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New Cockpit for the Sabre???


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Hey Guys,

 

the cockpit of the Sabre looks really outdated in comparrison to the newer module (Viper, Tomcat, A-10c 2, ...)

The Blackshark and the Warthog got new Cockpits.

Would it be possible to do also a new cockpit and pilot-model for the Sabre?

 

Would be cool, to see this updated.

 

Thanks

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I think it looks perfectly nice and functional .. I'd rather have more Cold-War assets added to facilitate editing missions for the sabre, than investing development resources on beautifying the cockpit.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I agree  should be updated. the Black shark had its cockpit update, A10C got a cockpit update, so should other ED modules.

 

I think they probably will when they have the time.

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Fixing the cockpit shadows (setting: High) on the Sabre and the MIG-15 has higher priority with me. Adding new damage models for both would be nice too.


Edited by Grimleo
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  • 4 weeks later...

I would agree as well. The most glaring issue is that no fighter pilot is going to fly into combat with a compass situated where it is. One of the advantages of the Sabre is its superior cockpit ergonomic design and superior visibility over the MiG. It seems like Belsimtek went out of its way to put the compass in the most annoying (yet admittedly historically accurate in rare circumstances) position. 

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I can't shake off the impression that Belsimtek people got their hands on "a" Sabre, not "the" Sabre. A Sabre in a museum or some other place of this sort. It seems they might have just recreated a partly "wrong" aircraft, one that had been modified/restored. For example, when this museum/place/whatever got this Sabre, some parts were missing on the plane and later they were restored by museum people (a talented locksmith etc.) - for better or worse. Or something like that. Then, years later, Belsimtek people stormed in, photographed everything and stormed out. I suspect this kind of a scenario.

 

I complained about bombing altimeter in another thread, but people seem to be happy to meticulously set the "target altitude" according to the manual... even though it's utterly pointless and does nothing. No one seems to have even noticed that it makes no sense. North American engineers wouldn't do pointless instruments, but what is more interesting, the instrument in DCS: F-86F even LOOKS substantially different from the one in the manual for the real plane.
Now, it might have been the case that a Belsimtek guy ignored the instrument he saw in the manual and instead created "an artist's impression", fruit of his imagination. But that sounds just silly.

What sounds more plausible however, is that he simply got photos of such "mutilated" instrument and recreated just this.

 

It may be a similar/same story with the standby compass. The manual shows where it should be - I attached the pictures, so... why didn't they just do it that way?
I guess they just saw and touched a Sabre where the compass was above the sight. They made a million photos (instead of using those few blurry pictures from the old manual).
I'm not sure, @Wolf_ofthe_North what exactly you are referring to here:

 

On 2/2/2021 at 10:42 PM, Wolf_ofthe_North said:

yet admittedly historically accurate in rare circumstances

 

 

Anyway... if textures are biggest worry for some of you, I guess we're not in the same boat. I mean, yeah, why not - pretty is prettier than less pretty, as philosophers claim, but to me "first things first" should be the way to go:
1. The sound bug fixed. Other bugs (I can't tell myself - bought the Sabre not long ago, have only 25 hrs in the air).
2. Flight model at transsonic speeds investigated/reconsidered.
3. The above. The "suspicious" instruments investigated/reconsidered.
4. Is AI MiG-15 really OK? It's one of the very few Sabre's oppontens in single player... or the only one... and it seems to be too good. Too good even for human controlled MiG-15 (different flight models... maybe too different). I'm a DCS noob, so it's hard for me, but I tested F-86F vs. AI F-86F, 86 vs. AI MiG, MiG vs. AI 86 and MiG vs. AI MiG. All AI planes UNARMED, so they could only run and I could chase them forever just to see how it goes. Tell me I'm wrong, but AI F-86 is easy to catch, regardless if you chase it in 86 of MiG, and AI MiG is next to impossible to catch (at least for me) - regardless if you chase it in Sabre or in the very same type of MiG. Well, I don't know, but there may be - just may be - something strange here.

5. As @Rudel_chw says - assets of the time, something to accompany two of those wonderful, but rather "lonely" (in DCS) planes.
6. Eye-candy, if time and energy allow.

 

The Sabre is such a delightful plane, I guess she would gladly accept a bit of attention more 🙂 Yes, I know, it's a very busy time fo ED and you can't have everything in life.

f-86f_stby_compass_newer.PNG

f-86f_stby_compass_older.PNG

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On 2/2/2021 at 10:42 PM, Wolf_ofthe_North said:

put the compass in the most annoying (yet admittedly historically accurate in rare circumstances) position

I think I've found it (quote from the manual - below). I wonder on which particular aircraft they mounted the compass top center. Were they planes for a primary task other than A2A, some "special" planes? I wish I knew. It seems so strange to obscure the view in a fighter with something so unimportant (normally) as a backup compass.

