flap jamming

[9thHunt]

Can anyone can give me some tips on avoiding jamming the flaps?  It seems like every time I do a cat shot since the flaps were changed, the right inboard flap jams in the full down position.

[Malamem]

Do not delay in retracting the flaps. The manual says to retract the flaps upon passing 180-185kt AFAIK.

[Eagle7907]

Precisely. Be ready for the sink rate though. It’s not a lot but to the inexperienced can be easily missed.


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[Jackjack171]

Come out of burner a lot sooner than you may have been before. Like after your clearing turn while you raise your flaps.

[Sideburns]

I tend to just use the manoeuvre flaps (DLC back/forward) for carrier take off rather than the full flaps, and full MIL power on the F14b only. The F14a does need AB though I try to cut it as soon as possible to conserve fuel.

 

Edit the new update does improve non-AB TF30 / F14a performance, I still like to run a bit of AB after clearing the cat to keep it safe though.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Sideburns

[Skysurfer]

Stay below 225kts and dont exceed 2G's both in pitch and roll. 

[9thHunt]

Thanks.  I switched from using a HOTAS button for binary flaps to using a lever axis (I have a bunch of Saitek pro throttle quads for multi-engine in MSFS), having a physical lever that shows the flap position helps a bit, now I just need to train out the leisurely cleanup I'm used to doing on climb out and my timing of bringing them out in the break.

Edited December 21, 2020 by 9thHunt

[Jackjack171]

The -A launches just fine from the carrier without AB! Mil power works! Since there is really no adjustment done on the Catapult side (weight, wind, steam) you could launch it flaps up and mil power only. I tried the heaviest load I could and the result was the same. She will rotate regardless. And you should be at full flaps for takeoff from the ship and not maneuver flaps unless, you don't care about realism and procedures!  

Edited December 21, 2020 by Jackjack171

[captain_dalan]

On 12/20/2020 at 11:00 PM, Sideburns said:

I tend to just use the manoeuvre flaps (DLC back/forward) for carrier take off rather than the full flaps, and full MIL power on the F14b only. The F14a does need AB though I try to cut it as soon as possible to conserve fuel.

Best advice ever. Use full flaps for landing ONLY! And even then, only when landing on the boat are they mandatory.

[Jackjack171]

51 minutes ago, captain_dalan said:

Best advice ever. Use full flaps for landing ONLY! And even then, only when landing on the boat are they mandatory.

Really? That's new. Where did you read this from?

[captain_dalan]

6 minutes ago, Jackjack171 said:

Really? That's new. Where did you read this from?

Nowhere, trial and error.
Well, not exactly. Once i had a chance to interview a person that claimed to be an F-14 driver and he said that they would often launch with half flaps or maneuver flaps only. Seams to have worked with the A's on full burner or zone 3.

As for landing with maneuver flaps on land bases, that's just something i discovered on my own in DCS. She produces so much lift that at times you don't really need flaps to land. So maneuver flaps are more then enough. Especially at lower weights. is this by the book? Heck now. But a lot of things aren't by the book in DCS and yet we put up with them

[Jackjack171]

1 hour ago, captain_dalan said:

Nowhere, trial and error.
Well, not exactly. Once i had a chance to interview a person that claimed to be an F-14 driver and he said that they would often launch with half flaps or maneuver flaps only. Seams to have worked with the A's on full burner or zone 3.

As for landing with maneuver flaps on land bases, that's just something i discovered on my own in DCS. She produces so much lift that at times you don't really need flaps to land. So maneuver flaps are more then enough. Especially at lower weights. is this by the book? Heck now. But a lot of things aren't by the book in DCS and yet we put up with them

Lol. True. DCS is after all a game. I try to fly IAW NATOPS and what I know from being on active duty. When I worked on the Flight Deck, I'd never seen a flaps up takeoff. Nor a landing for that matter. Seen a lot of single engine landings! Anyway, here's some from my NATOPS stash:

F-14
7.4.8.1 Maneuvering Flaps Takeoff
Maneuvering flaps provide improved takeoff perfor
mance when compared to the flaps−up configuration and
eliminate the pitching moment associated with main flap and
slat retraction after takeoff. Slow−speed handling character
istics are superior to the flaps−up configuration. Additionally,
possible automatic maneuvering flap/slat extension during
rotation/transition to flight can be avoided by extending ma
neuvering flaps before takeoff.

CV NATOPS (old) NAVAIR 00-80T-105
2. Ensure the aircraft is properly configured for
flight, paying particular attention to flap/slat setting, open panels, safety pins, wing locks, and
stabilator position.

