VirPil helicopter collective controls

[cordite]

10 hours ago, Thermal said:

…

I just hope the pitch angle of the Alpha grip doesnt require to much stuffing around to make it comfortable.

 

If this hasn’t changed, it should be ok. But please let us know when you try it.

https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/2773-vpc-helicopter-collective/&do=findComment&comment=27743

[crispy12]

My non throttle collective, base, and chair mount have shipped and are now in transit at CDG.

 

Anyone know if the collective mount works with Secret Lab Chair series?

[Thermal]

No-one has their collective yet?  Mine has gone the long way round - EU then the US and is now sitting in Hololulu on its way to AU.

[crispy12]

11 minutes ago, Thermal said:

No-one has their collective yet?  Mine has gone the long way round - EU then the US and is now sitting in Hololulu on its way to AU.

Mine is stuck just few km from my house for last 2 days! Frustrating!

 

Yet to clear customs and FedEx delivery date was scheduled for 6th July so they've put it in their non urgent queue. It have been refreshing my tracking number every hour...

 

I ordered the base, chair mount and non throttle grip.

[cordite]

No control head?

[crispy12]

15 minutes ago, cordite said:

No control head?

VPC Chair Mount - Collective Base Adapter [Pre-Order]

VPC Rotor TCS Base [Back-Order]

VPC SharKa-50 Collective Grip [Pre-Order]

 

This is what I ordered. Is this what you mean?.

Edited June 30, 2021 by crispy12

[Thermal]

Mine has landed and just cleared customs by the looks.  Still saying 8th July, but I'd expect hoping this Friday.

[sirrah]

@crispy, @Thermal; you guys received the goods by now?

 

I'm curious about your experience.  Any early user verdicts?

Edited July 4, 2021 by sirrah

[Thermal]

I did get mine on Friday. 

 

I just put up a "review" on reddit (started as a quick impression, but then I dug into it a bit deeper based on my findings):
https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/odinhc/virpil_collective_and_lh_alpha_impressions/

 

One other guy posted some impressions on reddit/simhq:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/obyttd/virpil_collective_sharka50_grip_chair_mount/

[MAXsenna]

I did get mine on Friday. 
 
I just put up a "review" on reddit (started as a quick impression, but then I dug into it a bit deeper based on my findings):
https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/odinhc/virpil_collective_and_lh_alpha_impressions/
 
One other guy posted some impressions on reddit/simhq:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/obyttd/virpil_collective_sharka50_grip_chair_mount/

Thanks for the writeup and the links.
Seems I won't be swapping out my K-51 just yet.
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[sirrah]

3 hours ago, Thermal said:

I did get mine on Friday. 

 

I just put up a "review" on reddit (started as a quick impression, but then I dug into it a bit deeper based on my findings):
https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/odinhc/virpil_collective_and_lh_alpha_impressions/

 

One other guy posted some impressions on reddit/simhq:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/obyttd/virpil_collective_sharka50_grip_chair_mount/

 

That first reply on your review on Reddit reminds me why I don't visit that mud pit 

 

Thanks for your review. Not really what I was hoping for, but honest . I hope your experience will improve when you give it more time.

 

Despite your review, I can't wait to try myself

[MAXsenna]

 
That first reply on your review on Reddit reminds me why I don't visit that mud pit 

Yup, never ceases to amaze me. But I play a little game with myself, and wonder if they'd be up to that behaviour in real life!

I really hope it will live up to your expectations though. I'd love to swap out the heads on mine!
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[sirrah]

28 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

I'd love to swap out the heads on mine!

 

Yeah, that's pretty much thè reason I went for Virpil over K-51

[crispy12]

Thanks for your review. I also tried to DIY a collective and came up with many of the similar issues. It's not easy to angle a huge lever like this and having delicate fine control. I should be receiving my collective tomorrow so I will report back my findings later.

 

 

[Thermal]

Edited July 5, 2021 by Thermal

[Thermal]

dang, the above post ate all my text

 

I spent some time today exploring the tension/clutch mechanism and trying varying settings - it didnt seem to make any difference between tightening one bolt vs two.  Its pretty easy to get enough tension to get the collective to hold in position at the top stop, but have it gently sink when its half way down.

The first half of the first graph above shows the Collective "falling" from stationary at about 50% down to the bottom stop.  It took like 12 seconds.  It was beautiful to watch.  Its smooooooooth. 

The second half if the first graph shows me trying to move the Collective around the 50% line.  In terms of my hand-movement its:  Push-nothing... push-nothing... push MOVE STOP. Pull-nothing... pull-nothing... pull MOVE STOP.  You can see the flat spots on the tops of the curves.  This reflects the feeling you get.  Fine adjustments are difficult and require concentration.

I also found that the more tension you put in the system the greater this tendency.

