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Third Arm


Meyomyx
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Great to fly ... but how do they operate the F18 without a third arm?? Every 3 seconds there's another MDI PB to push. After the A10, it's a flippin nightmare. I love the way AG or AA selects selects radar on the other display ... just so you have a few more buttons to press!

 

Ah well, maybe that's why I never became a Hornet driver ;D

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1 hour ago, Meyomyx said:

Great to fly ... but how do they operate the F18 without a third arm?? Every 3 seconds there's another MDI PB to push. After the A10, it's a flippin nightmare. I love the way AG or AA selects selects radar on the other display ... just so you have a few more buttons to press!

 

Ah well, maybe that's why I never became a Hornet driver ;D

 

Hornet is missing the data cartridge capability to customize the stick and all displays that what they will show in various modes and what functions there are.

The Hornet is not really difficult to use after short learning curve.

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5 hours ago, Swiftwin9s said:

This is a common DCSism that people talk about. IRL it's not really an issue to just reach up and press a button, but in DCS you have to use a mouse which makes it an ordeal.

 

Yes - using a mouse left handed would be an advantage. In my case (and many people I suspect), I don't have a central stick that could be grabbed with my other hand. I realise this limitation.

 

Having said that, I'm still surprised by the number of settings that need to be adjusted in the heat of battle - radar in particular. It seems surprising that the convention seems to be that radar displays default to the right hand side. The left display would seem easier to manipulate whilst flying.

 

I would think that constantly pulling a few G's would make "just reaching up" far more significant than you mention?? Obviously I'm wrong as they do it.

 

I'm no Hornet driver so I'm only speculating. Maybe an interesting one to ask Jello 🙂

 

Is the lack of short/long HOTAS commands a DCSism or is this methodology not employed on the F18 I wonder?

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You are correct, reaching up whilst pulling G would be hard to do. However I am curious to know what situation you are in that would require that. As once WVR the ACM modes and all ACM combat can be done with the HOTAS.

 

As for the long/short commands, the hornet in DCS is missing a fair few HOTAS commands. We'll see what ED add.

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2 hours ago, Meyomyx said:

 

Yes - using a mouse left handed would be an advantage. In my case (and many people I suspect), I don't have a central stick that could be grabbed with my other hand. I realise this limitation.

 

I have a second mouse on the left side of the keyboard which i use for this purpose. it can be the cheapest one you can find OR get a gaming mouse and take advantage of the extra buttons. i believe many pilots would use non-stick hand for pushing buttons in front. after all keeping your direction and elevation is most important. the ground has a tendency to stop the plane's motion the best.

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Pro-Tip if i may?

 

I've mapped quite a few key OSB buttons (surrounding the DDI's) to my HOTAS so that I can control things like Radar range, Azimuth, El. Bars, RWS/TWS switching, and more without taking my hands off the controls. It baffles me, too, that anyone plays DCS with a mouse and not Thrustmaster's MFDs. 🙂  But seriously, I use four of TM's MFDs and do not ever touch the mouse in the pit.


Edited by wilbur81

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I also have OSB’s bound to my HOTAS (X56) that give me pretty detailed control of the attack radar and SA pages, which are my primary resources in air to air engagements. It is absolutely a game changer. I’ve often thought that having to actually use OSB’s in a real Hornet would irritate me quite a bit. 

That said, I also run my mouse dead middle of the HOTAS side by side with a kneeboard-I can access any buttons needed pretty quickly and with either hand. 

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I use a trackpad that is strapped to my left leg which makes using the needed mouse functions much easier than reaching for the mouse (VR user).  As for operating the RDR ATTK display, with TDC priority assigned, you can change the range by 'bumping' the cursor out and then back inside the dugout (top for increase range and bottom for decrease range) and bar scan by moving the cursor over those items and then TDC depress with TDC over the desired setting.  I believe this is also supposed to work for the azimuth and other adjustable options but haven't checked to see if those are implemented as of yet.  As another stated, when WVR the ACM modes should achieve all needed functionality/lethality.  Also, LHAQ is a tremendously useful mode when getting to that critical 40nm range.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

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I've got 3 Cougar MFDs and a homemade UFC controller, and I can say even with those interacting with the Hornet displays is pretty simple and easy. As Swift said, it works pretty well in the real jet, it's much more difficult in game if you've just got a mouse. 

 

But even still, in combat there aren't many DDI buttons that really need to be pressed. Most of the important stuff is accessible directly or indirectly from the HOTAS. What are you having the most trouble with?

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On 12/10/2020 at 10:07 PM, Ziptie said:

As for operating the RDR ATTK display, with TDC priority assigned, you can change the range by 'bumping' the cursor out and then back inside the dugout (top for increase range and bottom for decrease range) and bar scan by moving the cursor over those items and then TDC depress with TDC over the desired setting...

