VirPil helicopter collective controls

[AKA_Clutter]

31 minutes ago, Munkwolf said:

 

did you map the twist to throttle? is it inverted? is another device mapped to throttle? fyi hind grip rotates opposite from huey. twist out for max throttle in huey, twist in for hind.

Yes, I mapped to the throttle. set up as slider, and verified it moves in the correct direction.  The one mission I tried is a hot start on the ground (Syria I think).  in that I have the Virpil Throttle all the way to max.  Shortly after unpausing the game, you here theengines start spinning down and then she announces generator failures.

 

I did try another "free flight mission and it worked fine in that as well as in auto cold starts.

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by AKA_Clutter

[MAXsenna]

Yes, I mapped to the throttle. set up as slider, and verified it moves in the correct direction.  The one mission I tried is a hot start on the ground (Syria I think).  in that I have the Virpil Throttle all the way to max.  Shortly after unpausing the game, you here theengines start spinning down and then she announces generator failures.
 
I did try another "free flight mission and it worked fine in that as well as in auto cold starts.
 

Right. I thought so. Have you checked "sync with HOTAS" in the settings?
You might try this. Quickly twist the throttle a little to see if it helps. And like I wrote, if you open the controls indicator, RCtrl+Enter, you can see the all the positions of the axis (you probably know this already). In the Mi-8, the small horizontal magenta bar, reflects your throttle position, the Hind lacks this though. If it is at the bottom, it means that your throttle is turned down all the way. If it jumps up when you twist a little, then that's the issue.
Hope this helps!
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[AKA_Clutter]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Right. I thought so. Have you checked "sync with HOTAS" in the settings?
You might try this. Quickly twist the throttle a little to see if it helps. And like I wrote, if you open the controls indicator, RCtrl+Enter, you can see the all the positions of the axis (you probably know this already). In the Mi-8, the small horizontal magenta bar, reflects your throttle position, the Hind lacks this though. If it is at the bottom, it means that your throttle is turned down all the way. If it jumps up when you twist a little, then that's the issue.
Hope this helps!
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

I'll give that a shot.

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by AKA_Clutter

[AKA_Clutter]

All,

 

I just installed my Virpil Rotor TCS Plus Base with the Sharka-50 grip.  I notice that it has abut 1 inch of free paly.  That being I can move the end of collective about a inch before I feel any resistance or movement of the collective.  this is not the resistance of moving the collective itself.  

 

Is that normal?  Is there e a way to adjust that.  Could that be induced by the setup?

 

UPDATE:  I think I have this fixed.  The screw assembly connecting the base to the Chair attachment piece was not tightened down all the way.  I gave it a little extra elbow grease and it seems fine now

Edited August 26, 2021 by AKA_Clutter

[Razorback]

15 hours ago, AKA_Clutter said:

OK, got mine in yesterday and now have it installed to the chair and setup in the Virpil software.  DCS does see it.

 

I have only tried to test a few times and am missing something.  I have the TCS Rotor Plus base with the Sharka 50 head.

 

I have tried in the Mi-8MTV2.  

 

With hot starts, the engines die just after unpausing the game.  If I do a cold start every thing seems to work fine.

 

Do I need to do something with the idle.  Thanks.

 

It's a current bugg on DCS and it was already reported.

Same issue with the Mi-24P. Try with the Ka-50 and you will see that all is fine.

So, it's not an issue connected with your Virpil collective....

Edited August 26, 2021 by Razorback

[AKA_Clutter]

Razorback,

 

Thanks for the information.

[Jazz_44]

Do I need to unplug the USB from my Thrustmeter Warthog throttle prior for using the Virpil collective? Does DCS recognize them separately or they will interfere when flying Jets / Helicopters?

 

Thanks,

[AKA_Clutter]

6 hours ago, Jazz_44 said:

Do I need to unplug the USB from my Thrustmeter Warthog throttle prior for using the Virpil collective? Does DCS recognize them separately or they will interfere when flying Jets / Helicopters?