 

stby_compass.PNG

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On 12/19/2020 at 1:39 PM, Rudel_chw said:

I think it looks perfectly nice and functional .. I'd rather have more Cold-War assets added to facilitate editing missions for the sabre, than investing development resources on beautifying the cockpit.


I actually think Rudel has the right of this. While the Sabre (along with F-5E) is showing its age, in DCS it exists in a place practically devoid of purpose. With the Huey, full fidelity MiG's we have, and F-8, Bronco (theoretically), and Electric Lightning on the horizon, appropriate 60's-70's Cold War assets would be a better use of time and labor at this point. Perhaps if the ability to create a more appropriate operating environment for the Saber (AND MiG-15) were more robust, they would be flown and purchased in greater numbers and these modules would receive more attention.   

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In homage to the 70's superstar Billy Joel:

 

Don't go changing to try and please me
You never let me down before, mmm
Don't imagine you're too familiar
And I don't see you anymore
I would not leave you in times of trouble
We never could have come this far, mmm
I took the good times, I'll take the bad times
I'll take you just the way you are

🙂
 

Edited by flameoutme
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On 2/3/2021 at 5:34 PM, scoobie said:

I can't shake off the impression that Belsimtek people got their hands on "a" Sabre, not "the" Sabre. A Sabre in a museum or some other place of this sort. It seems they might have just recreated a partly "wrong" aircraft, one that had been modified/restored. For example, when this museum/place/whatever got this Sabre, some parts were missing on the plane and later they were restored by museum people (a talented locksmith etc.) - for better or worse. Or something like that. Then, years later, Belsimtek people stormed in, photographed everything and stormed out. I suspect this kind of a scenario.

 

I complained about bombing altimeter in another thread, but people seem to be happy to meticulously set the "target altitude" according to the manual... even though it's utterly pointless and does nothing. No one seems to have even noticed that it makes no sense. North American engineers wouldn't do pointless instruments, but what is more interesting, the instrument in DCS: F-86F even LOOKS substantially different from the one in the manual for the real plane.
Now, it might have been the case that a Belsimtek guy ignored the instrument he saw in the manual and instead created "an artist's impression", fruit of his imagination. But that sounds just silly.

What sounds more plausible however, is that he simply got photos of such "mutilated" instrument and recreated just this.

 

It may be a similar/same story with the standby compass. The manual shows where it should be - I attached the pictures, so... why didn't they just do it that way?
I guess they just saw and touched a Sabre where the compass was above the sight. They made a million photos (instead of using those few blurry pictures from the old manual).
I'm not sure, @Wolf_ofthe_North what exactly you are referring to here:

 

 

 

Anyway... if textures are biggest worry for some of you, I guess we're not in the same boat. I mean, yeah, why not - pretty is prettier than less pretty, as philosophers claim, but to me "first things first" should be the way to go:
1. The sound bug fixed. Other bugs (I can't tell myself - bought the Sabre not long ago, have only 25 hrs in the air).
2. Flight model at transsonic speeds investigated/reconsidered.
3. The above. The "suspicious" instruments investigated/reconsidered.
4. Is AI MiG-15 really OK? It's one of the very few Sabre's oppontens in single player... or the only one... and it seems to be too good. Too good even for human controlled MiG-15 (different flight models... maybe too different). I'm a DCS noob, so it's hard for me, but I tested F-86F vs. AI F-86F, 86 vs. AI MiG, MiG vs. AI 86 and MiG vs. AI MiG. All AI planes UNARMED, so they could only run and I could chase them forever just to see how it goes. Tell me I'm wrong, but AI F-86 is easy to catch, regardless if you chase it in 86 of MiG, and AI MiG is next to impossible to catch (at least for me) - regardless if you chase it in Sabre or in the very same type of MiG. Well, I don't know, but there may be - just may be - something strange here.

5. As @Rudel_chw says - assets of the time, something to accompany two of those wonderful, but rather "lonely" (in DCS) planes.
6. Eye-candy, if time and energy allow.

 

The Sabre is such a delightful plane, I guess she would gladly accept a bit of attention more 🙂 Yes, I know, it's a very busy time fo ED and you can't have everything in life.

f-86f_stby_compass_newer.PNG

f-86f_stby_compass_older.PNG

 

 

Although i had overlooked those side panel inconsistencies I had also noted other ones.

 

 

 

Truth be told BST sort of did the same thing with the F5E tiger. It also isn't quite accurately representative of any one model even though it was specifically mentioned it was supposed to be a US agressor.

 

 

 

 


Edited by Kev2go

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 1/4/2021 at 9:20 AM, Supersabre said:

I agree i would love to see a updated Sabre cockpit

 

I would absolutely pay for Heatblur to re-do the cockpit/textures of the Sabre at this point. Really enjoying the aircraft and is one of the few aircraft I still fly in DCS out of my collection of modules.

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2 minutes ago, VampireNZ said:

 

I would absolutely pay for Heatblur to re-do the cockpit/textures of the Sabre at this point. 