 

...Which is an absolute pain and slower than actually reaching up and physically tagging the buttons. 🙂

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As for A2A, a Cessna 172 can easily shoot me down. I'm just not a fighter jock in the Hornet. But if something on the ground needs some death from above, you can run but you can't hide.

 

I have three TM MFD's and I love them. Most of the things I need to do, I know by rote memory so I only look in the cockpit to see their output. Then I just reach to just under my monitor and punch the button(s) I need. Since I don't have a UFC, I have to use the mouse to get that. Autopilot, laser codes, changing radio freqs, etc.

 

However, the only problem I have is the laser trigger when launching LGB's. That thing keeps turning off and I have to look down to find the switch and turn it back on. That, my friends, is a pain!

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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40 minutes ago, =Mac= said:

As for A2A, a Cessna 172 can easily shoot me down. I'm just not a fighter jock in the Hornet. But if something on the ground needs some death from above, you can run but you can't hide.

 

I have three TM MFD's and I love them. Most of the things I need to do, I know by rote memory so I only look in the cockpit to see their output. Then I just reach to just under my monitor and punch the button(s) I need. Since I don't have a UFC, I have to use the mouse to get that. Autopilot, laser codes, changing radio freqs, etc.

 

However, the only problem I have is the laser trigger when launching LGB's. That thing keeps turning off and I have to look down to find the switch and turn it back on. That, my friends, is a pain!

I've bound the laser trigger on a spring loaded toggle switch on my throttle, helps a lot. You can also bind it to a key on the keyboard.

 

As for the UFC, I use the numpad for 0-9, CLR, ENT, the Home, End, Del, PgUp, PgDown keys for the 5 selection buttons and the normal 7-Backspace keys for the A/P - ON/OFF buttons.

 

I recommend that you try some combos like that and see if you like it. It comes down to personal preference, but for me, I almost never touch the mouse after startup.

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10 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

...Which is an absolute pain and slower than actually reaching up and physically tagging the buttons. 🙂

 

I agree.  I have a TMWH, 3 TM Cougar MFD's, along with Buddybox(?) UFC, trackpad strapped to my leg, and a McLaren GT3 Fanatec wheel directly in front of me.  I have zero shortage of buttons for key binds and options.  Was simply suggesting something for the person who might be struggling with using the mouse to accomplish things 🤙

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

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On 12/13/2020 at 4:53 PM, =Mac= said:

As for A2A, a Cessna 172 can easily shoot me down. I'm just not a fighter jock in the Hornet. But if something on the ground needs some death from above, you can run but you can't hide.

 

I have three TM MFD's and I love them. Most of the things I need to do, I know by rote memory so I only look in the cockpit to see their output. Then I just reach to just under my monitor and punch the button(s) I need. Since I don't have a UFC, I have to use the mouse to get that. Autopilot, laser codes, changing radio freqs, etc.

 

However, the only problem I have is the laser trigger when launching LGB's. That thing keeps turning off and I have to look down to find the switch and turn it back on. That, my friends, is a pain!

AFAIk the laser arm will turn off when you overfly the TGT designation, nothing to do with weapon release. If you were curious.

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On 12/9/2020 at 6:32 PM, amalahama said:

Welcome to real life buddy!

 

Actually far from true. The Hornet has many, many, many more HOTAS functions than what we have now in DCS. ED will implement them eventually.

 

So to OP: Although the Hornet's HOTAS will never be like the A10C, it is by no means as weak as the current DCS version. You'll have plenty to work with before needing a third arm.

 

 

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On 12/9/2020 at 7:46 PM, Desuetude said:

I agree, coming to the F18 after the A10. They say the second plane is always harder to learn but the A10 HOTAS just works so well!

It does, but it also has a pretty steep learning curve. There's a point when convenience gives way because I now have to memorize dozens of functions, many of which are situational. But that's just my take. For me the F-16 strikes the balance perfectly, intuitive without being cumbersome.


Edited by Wizard_03

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

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3 hours ago, Bearfoot said:

 

Could you share the setup? E.g., which trackpad? And how do you attach it to the strap?

 

 

No worries.

I use this:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BY9MGFT/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B08BY9MGFT&pd_rd_w=onIVx&pf_rd_p=7d37a48b-2b1a-4373-8c1a-bdcc5da66be9&pd_rd_wg=CBJwL&pf_rd_r=JJAPBDHSX3G2B5JFFYTW&pd_rd_r=b8eb41c5-75aa-4dc6-aa7b-11094973b396&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUzE0MVVKUlFJMTRQJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTkzMjE3MVNYSDRHQjEyUEYxTyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzYwODc4MkRTR1ozRDBPM0o2ViZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

However, there are other cheaper options out there - this for example:

https://www.amazon.com/Perixx-PERIPAD-501-Professional-Wired-Touchpad/dp/B001CX85I8/ref=pd_day0_1?pd_rd_w=xaeVJ&pf_rd_p=dd3b8aec-685a-456e-adb6-ba7e15960b39&pf_rd_r=JJAPBDHSX3G2B5JFFYTW&pd_rd_r=b8eb41c5-75aa-4dc6-aa7b-11094973b396&pd_rd_wg=CBJwL&pd_rd_i=B001CX85I8&psc=1
 

I think there is another one out there called Adesso (or something close to that) but it looked cheap compared to the Jelly.