 

Thanks,

DCS recognizes the tow seperately.  I use TARGET so my Warthog HOTAS shows up as one controller.  The Virpil Collective shows as a separate controller.  You will need to go into the control setup and clear the Collective axis from the TM throttle and then set map the Virpil X axis to the collective.  For the jets , you will most likely need to clear the Virpil collective at least the Joy_X and Joy_Y axis so that there isn't any conflict.

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by AKA_Clutter

[AKA_Clutter]

I have the Rotor TCS Plus base and the SharKa-50 head.

 

When setting up the collective axis, I map it as Joy_X.  When I go into Axis tune, it shows a Joy_Z and a Joy_X.  

 

Anyone know what the Joy_Z is?

[AKA_Clutter]

I have used the Virpil Rotor TCS Plus Collective with the SharKa-50 control head for about 4 - 5 hours of flight time.  Below are my opinions at this time.

 

Summary - Am I glad I got it? Overall, yes, simply because I fly helicopters a lot (always have) and with the Kiowa and Longbow due out sometime in the future, even more so.  Is it a game changer?  Not really.  It is a “throttle” after all.  It is more realistic for helicopters and may allow for finer control since it does have a longer control range.  The twist throttle is not used much for the helicopters in DCS.  I do have the Fly Inside’s Bell 47G2 for MS FS 2020 that should make use of it.

 

A little more detail ... ...

The build quality seems very good.  Solid with the rotor base being all metal (except for the twist handle. 

 

I got the Universal chair mount ant it turned out not to fit my chair because the standoffs were too short.  My fault for not checking complete before I ordered.  I probably would have gotten anyway because the chair I have now is 18+ years old.

 

Therefore, I used the mount that comes with it. This mounts to the side of my chair where the left arm rest is, or was.  That points the center point about even with my hip when I set all the way back in the chair.  That makes the reach a little long for me and my arm length.  Workable but not ideal.  I may try and work up a way to move the mounting point about 5 inches back.

 

I have not done any adjustments to the base, it’s throw, or the friction associated with t the movement of the collective.  Overall, it is smooth and easy to adjust the position.  It does seem to have some stiction when moving up or down from a set position.  I will mention that I have read two reports where the tension needed to be readjusted (re-tightened) after a few hours of use.  I haven’t experienced that yet, but I only have about 5 hours of use.
              (See thread   

)

 

The overall control range seems good to me with the smallest of three supplied cams.  I will probably try the middle one, just to see how it feels.

 

The SharKa-50 head is some type of ABS like plastic.  It has a solid non-cheap feel to it.  The flip switches seem OK, but a few are very sticky on the down stroke.  Hopefully this will get a little less noticeable with use.  I have seen where several ordered the Alpha controller (left handed) and that might be a better choice as it gives you more buttons and switches to play with.  Time will tell if I think the SharKa-50 will be sufficient.  I still have the TM Warthog throttle setting right next to the Collective, but in VR it is a little cumbersome to switch.

 

The biggest think for me will be relearning to fly the helicopters and resetting my mussel memory.  The way I had my TM Warthog throttle setup to fly helicopters was the same as jets.  Push forward to increase power/collective, pull back to decrease power/collective.  Well, that is BACKWARDS from a real collective.  With that and the change in control range, I will need several flight hours just to start and retrain my mind and mussels.

 

Finally, would I get it knowing what I know now.  Yes as 1) I like to fly helicopters, 2) I fly them a lot ((have had the Ka-50 since first released in 2008), and 3) I like the immersion that it adds.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by AKA_Clutter
Add reference to another thread.

[Munkwolf]

Nice write up @AKA_Clutter

 

My experience has been similar, only differences being I've had a bit more time with it (into the dozens of hours with it so far), and I didnt have my WH throttle reversed

 

I adjusted the friction when I set it up, but haven't had to touch it since. Just enough friction so it sticks if I move the lever up a bit, instead of falling back down.

 

Tried all 3 cams for about an hour each, ended up using the middle (40deg) cam.

 

Also using SharKa grip on it. No regrets there, as I really like flying the Shark with it and having the controls line up.. but I could see myself getting a LH Alpha grip for it at some point for more options.