 

The Sabre is an ED/Belsimtek product ... highly unlikely that Heatblur would be tasked with beautifying the Sabre.

 

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Just now, Rudel_chw said:

 

The Sabre is an ED/Belsimtek product ... highly unlikely that Heatblur would be tasked with beautifying the Sabre.

......yes I am aware who made the module., however HB are far and away the best cockpits in DCS, hence the desire to see ED contract HB to make the Sabre amazing.

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19 minutes ago, VampireNZ said:

...... hence the desire to see ED contract HB to make the Sabre amazing.

 

The Sabre is amazing even without "prettier" textures and shadows ... I can't understand why the superficial aspects of a simulation are so important to most people, better textures will not improve your flight sim experience, but having a wider amount of period-appropiate AI assets would.

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25 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

The Sabre is amazing even without "prettier" textures and shadows ... I can't understand why the superficial aspects of a simulation are so important to most people, better textures will not improve your flight sim experience, but having a wider amount of period-appropiate AI assets would.

 

You not understanding something sounds like a you problem, that you could keep to yourself.

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17 minutes ago, VampireNZ said:

 

You not understanding something sounds like a you problem, that you could keep to yourself.

 

OK, tough it seems I could say the same about you 🙄  .. not to worry, I will never debate with you again.

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9 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

OK, tough it seems I could say the same about you 🙄  .. not to worry, I will never debate with you again.

🙄   Show me on the doll where the bad man touched you....

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56 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

The Sabre is amazing even without "prettier" textures and shadows ... I can't understand why the superficial aspects of a simulation are so important to most people, better textures will not improve your flight sim experience, but having a wider amount of period-appropiate AI assets would.

I think better textures improve my flight sim experience. Jumping into something like the P-47 or the Tomcat in VR is an amazing experience, and then when going to an older module like the Sabre it's immediately apparent that I'm in a module that was developed a while ago. Yes, I like the Sabre too, but with how realistic the F-14 is, it feels more like I'm in a video game when starting in the Sabre vs one of the newer modules.

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On 3/10/2021 at 2:33 PM, VampireNZ said:

 

You not understanding something sounds like a you problem, that you could keep to yourself.

 

I think you're missing the point, Vampire. I don't think anyone is against improving an existing cockpit. We all want nicer, shinier things in our sim.

 

However, I think Rudel's point is valid: there are much deeper issues with the Sabre than just the aging cockpit. The fact that there is no era-specific environment for the Sabre to operate in (at least aircraft and unit-wise) is part of the reason why the module's popularity (including the MiG-15's) has taken a nose dive for the last few years. Having a plane in itself is always nice, but I can't imagine flying any of my WW2 warbirds in a non-WWII setting. There has to be a proper environment for the aircraft to operate in, which is what Rudel is advocating for.


Edited by Charly_Owl
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I am ok with the current textures for the cockpit, not perfect but they look good in a Reverb.

 

Our Korean War server is ok with our pretend AI assets and pretend that it is Korea Caucasus map but what really needs to be fixed is the sound bug.

 

We have co-op missions every other Sunday with 10-14 pilots. Every single week at least one or two pilots call out "my sound is gone!". They then have to grab a new Sabre to get sound back as it is downright uncomfortable to fly without being able to hear engine changes in your plane, among other sounds. 


Edited by Miles Vorkosigan
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20 minutes ago, Miles Vorkosigan said:

...  but what really need to be fixed is the sound bug.

 

I agree .. it's really a shame for ED to have had this Bug unsolved for more than 4 years now, really incredible 🙄

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Looking at the pattern DCS set last year by updating cockpits of the 2 oldest modules in DCS, A-10C and KA-50, it will just be a matter of time. 

  • I could envision ED doing cockpit updates at a time when the release of other planes or maps are in long development cycle.  With the proper timing ED would probably be able to generate a lot of extra unit sales for the updated modules from the hype and interest generated.
  • But of course,  that would only come with period accurate assets and maps. 

For now I used some of the GOOD Cockpit Updates available in the Downloads >> User files in the DCS Website.

 

Check out:

  1. F-86_RCAF by joco417 
  2. F-53 TIGER Pit by bummer & Lee1hy
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  • 1 month later...
On 2/3/2021 at 11:34 PM, scoobie said:

 instrument in DCS: F-86F even LOOKS substantially different from the one in the manual for the real plane.

Now, it might have been the case that a Belsimtek guy ignored the instrument he saw in the manual and instead created "an artist's impression", fruit of his imagination. But that sounds just silly.

What sounds more plausible however, is that he simply got photos of such "mutilated" instrument and recreated just this.

What is wrong?

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2021 at 2:59 PM, -0303- said:

What is wrong?

Oh, hi... old stuff.

There's a grievously mundane elaboration (my attempted "investigation") in this topic: Bombing altimeter (MPC) incorrectly modelled? but I also included a picture there - a huge closeup on the bombing altimeter from the RL manual. I'm sure this picture makes it easier to get my point there.


Edited by scoobie

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