I wasn't a fan of the size of the trackpad at first, thought it was a bit cumbersome - but I think it was just "new to me" and wasn't used to it.  Now, I'm not sure how I can even have gone as long as I did without it.


I'm considering getting this one, as it's wireless:

https://www.brydge.com/products/w-touch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA2uH-BRCCARIsAEeef3lt8WoctCnxhnBcJBcddr5qa_OAel-3zvVYloYTNksQFm-LG7U6KKoaAkDMEALw_wcB

 

I used some 'hot glue' and affixed a velcro strap to the back of the touch pad.  Then when I am not using if for flying - it still works for normal PC use (if desired).  I will recommend that you make sure to measure how much velcro you will need to wrap around your leg - I made the mistake the first time and didn't have enough.  It wasn't the most fun thing to get that glue off the back of the pad.  Also wasn't the worst thing in the world.  Hope that helps, or that I even answered your question to begin with.  If not, let me know what else you want to know and happy to help.


Cheers,

 

Ziptie


Edited by Ziptie
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i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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On 12/11/2020 at 5:07 AM, Ziptie said:

I use a trackpad that is strapped to my left leg which makes using the needed mouse functions much easier than reaching for the mouse (VR user).  As for operating the RDR ATTK display, with TDC priority assigned, you can change the range by 'bumping' the cursor out and then back inside the dugout (top for increase range and bottom for decrease range) and bar scan by moving the cursor over those items and then TDC depress with TDC over the desired setting.  I believe this is also supposed to work for the azimuth and other adjustable options but haven't checked to see if those are implemented as of yet.  As another stated, when WVR the ACM modes should achieve all needed functionality/lethality.  Also, LHAQ is a tremendously useful mode when getting to that critical 40nm range.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

Hey Ziptie, may I ask why as a VR user you need a trackpad?  I have just mapped LMB/RMB to my HOTAS and look directly at whatever control with which I want to interract using the VR cursor.  Not touched a mouse since I moved to VR.  Much quicker as there is now no longer any need to let go of the stick or throttle.

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On 12/15/2020 at 6:08 PM, Ziptie said:

 

No worries.

I use this:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BY9MGFT/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B08BY9MGFT&pd_rd_w=onIVx&pf_rd_p=7d37a48b-2b1a-4373-8c1a-bdcc5da66be9&pd_rd_wg=CBJwL&pf_rd_r=JJAPBDHSX3G2B5JFFYTW&pd_rd_r=b8eb41c5-75aa-4dc6-aa7b-11094973b396&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUzE0MVVKUlFJMTRQJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTkzMjE3MVNYSDRHQjEyUEYxTyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzYwODc4MkRTR1ozRDBPM0o2ViZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

However, there are other cheaper options out there - this for example:

https://www.amazon.com/Perixx-PERIPAD-501-Professional-Wired-Touchpad/dp/B001CX85I8/ref=pd_day0_1?pd_rd_w=xaeVJ&pf_rd_p=dd3b8aec-685a-456e-adb6-ba7e15960b39&pf_rd_r=JJAPBDHSX3G2B5JFFYTW&pd_rd_r=b8eb41c5-75aa-4dc6-aa7b-11094973b396&pd_rd_wg=CBJwL&pd_rd_i=B001CX85I8&psc=1
 

I think there is another one out there called Adesso (or something close to that) but it looked cheap compared to the Jelly.


I wasn't a fan of the size of the trackpad at first, thought it was a bit cumbersome - but I think it was just "new to me" and wasn't used to it.  Now, I'm not sure how I can even have gone as long as I did without it.


I'm considering getting this one, as it's wireless:

https://www.brydge.com/products/w-touch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA2uH-BRCCARIsAEeef3lt8WoctCnxhnBcJBcddr5qa_OAel-3zvVYloYTNksQFm-LG7U6KKoaAkDMEALw_wcB

 

I used some 'hot glue' and affixed a velcro strap to the back of the touch pad.  Then when I am not using if for flying - it still works for normal PC use (if desired).  I will recommend that you make sure to measure how much velcro you will need to wrap around your leg - I made the mistake the first time and didn't have enough.  It wasn't the most fun thing to get that glue off the back of the pad.  Also wasn't the worst thing in the world.  Hope that helps, or that I even answered your question to begin with.  If not, let me know what else you want to know and happy to help.


Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

 

Awesome! Thanks.

 

I use a left-hand roller ball mouse, but I think a trackpad would work a lot better. My mouse just sits on my lap for now (I had it velcroed to the side of my throttle when I used to have the TMWH, but with the WinWing it's too far away LOL). I think with a track pad I might need to secure it more strongly.

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