F-18 MIDS and Multiplayer Playability

[wilbur81]

10 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

which pretty much has nothing to do with F-16 vs F-18 capabilities, and more that F-18 pilots somehow think valley sneaking nonsense is how you counter F-16s (spoiler alert: it isnt). If you put competent pilots on both sides, id say its overall quite a level game

So hop on the GS server in the Hornet and do show us all your successes against those Vipers lobbing 120C's from 35K+ at Mach 1.5. 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by wilbur81

[dundun92]

1 minute ago, wilbur81 said:

So hop on the GS server in the Hornet and do show us all your successes against those Vipers lobbing 120C's from 35K+ at Mach 1.5. 

 

 

 

I have, I literally have gotten a 9 kill sortie in the F-18, and TBH I dont feel like digging up tons of tacviews to "prove" it. All I will say is that if you are having trouble defending "35K+ M1.5" AMRAAMs the problem is not the F-18, its your missile defense, simply being slightly exaggerated by the worse kinetics of the F-18. Also, theres probably a reason that Ive only seen one team in SATAL with no F-18s (GR, and its not like they really use the F-16 where it does best, high and fast).

[wilbur81]

1 hour ago, dundun92 said:

I have, I literally have gotten a 9 kill sortie in the F-18

Nice! Were any of these 9 kills in one sortie against Viper's...and with no groveling in Valleys? And you don't seem like a 10 amraam missile truck guy, so 9 kills in one mission, in the Hornet, on a public server, with as many Vipers in the air as the GS server... THAT is an Amazing accomplishment to be sure!

Edited March 2, 2021 by wilbur81

[dundun92]

16 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

Nice! Were any of these 9 kills in one sortie against Viper's...and with no groveling in Valleys? And you don't seem like a 10 amraam missile truck guy, so 9 kills in one mission, in the Hornet, on a public server, with as many Vipers in the air as the GS server... THAT is an Amazing accomplishment to be sure!

 

All but i think 2-3 were vs Vipers, the rest were flankers, and no I was never low except when split Sing to defend, and even then I got back to altitude quickly. And TBH, I take 10 missiles because personally, I tend to have a good balance between fuel and missile usage with 10. When I take just 6 I run out of missiles well before fuel in airquake scanarios. If i were in say a SATAL scenario, or I had a wingman or two it would be different and id probably take 6. And if im to be completely honest, this wasnt a "high effort" kind of thing like I would describe a SATAL style 4v4/6v6 where your corrdinating group tactics, nor did it require any special tricks/exploits (I dont recall having to notch any missiles). It was pretty simply keeping SA, flying high (above 30-35k), taking lofted shots from ~35 miles to keep a good A-Pole, and defending at the MAR. The important thing is less how many people youre killing, but how well you avoid dying. Whether your missile hits him is out of your hands, thats up to his defense skills (granted you always strive to increase Pk and should never make it easy for him. But ultimately its still not in your hands whether it hits). But your staying alive is 100% in your hands, and is probably the most important skill in BVR. As long as you are maximizing shot Pk, and keeing SA, defending properly, avoiding dying, no matter how little kills you get, your a lot better at BVR than the guy that gets a bunch of kills and dies just as much. Kills ultimately simply aren't a good measure of BVR competence; how well you adhere to the principles and concepts of BVR is.

Edited March 2, 2021 by dundun92

[wilbur81]

My biggest struggle in the Hornet on the MP scene (other than not having the time to commit to a squadron on a private server that actually flies realistic missions/scenarios/tactics) is that the Vipers' 120C's always go active while my 120C still has another 8-10 seconds (or more) TTA... making my defensive evasion offset 70 deg max (I always descend to the gimbal's elev. limits as well) before I break gimbal.  If I break off for an aggressive defensive evasion, my 120Cs of course go dumb... and while I'm turning back towards the bandit(s) for another shot, they've already fired one or two more 120Cs, rinse and repeat.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by wilbur81

[dundun92]

1 hour ago, wilbur81 said:

My biggest struggle in the Hornet on the MP scene (other than not having the time to commit to a squadron on a private server that actually flies realistic missions/scenarios/tactics) is that the Vipers' 120C's always go active while my 120C still has another 8-10 seconds (or more) TTA... making my defensive evasion offset 70 deg max (I always descend to the gimbal's elev. limits as well) before I break gimbal.  If I break off for an aggressive defensive evasion, my 120Cs of course go dumb... and while I'm turning back towards the bandit(s) for another shot, they've already fired one or two more 120Cs, rinse and repeat.

