Who will win the race between the Mi-24 and the OH-58?

[kengou]

Hind will also carry a TON of rockets, and will be one of the fastest Helos we've had in DCS. Looks like fun.

[sublime]

On 12/9/2020 at 7:12 AM, kengou said:

Sorry to burst your expectations, but ED reps have mentioned the Hind will not be coming in 2020. They want to get the Mosquito out first. Even that probably won't be out in 2020 considering we haven't even seen any videos of it yet.

wat ? Theres a whole video from August or July where Wags flies around in a Hind and jumps seats too

[S.E.Bulba]

37 минут назад, Donglr сказал:

"The Mi-24P and Mi-24V have four underwing pylons for up to 12 anti-tank missiles." https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/hind/

 

Which is weird in its own way, as 12 missiles over four pylons makes 3 missiles/pylon And also contrary to

"9M114 Shturm (NATO: AT-6 Spiral) anti-tank missile, 2 missiles on each wingtip or outer hardpoint." (4*2=8) https://weaponsystems.net/system/300-Mil+Mi-24P

Цитата

 

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Приложение 1

 

Варианты боевого снаряжения вертолёта.

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[sublime]

39 minutes ago, kengou said:

Hind will also carry a TON of rockets, and will be one of the fastest Helos we've had in DCS. Looks like fun.

it does look a ton of fun. I wish DCS modelled splash damage better as itd immensely help rockets and bombs.  And we all know how the Sovs loved rockets... on Su25s, Mi24s, trucks... watever

3 minutes ago, S.E.Bulba said:

 

 

Id always read and watched in wings of the red star that having missiles on the inner pylons REALLY caused problems?

all im gonnna say is PC already stole my money before with the Gazelle they can %#@*%#()#%@ off with their OH58

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by sublime

[S.E.Bulba]

24 минуты назад, sublime сказал:

Id always read and watched in wings of the red star that having missiles on the inner pylons REALLY caused problems?

No, in the event that the pilot observed the appropriate restrictions and speed limits when launching rockets (but not ATGM). This has already been discussed.

 

 

Скрытый текст

 

Original in Russian

Нет, в том случае, если пилот соблюдал соответствующие ограничения и скоростные режимы при пуске НАР (но не ПТУР). Это уже обсуждалось.

 

[Rogue Trooper]

3 hours ago, Donglr said:

 

I got the Ka50 as it came out and the BS2 upgrade in 2012.  Finally, my first helo and the reason I picked up "Lock On: Modern Air Combat" years ago in the first place. and it should have been everything I dreamed of. Except it was not. Never felt at home with its Russian style of doing things, it never felt "complete" or thought thru, I could not see a concept. The helo itself that is, not the implementation by ED (which I consider alright).  I still flew it for an extended amount of time since it was the only modern combat helo available on the market.

I got the Huey and the Mi8 in 2013, they promised to be something different from the Ka50 and I guess I was secretly hoping they could fill the void in my heart the Ka50 was unable to fill.  The Huey was alright and is a handy tool for some quicky, no-nonsense logistics runs I like to do on multiplayer PvE servers. The Mi8 is a bit more elaborate, nicely made module but not as efficient when you just want to get things done. I actually flew it for some time in my squadron because it is simulated so nicely.  But in the end both are what they are: Transport helicopters with limited weapons capabilities and the capabilities they have never added anything to a battlefield the A10 or other jets couldn't do in a better way. So they are left in their transport/logistics niche which, at the end of the day, makes no impact given the way DCS is played on most servers.

I then got the Gazelle in 2017, again a different take on helos in DCS. Small, nimble, some modern avionics but nothing fancy, some guided weapons. It certainly has its deficits (not only the FM) but so far it comes closest to the way I would like to fly helos in DCS: a game of hide and seek, peek, reposition, peek again, fire, disappear. It is so nimble it gives me the feeling to be able to do this. But it is very limited in its firepower and weapons range. Again, an A10 could just do it better.

 

Now comes the Hind, a bird that does not do anything better than what I already have in my stable. It has a meager 4 guided missiles, a fixed gun and is heavy as fu**. The Ka50, even though it is lacking so much IMO, is far superior for combat operations. And if I want to do transport I have the Mi8, which is basically the same thing and will fly similarly. Hell, I can even fit unguided rockets and gun pods and I basically have a diet-Hind. So no, I don't see how the Hind does anything for me.

 

I just want a decent, modern attack helo, some (8+) guided weapons with range (hello Hellfire, not the sorry four HOTs of the Gazelle with 4km range), with good optics incl FLIR (not the sorry Shkval of the Ka50) and some reasonable defensive systems (hello Gazelle RWR, hello laser detector of the Ka50). But sadly the shop keeper keeps saying: sorry, no have.

