/quick sense check orientation from the pod to ground forces and more importantly vice versa when looking at what the pilot is seeing and slewing around.

 

Clearly even if the SME had used Rover or equally the Strikehawk system he would be aware of the north alignment arrow.  Razbam need to go back to their SME and check this (and if he still says it's correct then they need to let him go, im sure its more of a bad communication, or Razbam's old approach of we've coded it so it has to be right)!  As i've said before when they start going off on a tangent and stating false truth's late summer their are people on here with experience that will highlight that its incorrect for the benefit of the wider community.   

 

Anyway....moving on its already modelled on other modules in game reference the A10 otherwise i would have notice it, granted not checked it in a while but the ED engine being there doesn't stand. 

 

Rest assured the current depiction of this system is incorrect.


Edited by Hawkeye_UK

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Chicken - after further review as it was bugging me how i missed your post ( always check first so don't double post ) it was not my "old man" eyes but your correct reporting of a current outstanding bug got moved to resolved.

 

I do hope we are not going down that path again where by legitimate issues just get marked into the resolved section, that was one of the things that led up to the events of the summer and the final straw in loosing trust with Razbam.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The functions of the TPOD are changing to the Gen4 standard. So logic and functions will change from the previously implemented Gen2 TPOD. When the base features and modes are implemented then future refinement will occur. Marking as FUTURE IMPLEMENTATION and moving to RESOLVED

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  • RAZBAM_ELMO changed the title to [FUTURE IMPLEMENTATION] TGP Pod Incorrect
  • 2 weeks later...

Elmo, as i raised the subject a month ago i have concerns thing's are being marked as resolved when actually they are not.  This was a historical problem and culture issue with Razbam which lead upto the fracture with the community last summer.  I have been quiet over these last few months on the forums however will be picking things back up again over the next month and will be revisiting the historical issues with the module to check on progress and where we are.

 

I'm going to be frank - marking this as resolved due to "future implementation" and putting it to resolved is a nonsense.  It is basically a cop out for not bottoming out problems and i will be raising the issue with ED.  

 

There is also a few other issues that i have an interest in that i note have had the same outcome in the last month.

 

There has to be some validation for sign off in that the errors are actually being resolved.  We cannot go back to a situation where feedback is given and its just ignored because the developers either cannot resolve or they think the current system is correct.

 

By whatever generation your going off the current model is incorrect - if your SME say's otherwise he's never worked with the pod or its data feed.

 

Can you move this thread back to its rightful place as a bug and outstanding please.

 

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The TPOD compass rose is completely broken.

 

1) It should point to North properly from the point where TPOD is pointing. Not about where aircraft is flying or where the TPOD is looking.

2) It currently shows the compass inverted. The East arrow points to West and vice versa, and it even "tilts" in odd angle than being "flat with the terrain" that is not related to the aircraft or TPOD position.

 

Harrier_TPOD_compass_rose.jpg

 

 

Key points:

 

00:38 turn to left, from heading 180 to 90 (South to East). The compass rose turns to point West. (North points to Right, where South is)

01:46 turn to left, from heading 90 to 00 (East to North). The compass rose turns to point North. The Target Designation (TD) is now 10'clock.

02:21 turn to left, from heading 00 to 270 (North to West). The compass rose turns to point East. (North points to Left, where South is)

03:36 flying to South, switching from TPOD to INS slewing to move TD on the MAP. The compass rose does not react to any TD positions around the aircraft.

04:46 turning to left, from heading 180 to 90. The compass starts turning wrongly again. Continuing slewing TD around the aircraft on EHSD.

05:15 flying toward East, the compass rose starts to skew oddly - indicating that I would now fly to North-West instead East. TD is at 10'clock.

06:50 still flying toward East, the compass rose is twisted - TD is at 1130'clock

07:12 turning to left, from 90 to 00. Compass points to North, TD is 1'clock and rose is completely twisted like West/East would be front/rear of me.

 

Edit: Need to be added that the INS TD slewing is wrong/bugged and is related to this compass direction bug. The TD jumps around randomly in overflies, the INS is locked to TPOD gimbal limits and speeds (instead TPOD following INS TD), the EHSI TD will move randomly around on the map resulting to move the TD around map quickly. So multiple bugs are related to INS problems.