In comparison, the second graph shows my flogged out 10yo Warthog throttle.  Both the throttle axes track really well together, and you can seen its smoother and you have finer control, with less concentration.  its just easier to make the throttle do what you want.  You can gently nudge the throttle and progressively move it.

And these "laboratory" examples are borne out when flying - its just a bit harder with the collective to get it to do fine adjustments.  Coarse adjustments are fine.  So I find the precision of the Collective to be just "ok".  Its not "great" like my VKB Gunfighter.  Its not even as good as my Warthog throttle.  But its not terrible.  It might well be the best collective on the market, I dont know.  I am just comparing it to what I have.

I certainly acknowledge that there are some very significant engineering challenges to be overcome with the collective and the large lever arm.

So I feel like, for the money, I was expecting a 300AUD single axis purpose built device to be a bit "more".  Or at least "better than my throttle". 
 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Thermal

[sirrah]

5 hours ago, Thermal said:

dang, the above post ate all my text

 

I spent some time today exploring the tension/clutch mechanism and trying varying settings - it didnt seem to make any difference between tightening one bolt vs two.  Its pretty easy to get enough tension to get the collective to hold in position at the top stop, but have it gently sink when its half way down.

The first half of the first graph above shows the Collective "falling" from stationary at about 50% down to the bottom stop.  It took like 12 seconds.  It was beautiful to watch.  Its smooooooooth. 

The second half if the first graph shows me trying to move the Collective around the 50% line.  In terms of my hand-movement its:  Push-nothing... push-nothing... push MOVE STOP. Pull-nothing... pull-nothing... pull MOVE STOP.  You can see the flat spots on the tops of the curves.  This reflects the feeling you get.  Fine adjustments are difficult and require concentration.

I also found that the more tension you put in the system the greater this tendency.

In comparison, the second graph shows my flogged out 10yo Warthog throttle.  Both the throttle axes track really well together, and you can seen its smoother and you have finer control, with less concentration.  its just easier to make the throttle do what you want.  You can gently nudge the throttle and progressively move it.

And these "laboratory" examples are borne out when flying - its just a bit harder with the collective to get it to do fine adjustments.  Coarse adjustments are fine.  So I find the precision of the Collective to be just "ok".  Its not "great" like my VKB Gunfighter.  Its not even as good as my Warthog throttle.  But its not terrible.  It might well be the best collective on the market, I dont know.  I am just comparing it to what I have.

I certainly acknowledge that there are some very significant engineering challenges to be overcome with the collective and the large lever arm.

So I feel like, for the money, I was expecting a 300AUD single axis purpose built device to be a bit "more".  Or at least "better than my throttle". 
 

 

 

Did you get the base with the throttle twist axis? If so, any word on that part?

[Thermal]

The twist collective was delayed.  Shipping mid-July.  https://www.facebook.com/VIRPILControls/posts/4752777208171434

[sirrah]

1 hour ago, Thermal said:

The twist collective was delayed.  Shipping mid-July.  https://www.facebook.com/VIRPILControls/posts/4752777208171434

 

Ah yes, of course. Stupid of me 

[AKA_Clutter]

Two different reviews with two vastly different takes.  The one by Thermal seems to be more detailed, but also disappointing.  The reason I got this was for more realism but if it doesn't have the precision necessary to fly a helicopter with FINE control, not sure what I'll do.

[crispy12]

Have you tried increasing the collective range using the swappable plate? Does this behavior improve? The fine accuracy will surely improve due to utilizing more of the sensor

[Wychmaster]

@Thermal thanks for the detailed test. However, what I am really interested in is if the reduced precision has any actual effect when flying a Helo, especially in a hover where you need small adjustments to maintain altitude. I mean, you have this big lever to make small adjustment with rather large control movements.

 

When I am hovering with my warthog throttle, I do really small adjustments but I have no clue how many of the possible values I skip over during one adjustment. Maybe I just don't need that much precision, even though it is certainly nice to have.

 

So my question is, how does it feel in action?

 

Additional question: Do you know the exact resolution? IIRC one of the reviewers mentioned 10 bit. Is this correct.

[cordite]

5 hours ago, Wychmaster said:

 

Additional question: Do you know the exact resolution? IIRC one of the reviewers mentioned 10 bit. Is this correct.

Thermal was the one who mentioned that. There doesn’t seem to be an official spec from Virpil yet. 
 

I cancelled for now. I may end up getting it later; what I really need is an Apache collective. And Virpil has shown an interest in that, at least.

[Wychmaster]

vor einer Stunde schrieb cordite:

what I really need is an Apache collective. 

Who doesn't

 

Have you a link where Virpil mentioned that they consider it?

[crispy12]

I've set up the collective to my Secret Lab chair. I'll be doing some intensive heli testing over the next few days. My initial opinion. The black shark grip is fantastic. The base is okay-ish. The collective base mount is horrible (it was too narrow by 5mm). The mounting plates are very restrictive. Set up seemed ok, but i followed the instructions which were fairly clearly laid out.

Time to fly