 

I am with you here Dongir.

An agile attack chopper that is armed to the teeth, equipped with superb optics, night vision capability as well as instrumentation that will pick up invisible threats.

 

 

I will buy Both choppers regardless of being released together or apart, they will both be thoroughly learnt and used.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Rogue Trooper

[bart]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:12 PM, kengou said:

Sorry to burst your expectations, but ED reps have mentioned the Hind will not be coming in 2020. They want to get the Mosquito out first. Even that probably won't be out in 2020 considering we haven't even seen any videos of it yet.

Interesting. Where did you hear the Mosquito will be released before the Hind?

[Lucas_From_Hell]

The correct maximum amount is 8. Standard loadout if 4, a pair per wingtip, but the outermost wing pylons can also carry them.

[kengou]

1 hour ago, bart said:

Interesting. Where did you hear the Mosquito will be released before the Hind?

I've been searching for the post that says this but can't find it. I don't blame you if you choose not to believe me. But I absolutely remember reading it from an ED representative recently.

[bart]

35 minutes ago, kengou said:

I've been searching for the post that says this but can't find it. I don't blame you if you choose not to believe me. But I absolutely remember reading it from an ED representative recently.

No offence meant buddy, I'm actually looking forward to the Mosquito release and have been following any info on it, that's why I was surprised when I read your post. It was new news to me!. 

 

I was just half expecting the Hind to drop first as it seems the more complete module from what info has been released up until now. Either way I would be happy.

Edited December 10, 2020 by bart

[BaD CrC]

1 hour ago, kengou said:

I've been searching for the post that says this but can't find it. I don't blame you if you choose not to believe me. But I absolutely remember reading it from an ED representative recently.

Lol, I believe you kengou! Anything in development at ED that is NOT a chopper will come first. Even an old WWII bomber. After all these years, it feels like devs are working on choppers only on their free time. (Mi24 was announced way before all those F-xx and the update for the Ka50 BS3 also way before the A10C II). 

[WelshZeCorgi]

Not to soapbox, but lets not encourage a "race" mentality in a sim that already has a bunch of unfinished modules. Further cutting corners to beat other modules to the punch isn't gonna make happy customers.

[molevitch]

 

At 1 hour in, he discusses DCS Roadmap 2021..../

Edited December 10, 2020 by molevitch

[Rogue Trooper]

The Future of DCS Choppers is An agile attack chopper that is armed to the teeth, equipped with superb optics, night vision capability as well as instrumentation that will pick up invisible threats.

 

[SmukY]

On 12/9/2020 at 10:24 AM, Razorback said:

It seems highly unlikely that ED will release two helicopter modules in a short period of time.

The only problem I find that is ED only makes and will publish one helicopter ... and it's not the OH-58. To be honest I'm not that eager about OH-58 because by last demo videos flight model seemed to be quite arcadey like the DCS: Gazelle. For example, OH-58D was completely still in the hover even after launching 2 hellfire missiles (fun fact ... one missile weights around ~50kg and that's quite a number) and there was no weight shifting at all, that made me to completely lose any faith in the module. When I pointed that out in the stream many angry fans practically attacked me and told me it was just a work in progress. I don't know, maybe I do expect too much but the flight model is a base of everything - especially in helicopters, which practically beat air into the submission, thus making their flight model is a hard and delicate process.

It's also why I'm so interested in Mi-24, not only I am very big fan of it but now I have a full faith, especially after I saw what Belsimtek (now of course ED) is capable of and how delicate their rotary wing modules are.

Edited December 11, 2020 by SmukY

[Maverick24]

Hi,

 

In my opinion, the old pain with ED is coming up to light again. And that is a way of comunication to fan base. It´s better and better, that´s is a fact, but... At the begining of the year they post some kind of big word promises and then changing their states in silence during the year. We dont forget to our rotorwings fans or something like that. Result? We have updated cockpit of Ka-50, no matter how I like it (I fly with 50) I have to say is far from promises. Video from summer with Hind over Syria made me believe that we can have Hind till Christmas. Since that video we dont get any other information than We working on it and It will not be this year. No development report for a couple of months. Instead we have modules which was not in last new year post, statuses about XXth rocket for F-xx airplanes, etc. 

For a couple of last years I say, Oh my god, comunicate with comunity. It´s not about releasing date for Hind. It is about behavior to customers. Till fall we have every friday nice report what ED is working on, this format is kind of broken to a few facebook statuses, totally confusing. I have feell that if you point on anything you dont like, ED not answer it or stop talking at all. Why we have to finding informations somewhere deep in forums? Why ED dont step forward and dont say Ok, we are sorry, we know that we said this and this, but we are not gonna make it because.... As a customer I will happy for a more personal way of comunication to comunity. 