The last part is for the A/C Director (me) and all involved in the launch. If the A/C is not configured correctly, we suspend the launch. In DCS, we have none of that though (yet). The catapult in DCS will launch you regardless of your weight and config and no one is there to tell you to stop. And let's not forget, there's the wind over deck and CAT steam pressure to consider Lol. 

3 hours ago, 9thHunt said:

Thanks.  I switched from using a HOTAS button for binary flaps to using a lever axis (I have a bunch of Saitek pro throttle quads for multi-engine in MSFS), having a physical lever that shows the flap position helps a bit, now I just need to train out the leisurely cleanup I'm used to doing on climb out and my timing of bringing them out in the break.

 

Found this for you mate:

F-14 NATOPS
8.7.6 Catapult Launch
On turnup signal from the catapult officer ensure
throttles in MIL and check all instruments. When ready for
launch, place external light master switch ON (bright and
steady). After launch, establish an 8° to 10 pitch attitude,
cross−checking instruments to ensure a positive rate of climb.
Retract the landing gear. An altitude of 500 feet is considered
to be minimum altitude for retraction of flaps. 

7.4.8.1 Maneuvering Flaps Takeoff
Maneuvering flaps provide improved takeoff perfor
mance when compared to the flaps−up configuration and
eliminate the pitching moment associated with main flap and
slat retraction after takeoff. Slow−speed handling character
istics are superior to the flaps−up configuration. Additionally,
possible automatic maneuvering flap/slat extension during
rotation/transition to flight can be avoided by extending ma
neuvering flaps before takeoff.

F-14B/D
7.4.7.1 Afterburner Takeoff
Afterburner takeoffs are limited to single−engine, mini
mum afterburner takeoffs, waveoffs, bolters, or catapult
launches. Dual−engine afterburner and single−engine maxi
mum afterburner takeoffs, waveoffs, bolters, or catapult
launches are prohibited. Refer to Chapters 4 and 11.

Hope this helps!

[captain_dalan]

12 minutes ago, Jackjack171 said:

Lol. True. DCS is after all a game. I try to fly IAW NATOPS and what I know from being on active duty. When I worked on the Flight Deck, I'd never seen a flaps up takeoff. Nor a landing for that matter. Seen a lot of single engine landings! Anyway, here's some from my NATOPS stash:

F-14
7.4.8.1 Maneuvering Flaps Takeoff
Maneuvering flaps provide improved takeoff perfor
mance when compared to the flaps−up configuration and
eliminate the pitching moment associated with main flap and
slat retraction after takeoff. Slow−speed handling character
istics are superior to the flaps−up configuration. Additionally,
possible automatic maneuvering flap/slat extension during
rotation/transition to flight can be avoided by extending ma
neuvering flaps before takeoff.

 

Hah, that guy wasn't pulling my leg it would seam. They really did maneuver flap takeoffs in the thing
My faith in my old time internet acquaintances is restored!

[9thHunt]

On 12/21/2020 at 5:59 PM, Jackjack171 said:

F-14B/D

7.4.7.1 Afterburner Takeoff
Afterburner takeoffs are limited to single−engine, mini
mum afterburner takeoffs, waveoffs, bolters, or catapult
launches. Dual−engine afterburner and single−engine maxi
mum afterburner takeoffs, waveoffs, bolters, or catapult
launches are prohibited. Refer to Chapters 4 and 11.

What does it mean by single- or duel engine AB?  Doesn't the tomcat have an asymmetric thrust limiter that prevents the pilot from putting only one engine in afterburner?

[Skysurfer]

13 minutes ago, 9thHunt said:

What does it mean by single- or duel engine AB?  Doesn't the tomcat have an asymmetric thrust limiter that prevents the pilot from putting only one engine in afterburner?

Said system will keep one engine in min burner until the other one lights as well.

[IronMike]

It is important to remember that 225 knots is the flap limit. Now, if you do overspeed them, do not dispair. Doesnt mean they will break right away, however: you must avoid moving them when oversped. So say you take off, forget and find yourself at 270kts with full flaps down. Do not retract them. First: slow down below 225 kts, then retract them and make sure to avoid aggressive maneuvers while they are out and you should be good no problem. The jamming 9/10 comes from moving the flaps when overspeeding.

 

As for landings and take offs: MFs on landbased, full flaps on carrier, always full flaps on landing + speedbreak. no AB during take off for the B (because if 1 engine fails assymmetric thrust will be too big and kill you) and ABs for the A.