[jalfrezi]

On 8/31/2021 at 8:11 PM, Munkwolf said:

Nice write up @AKA_Clutter

 

My experience has been similar, only differences being I've had a bit more time with it (into the dozens of hours with it so far), and I didnt have my WH throttle reversed

 

I adjusted the friction when I set it up, but haven't had to touch it since. Just enough friction so it sticks if I move the lever up a bit, instead of falling back down.

 

Tried all 3 cams for about an hour each, ended up using the middle (40deg) cam.

 

Also using SharKa grip on it. No regrets there, as I really like flying the Shark with it and having the controls line up.. but I could see myself getting a LH Alpha grip for it at some point for more options.

 

Pretty much exactly the same experience, I think the 40deg cam range helps with control, particularly with the little bit of stiction you sometimes get.

[98abaile]

My biggest gripe with the Ka50 controller is that it's way too easy to actuate the centre push button when actuating any of the hat directions.

[dburne]

14 minutes ago, 98abaile said:

My biggest gripe with the Ka50 controller is that it's way too easy to actuate the centre push button when actuating any of the hat directions.

 

Yeah there is a button or two on the CM3 throttle the same way, button 5 I believe it is is bad for this. It has an up , down, and press. I am constantly hitting the press when moving in up or down position.

[AKA_Clutter]

For the Ka-50 grip, is there a way to change the key press sensitivity/duration.  I am using the 4-way hat at the bottom for the slew in the Gazelle and so far, it is difficult to do fine adjustments to get it to the target.  It it were analog axis, you could change the "curve".   

 

Any suggestions?

[HC_Official]

On 9/5/2021 at 6:33 PM, AKA_Clutter said:

For the Ka-50 grip, is there a way to change the key press sensitivity/duration.  I am using the 4-way hat at the bottom for the slew in the Gazelle and so far, it is difficult to do fine adjustments to get it to the target.

 

not with the Virpil config software

[ChuckJäger]

Is there a way to mount this without using a chair mount?  I have a wheel stand pro- can I somehow use that?

[crispy12]

25 minutes ago, ChuckJäger said:

Is there a way to mount this without using a chair mount?  I have a wheel stand pro- can I somehow use that?

There are lots of mounting holes so you'd need to figure a way to join in together. The diagrams are on the Virpil website under each product.

[zcaa0g]

While I understand this is not the way hat switches were designed to be used, I never accidentally do an incidental center button press on the Virpil grips or CM3 throttle by just pushing the outside of the hat switch in the direction I want like it is a button instead of a hat switch. 

 

It's intuitive and you get used to it fast.  With that said, I haven't had much trouble using it the traditional way either.

Edited October 9, 2021 by zcaa0g

[AndyPeacock]

A quick question for anyone with a standard TCS base. Can anyone tell me the diameter of the main shaft (the long tube) on the TCS is please? I can't find any measurements or diagrams online.

Thanks, 

Andy

[horstweihrauch]

Ello, I just wanted to share my set up of the collective, which allows me to quickly switch between throttle and Rotary set up.
I can slide the small table with the other controllers outwards and lower the collective when needed.

It’s still not perfect but I should anyhow spent more time flying then building the pit

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by horstweihrauch

[AKA_Clutter]

Nice!

[sirrah]

On 11/17/2021 at 12:18 PM, horstweihrauch said:

Ello, I just wanted to share my set up of the collective, which allows me to quickly switch between throttle and Rotary set up.
I can slide the small table with the other controllers outwards and lower the collective when needed.

It’s still not perfect but I should anyhow spent more time flying then building the pit

 

Looks like on that last picture, your left elbow will bump into the collective when setting throttle to idle/cut-off, or isn't it?

(love the "just use whatever IKEA table is available" kinda setup )

[horstweihrauch]

I think it’s because of the perspective of the photo. With the collective pulled up there is even more clearance.

Haha, yes IKEA table with the shortened legs is from a previous iteration of the ghetto pit with the mounting kit and angles.

Edited November 22, 2021 by horstweihrauch

[desmoflex]

@AKA_Clutter did i get it right, that virpil collective and Warthog Stick+throttle  combo can be programmed with TARGET? Anything special  to consider? Thx for your detailed review of the collective btw.

Desmoflex