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TDC Axis working in the meantime?


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I would say, that it is still bugged, but not how you may think.  Using the TDC axis still stutters and pauses inexplicably. It's been doing that forever.  But the latest is the HUD indicator jumps all over the place.
It's been reported.  So keep checking in.  One day...

Flying the Harrier

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I've been pullling my hairs about this. I thought there's something wrong with my HOTAS that caused the intermittent stutter when slewing the TDC. This is really frustrating.

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I've been pullling my hairs about this. I thought there's something wrong with my HOTAS that caused the intermittent stutter when slewing the TDC. This is really frustrating.

I’ve given up on the axis and mapped my mini-stick to buttons. It’s the only module I’ve had to do this.


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On 12/16/2020 at 10:58 AM, ricktoberfest said:


I’ve given up on the axis and mapped my mini-stick to buttons. It’s the only module I’ve had to do this.


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Hows that working for ya?

Flying the Harrier

IYAOYAS



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Hows that working for ya?

Better than I thought it would. Just programmed the various axis in joystick gremlin to push a button at 80%. Then I use that “virtual button” as my tdc slew buttons.

Obviously not as good as an axis, but better than having to take away a hat switch from something else.


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On latest OB it looks like no matter how you map TDC axis, they are inverted between TV and TPOD. So right in TV will be left in TPOD and vice versa.

Also the tutorial mentions to push Sensor Switch aft twice to go to TV/ASBR but it doesn't work.

And TPOD will always be slaved to TV for me 

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Nothing has changed for me.  I'm still mapped to Axis.  There is stuttering, stopping, and jumping, in the DMT that isn't present in other Modules.  I haven't even tried the TPOD.

ELMO if you or someone else at Razbam are not experiencing these issues, please post your settings related to TDC slew so we can do an apple to apples comparison.

I posted a video awhile back and nothing has changed for the better.  In fact slew interaction has gotten worse with recent updates that's been reported already.

Flying the Harrier

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Paradoxically the tdc slew seems to work best (non-buggy smooth movement) when the DMT is in INS mode and pressing tdc down over a target, although my understanding is that it shouldn’t slew in that mode as you’re supposed to press sss aft to put the DMT into TV mode, its therefore not working as it should yet the slew movement works best in a mode that it shouldn’t be working in!

 

Drives me mad at times, you need so much perseverance with this module you really do.

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1 hour ago, Dr Zaius said:

Paradoxically the tdc slew seems to work best (non-buggy smooth movement) when the DMT is in INS mode and pressing tdc down over a target, although my understanding is that it shouldn’t slew in that mode as you’re supposed to press sss aft to put the DMT into TV mode, its therefore not working as it should yet the slew movement works best in a mode that it shouldn’t be working in!

 

Drives me mad at times, you need so much perseverance with this module you really do.

It used to not slew in INS mode, but the training mission specifically giving instruction to the contrary.  I think a note was added to the mission that it would be added later.  

I'd like a new set of instructions as to the procedures current procedures.  What's with the TDC Down Action button.  I thought the TDC wouldn't slew unless it was held.  There are so many inconsistencies with this thing and axis is so twitchy.  I don't have this issue with the F18, F16, Viggen, or the F5.

I've gotten used to using EHSD designation, but it takes forever to get the DMT on a target if it's not sitting on the steer point. 

Flying the Harrier

IYAOYAS



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14 hours ago, SGT Coyle said:

It used to not slew in INS mode, but the training mission specifically giving instruction to the contrary.  I think a note was added to the mission that it would be added later.  

I'd like a new set of instructions as to the procedures current procedures.  What's with the TDC Down Action button.  I thought the TDC wouldn't slew unless it was held.  There are so many inconsistencies with this thing and axis is so twitchy.  I don't have this issue with the F18, F16, Viggen, or the F5.

I've gotten used to using EHSD designation, but it takes forever to get the DMT on a target if it's not sitting on the steer point. 

 

16 hours ago, Dr Zaius said:

Paradoxically the tdc slew seems to work best (non-buggy smooth movement) when the DMT is in INS mode and pressing tdc down over a target, although my understanding is that it shouldn’t slew in that mode as you’re supposed to press sss aft to put the DMT into TV mode, its therefore not working as it should yet the slew movement works best in a mode that it shouldn’t be working in!

 

Drives me mad at times, you need so much perseverance with this module you really do.

 

You should be able to slew in both INS and DMT. 