 

----------

 

How can a current broken state be moved by any logic to "RESOLVED" when the bug exist as long it is actually resolved?

The proper bug process goes:

 

1) Someone reports a bug.

2) The bug report is confirmed by someone else (anyone else).

3) The bug report stays OPEN so long until the Original Reporter or anyone else who did confirm it, comes back and says "It is solved".

 

No matter what the patch log says, it is to be kept OPEN as long until it can be confirmed by the users that it is solved. Not by the developers before the patch is actually out and in use by users. The people reporting bugs are as well responsible for reporting back that did the patch change something in the report or not. That is the confirmation for as well to the fix. It is a two-way communication in both situations reporting in and reporting out.

 

Marking bug reports "SOLVED" or "FIXED" before the patch is even out is not the proper way to do things.

 

 


Edited by Fri13
  • Like 4

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On 1/28/2021 at 7:55 AM, Hawkeye_UK said:

I'm going to be frank - marking this as resolved due to "future implementation" and putting it to resolved is a nonsense.  It is basically a cop out for not bottoming out problems and i will be raising the issue with ED.

Can I ask please what the forum rules are / etiquette is regarding getting ED involved? I've attempted to engage with Elmo several times now asking that they take another look at a post that due to a misunderstanding has been marked up as [user error] and moved to resolved, since then and despite several other users reporting the same problem / reaching out for assistance all dialog has completely stopped - I don't want to resort to such actions but detest being ignored like that, it's both rude and unprofessional.

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If someone doesn't understand that what is the problem here. Here is a presentation that what Razbam claims to be proper.

 

Harrier_TPOD_compass_rose.jpg

  • White box = TPOD video presented as on the DDI.
  • Red Compass = Razbam claim.
  • Green Compass = TPOD in other modules.

The A-B-C is what happens right now. The TPOD screen shows the compass rose relative to the aircraft flight direction. UP is same as "Aircraft flies there" and compass rotates so it would give visual indicator for the pilot that what is his aircraft heading, regardless where the TPOD is pointing (A-B-C directions).

 

What should happen is the D-E-F where the compass rose is constantly rotated as Aircraft compass / INS tells where the North is located. It should as well stay "flat on ground" so if you fly at low altitude, then you will see it as flat. This to signal the pilot point of view altitude. 

This compass rose purpose is to tell pilot the coordinates from the point of view that is observed. So if someone says on radio "North from the target" that is being observed then it is quick to look at the compass rose and see that in which direction the North is.

The compass rose will constantly point to North from the center point of the TPOD view, so if pilot slew TPOD around him, then the compass will rotate.

 

The another bug in the TPOD compass rose is that it will invert directions.

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Thats a really good represtation @Fri13 and explains why I couldn't get my direction correct when running in on a bomb run. One of the missions that Baltic Dragon released for the excellent mini-campaign has you taking directions from a JTAC who wants you to run in from a specific compass heading, if you follow the targeting pods directional arrows you get told off for getting it wrong - how ironic that their own products highlight the error.

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8 hours ago, Dr Zaius said:

.....has you taking directions from a JTAC who wants you to run in from a specific compass heading, if you follow the targeting pods directional arrows you get told off for getting it wrong....

 

I do not get how someone can even come up with idea that their implementation is correct. Like, there is no reasons to have that compass rose in the Litening video when your HUD compass tape or EHSD shows you far more accurately and faster that where you are flying and from what direction you need to attack etc. It takes now time to convert those values to what you see on TPOD. Like look at the EHSD and you see where TD is, and where is the North related to it and then work it out in mind to transfer the needed movements to TPOD or INS.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yet so when something is implemented and their is a bug , its not a bug, its to be future implemented.  

 

Oh Dear.  Painful.

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

DCS | F14B | AV-8B | F18C | F16C | A10C | JF17 | Viggen | L-39 | MIG 15 | SU27 | SU33 | F15 | MI8 | Huey | KA50 | Gazelle | P47 | Spitfire | CA | Persian Gulf | Nevada | Normandy | Channel | Syria

 

Liquid Cooled i7 9700K @ 5Ghz & OC RTX2080 Ti Ultra | 64GB DDR4 3200 MHz | 500GB SSD m2 | Oculus Rift S | TM Warthog | Virpil T50/Warbrd Base | Cougar MFD | Saitek Side Panel | Steel Series Arctis 7 Heaphones

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