Somewhere in this section of forums I saw a nice post: ED working on the Hind only if they have nothing other to do. Totally seems like that. 

 

Jirka

 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Maverick24

[Razorback]

3 hours ago, SmukY said:

Maybe I do expect too much but the flight model is a base of everything - especially in helicopters, which practically beat air into the submission, thus making their flight model is a hard and delicate process.

I totally agree with you !

And that's why I really enjoy flying with the Mi-8MTV2.

During several years I had my Helicopter Private Pilot Licence (HPPL) on Robinson 22 and for me, even if of course the Hip is a totally different beast, the Mi-8 has the best flight model in DCS.

I'm not going to say that everything is perfect but at least a sign suggesting that the flight model of the Mi-24 will be as realistic as possible...

My Mi-24 simpit is now nearly totally finished and I am waiting the release of the Hind by flying with the Mi-8MTV2.

I just hope to see a release before Apr 21

Edited December 11, 2020 by Razorback

[Lurker]

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what is the range of those guided missiles the Hind carries? 

[golani79]

I don´t care who wins the race - I´ll only get the Mi-24 anyways.

Was kinda disappointed with the Gazelle so not getting any further modules from PC for now.

[Razorback]

59 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what is the range of those guided missiles the Hind carries? 

Depends on the version of the Shturm 9M114, but in general between 5 to 7 Km

[S.E.Bulba]

1 час назад, Lurker сказал:

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what is the range of those guided missiles the Hind carries? 

9M120 (9M120F) Ataka Missile (zid.ru).

[kotor633]

Hi at all,

i personally hope, that the iconic Mi-24 will come first. But only on the condition that the module is feature complete. And you don't have to wait months/years like the FA-18 or F-16.

But it also depends on what Polychop delivers...

[sublime]

On 12/10/2020 at 8:35 AM, S.E.Bulba said:

No, in the event that the pilot observed the appropriate restrictions and speed limits when launching rockets (but not ATGM). This has already been discussed.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

Original in Russian

Нет, в том случае, если пилот соблюдал соответствующие ограничения и скоростные режимы при пуске НАР (но не ПТУР). Это уже обсуждалось.

 

its easy to miss a lot of the stuff 'thats already been discussed' 

go easy bulba, I like you, at least what Ive read so far... I just was bringing up something i recalled; I didnt say I knew for a fact. (once again, like the hovering issue)

I suppose the V modification came out long after the Falangas had been replaced? I know the shturm was designed for the Mi24 but the Mi24 was ready pretty early and used falangas for awhile.

Also out of curiousity, if thats wrong about missiles on the interior - if you scroll up in this thread theres a classic armament/hardpoint pic of a Mi24. all the atgms are on outer pylons. even max load. ..?

also really curious if we will have R60s adaptions as an option.. otherwise, besides E germany, did the hinds ever have air to air missiles? i was stunned in the ka50 that the vikhr is supposed to be anti air as well. youd think theyd put a classsic heat seeker, even like an apache with a stinger having an igla option as a heat seeker is fire and forgret..

Edited December 11, 2020 by sublime

[S.E.Bulba]

8 минут назад, sublime сказал:

its easy to miss a lot of the stuff 'thats already been discussed' 

go easy bulba, I like you, at least what Ive read so far... I just was bringing up something i recalled; I didnt say I knew for a fact. (once again, like the hovering issue)

I just wanted to remind you once again. No problem. 
 

Скрытый текст

 

Original in Russian

 

Я просто хотел лишний раз напомнить Вам. Без проблем. 

 

[sublime]

3 minutes ago, S.E.Bulba said:

I just wanted to remind you once again. No problem. 
 

  Hide contents

 

Original in Russian

 

Я просто хотел лишний раз напомнить Вам. Без проблем. 

 

your much more informed than I and also I dont even dare wade into the russian forum, so I just ask for some patience. I dont claim to be an authority on the mi24 or even modern russian planes. most of my life this stuff was secret or rumor, and they were the 'bad guys' as I was a cold war child to a USAF F4 WSO in Germany...

however they always looked dead on what a attack helo should look like to me. Over time the Ah1s looks have grown on me, but the Hind (after the A) has always made me drool. what a beast. its sexy but.. looks like a dinosaur or alien.  the A my god what a ugly helo.

Anyways I was just saying, I dont wanna make enemies of eachother, as Ive read many of your posts and generally agree with you and appreciate what you bring to the forum.

unlike this guy pr*bad who got me banned YEARS for starting an argument, introducing cuss words, THEN REPORTING ME WHEN I RESPOND IN KIND. Sigh.

Edited December 11, 2020 by sublime