 

TDC Depress (Action) isn't implemented yet. The Difference between holding it down or not is different slew rates. Slewing without the button being held (No Action Mode) slews it slowly and is used for target refinement. Slewing with the button being held (Action Mode) slews it 2x faster and is used for gross adjustments. 

 

Transferring targets between systems (such as creating a designation in INS and then pressing SSS to transfer the designation to DMT, or vice versa) are techniques for attacking targets in various conditions and with various weapons. 

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OK I've remapped my TDC slewing to my arrow keys.  I have cleared my TDC Axis mapping.  I am going through the most recent pocket guide provided in the OB 2.5.6.59398

In game setup:  Instant Action Mission, "Conventional Bombing on Nevada Map",  DMT off,  3 degree down(put Velocity Vector below horizon), AFC engaged.

 

Pocket Guide  pg 62: 

  • SSS Forward selects the INS sensor mode and in A/G, NAV or VSTOL master mode assigns the TDC to the HUD. TO provide a cue that the TDC is assigned to the HUD a dot is displayed in the middle of the velocity vector

Press SSS forward:  No Dot,  No TDC inputs discernible on HUD(no target box or diamond).    

With the VV below horizon press SSS Forward and press TDC Down Action we get a Diamond with a dot (Dot never appears in VV).  An INS Designation.  Yay!

Slewing with TDC in INS mode does occur, but not very well.  TCD Left and Right slewing is inverted.  TDC Up and Down not working at all.  These are Keyboard commands not Axis.  When enabled, Axis commands do not work at all.   

 

I started this with DMT off because I was having issues with the TDC slewing.  So I wanted to isolate this to INS (HUD).  INS slewing has issues with or without DMT on or off.  If you make an INS designation and SSS Aft, DMT TV is slewed to INS position and DMT TV will slew as expected.  The HUD indication is still messed up beyond all recognition.

 

I hope this helps.  It helped me. 

I got my TDC working with key commands.  I'd prefer Axis, but a girl can dream.

 

 

 

Flying the Harrier

IYAOYAS



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2 hours ago, ChickenSim said:

 

 

You should be able to slew in both INS and DMT. 

 

TDC Depress (Action) isn't implemented yet. The Difference between holding it down or not is different slew rates. Slewing without the button being held (No Action Mode) slews it slowly and is used for target refinement. Slewing with the button being held (Action Mode) slews it 2x faster and is used for gross adjustments. 

 

Transferring targets between systems (such as creating a designation in INS and then pressing SSS to transfer the designation to DMT, or vice versa) are techniques for attacking targets in various conditions and with various weapons. 

Well this could explain a lot of the weird behaviour that confuses me, will give it a try - can i just double check your meaning of slew in both INS and DMT, by DMT do you mean TV?

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26 minutes ago, Dr Zaius said:

Well this could explain a lot of the weird behaviour that confuses me, will give it a try - can i just double check your meaning of slew in both INS and DMT, by DMT do you mean TV?

 

Yes, TV. SSS Aft cycles between the two designation sources contained within the DMT: ARBS/TV and ARBS/LST. I'm convinced half the issues we have understanding these systems are probably attributable to how often the terms are used technically or informally, so I apologize for any confusion. 

 

The system is designed to give you flexibility for how you wish to attack your target. This may come in the form of an INS Designation, which is essentially just a coordinate and elevation stored in the aircraft's "memory" and displayed on your sensors where it thinks this coordinate/elevation is relative to your aircraft. It may also come in the form of an ARBS/TV designation, which contrast-locks onto an object of interest and does all the angle-rate sorcery to determine where it is in space. You have the options of manually transferring these points in space between designation sources with the SSS, and in some cases the system will automatically create or transfer designations for you (such as with Point Blank designations, or overflying an ARBS-TV target and the system transferring the designation to INS when the DMT hits its gimbal limits, respectively). There are others (LST/TPOD) as well that I'm not even going into.

 

As @SGT Coyle has also run across in the post above, the entire designation and slewing system as implemented is inconsistent with the documentation and based on conflicting accounts of how the system works versus how it is often used.

 

 


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59 minutes ago, SGT Coyle said:

Press SSS forward:  No Dot,  No TDC inputs discernible on HUD(no target box or diamond).    

With the VV below horizon press SSS Forward and press TDC Down Action we get a Diamond with a dot (Dot never appears in VV).  An INS Designation.  Yay!

Slewing with TDC in INS mode does occur, but not very well.  TCD Left and Right slewing is inverted.  TDC Up and Down not working at all.  These are Keyboard commands not Axis.  When enabled, Axis commands do not work at all.   