 

 

 

Thats likely because of too short a shot range. When are you taking your shots?

[wilbur81]

12 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

Thats likely because of too short a shot range. When are you taking your shots?

I typically end up taking that initial shot b/w 20K-30K ft and around M. 1.2, from 24-25 miles out (This is really just a warning shot to trip their RWR as there's VERY little chance I'm going to hit a maneuvering Viper from 24 miles out when I'm only doing 1.1-1.2 mach. This is all moot, though, because they're shooting at me from 25-35 (ish) miles and they're doing 1.5 - 1.6 Mach... and they keep shooting as I'm evading. 

 

More than anything, I need to be a part of a 4-ship of Hornets... 

Edited March 2, 2021 by wilbur81

[dundun92]

6 minutes ago, wilbur81 said:

I typically end up taking that initial shot b/w 20K-30K ft and around M. 1.2, from 24-25 miles out (This is really just a warning shot to trip their RWR as there's VERY little chance I'm going to hit a maneuvering Viper from 24 miles out when I'm only doing 1.1-1.2 mach. This is all moot, though, because they're shooting at me from 25-35 (ish) miles and they're doing 1.5 - 1.6 Mach... and they keep shooting as I'm evading. 

 

More than anything, I need to be a part of a 4-ship of Hornets... 

 

You need to be flying higher. You can definitely take shots out to 30-35nm, but you need to be abovr 30k, and you need to pitch up about 20-30° before firing

[wilbur81]

12 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

You need to be flying higher. You can definitely take shots out to 30-35nm, but you need to be abovr 30k, and you need to pitch up about 20-30° before firing

You're correct if the opposing Viper is lower and co-speed or slower than me. But going higher in a Hornet against a high and fast Viper is suicide. This is where most Viper's that get me are operating: b/w 35k - 40k, doing M. 1.5-1.6. Going up there in the Hornet is a big mistake against a high and fast Viper. Trust me, I've tried.

Edited March 2, 2021 by wilbur81

[dundun92]

6 minutes ago, wilbur81 said:

You're correct if the opposing Viper is lower and co-speed or slower than me. But going higher in a Hornet against a high and fast Viper is suicide. This is where most Viper's that get me are operating: b/w 35k - 40k, doing M. 1.5-1.6. Going up there in the Hornet is a big mistake. Trust me, I've tried.

All I can say is that I have tried, and it does work, and rather well. What exactly is happening when you fly higher? Staying under 30k vs Vipers at 35-40k means you die anyway as well, as youve clearly experienced at this point. Unless your gonna get good at notching AMRAAMs. Even cruising in the low 30s/upper 20s and pop up to 35-40k to shoot is better than just staying in the mid 20s and expecting to beat a dude at 40k.

 

Also, another thing to note, im mainly referring to being high when you shoot/before you shoot. Once you shoot, or generally when supporting missiles get low. I like to dive to about 20k after shooting while cranking about 30°, then once I hit 20k crank to gimbals. Staying high after shooting is the 2nd biggest mistake you can make here after not shooting from high enough.

Edited March 2, 2021 by dundun92

[wilbur81]

2 hours ago, dundun92 said:

Also, another thing to note, im mainly referring to being high when you shoot/before you shoot. Once you shoot, or generally when supporting missiles get low. I like to dive to about 20k after shooting while cranking about 30°, then once I hit 20k crank to gimbals. Staying high after shooting is the 2nd biggest mistake you can make here after not shooting from high enough.

 

I always dive from high in the Hornet in order to get my Mach to 1.4+ ish in order to get some inertia on my second shot... but my offset, chaff-ing, and diving isn't consistently enough against a Viper-supported 120C.... I do get kills on Viper's sometimes, but they seem to absolutely dominate the big public servers at the moment.

Edited March 3, 2021 by wilbur81