 

There are conflicting sources on when you should see the box. 

 

Some say the box appears whenever you slew off the designation source (if one didn't exist already). Some say the box appears (the "target" being "designated") only after tapping and releasing TDC. Some suggest the box will appear when you hold the TDC down and slew off, but the target isn't properly "designated" until the TDC is released. It's possible they're all correct under different conditions.

 

I am also pretty sure slewing in INS isn't working as intended. As implemented, you are slewing the box across the ground plane, so the further your target is from you (the closer it appears to the horizon), the slower it appears to slew. I am pretty certain it is supposed to slew at a steady angular rate like the DMT / ARBS/TV does, despite being locked onto to the ground plane rather than visual contrast.

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11 minutes ago, ChickenSim said:

 

Yes, TV. SSS Aft cycles between the two designation sources contained within the DMT: ARBS/TV and ARBS/LST. I'm convinced half the issues we have understanding these systems are probably attributable to how often the terms are used technically or informally, so I apologize for any confusion.

Thanks ChickenSim, out of curiosity do we know if the F18 and/or any other module suffers from the same level of ambiguity?

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1 hour ago, SGT Coyle said:

I would venture to guess, that an INS (HUD) designation is a Diamond.  As opposed to a Box for DMT.  The Diamond does slew if I wasn't clear.

 

Ambiguity strikes again, I meant "box" to informally mean any variation of the target designation diamond or rectangle.

 

Initializing that target designation symbol at the VV using the TDC should occur the same way, regardless of which of those target designation methods you're using.


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I've been messing around with tdc deadzones and found that the slew stutter happens much less if you have it set to 0 (I had it set to 20), its a little skittish so I lower the axis to compensate, it still gets a little stuck every now and then (only in TV mode though, INS seems to be completely fine) but its much improved, I use a TMWH with the thumbstick slew sensor upgrade installed so I don't know if this would work with the old (crappy) sensor fitted - give it a try.

 

5 hours ago, ChickenSim said:

I am also pretty sure slewing in INS isn't working as intended. As implemented, you are slewing the box across the ground plane, so the further your target is from you (the closer it appears to the horizon), the slower it appears to slew. I am pretty certain it is supposed to slew at a steady angular rate like the DMT / ARBS/TV does, despite being locked onto to the ground plane rather than visual contrast.

 

To me it seems as though the INS slew works at one speed in its horizontal movement and another (slower) in the vertical, I couldn't really tell if the cursor speed (in the vertical) changed any either closer to the horizon or not, I could be mistaken though as I was trying a few things out at the same time - some good news, the Maverick inversion issue looks to have been fixed!

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Dr Zaius said:

I've been messing around with tdc deadzones and found that the slew stutter happens much less if you have it set to 0 (I had it set to 20), its a little skittish so I lower the axis to compensate, it still gets a little stuck every now and then (only in TV mode though, INS seems to be completely fine) but its much improved, I use a TMWH with the thumbstick slew sensor upgrade installed so I don't know if this would work with the old (crappy) sensor fitted - give it a try.

 

I have the same setup.  I use TARGET Script Editor, do you?  I'll try the zero dead zone.  Thanks

Flying the Harrier

IYAOYAS



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16 hours ago, SGT Coyle said:

I have the same setup.  I use TARGET Script Editor, do you?  I'll try the zero dead zone.  Thanks

No I don’t bother with TARGET, everything is managed via the in game settings - its as if the problem stems from the transition of inputs, as though it doesn’t like a 2 input (diagonal movement) at once, thats why i initially had such a high deadzone but that somehow makes the problem worse.


Edited by Dr Zaius

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2 hours ago, SGT Coyle said:

I just tried the axis settings without TARGET.  Just straight up Default controller behavior.  Still weird results.

 

I posted two Bug reports.  One on the Keybindings and one on Axis

 

I tried mapping the tdc to the castle hat and it moves around much better, slow control is next to impossible though.

 

Fair play reporting it like you have, will be interesting to see if they have the same problems.


Edited by Dr Zaius

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18 minutes ago, Dr Zaius said:

I tried mapping the tdc to the castle hat and it moves around much better, slow control is next to impossible though.

 

Fair play reporting it like you have, will be interesting to see if they have the same problems.

 

Thanks,
As stated before, I much prefer to use Axis control.  It offers the best blend of coarse and fine control on the other modules.

Flying the Harrier

IYAOYAS



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