Who will win the race between the Mi-24 and the OH-58?

[Razorback]

It has been known for several months now that both Mi24 and OH-58 will not finally be released in 2020 as announced but more than likely in the first half of 2021.

But the dates for the launch of both modules are still far from being clearly determined.

Many people are now asking that it would be better to have a well-finished module, even if it comes later, rather than a module that has been made available but still contains a lot of problems. I believe that these people are right and I agree with them on this point.

 

Now the question arises: which module between the Mi-24 and OH-58 will be available first?

For me the question is not insignificant.
It seems highly unlikely that ED will release two helicopter modules in a short period of time.
Most of us would make a choice for one of the two machines rather than taking the two helicopters if they were available several months apart.
So my fear is that the release of one of these two helicopters will be delayed much further in time than we are led to believe?
There is undoubtedly a small competition between the studios of Belsimtek/ED and Polyschop and it is difficult to determine which module will be the first in 2021 (I did not dare to mark 2022)...

One thing is certain, in its coming New Year's newsletter, ED will show us once again that it does not forget the "rotorheads", as mentioned for 2020 (Zero release), let's hope that this time it will be a reality... Let's keep our fingers crossed!

 

[unknown]

That's an easy answer for me: Mil Mi 24P Hind 

 

But this is only based on my personal preference, i'm not much interested in the OH-58 and will wait for several reviews of the FM/DM(+ Gazelle update) before considering to buy it. So, if the OH-58 is released before the Mi-24 i will just wait for the Mi-24 release, there is no competition for me on these two modules.

[molevitch]

I would expect ED to favour the release of their in-house produced module of the Mi-24, over the release of a 3rd party module, purely from a brand marketing perspective.

Plus, I want the Mi-24, not the OH-58D!

[Kerberos]

1 hour ago, unknown said:

That's an easy answer for me: Mil Mi 24P Hind 

 

But this is only based on my personal preference, i'm not much interested in the OH-58 and will wait for several reviews of the FM/DM(+ Gazelle update) before considering to buy it. So, if the OH-58 is released before the Mi-24 i will just wait for the Mi-24 release, there is no competition for me on these two modules.

 

For all of us with a Mi-24 as an avatar the choice is an easy one

[Razorback]

1 hour ago, molevitch said:

Plus, I want the Mi-24, not the OH-58D!

That's my boy !

[Volator]

1 hour ago, Razorback said:

Now the question arises: which module between the Mi-24 and OH-58 will be available first?

For me the question is not insignificant.
It seems highly unlikely that ED will release two helicopter modules in a short period of time.
Most of us would make a choice for one of the two machines rather than taking the two helicopters if they were available several months apart.
So my fear is that the release of one of these two helicopters will be delayed much further in time than we are led to believe?
There is undoubtedly a small competition between the studios of Belsimtek/ED and Polyschop and it is difficult to determine which module will be the first in 2021 (I did not dare to mark 2022)...

I'm not sure whether a majority of users is like "I'm gonna buy the next helicopter, no matter which one, but not two of them". There is a big faction of buyers that is probably interested in one module, but not the other, for the aircraft or faction it represents per se. And then there's a group of people who virtually buy everything because they are collectors, or want to support ED and other devs.

 

I'm all for the KW, but the collector in me will probably force me to by the Hind as well. And I want to support ED.

[Razorback]

Since my first day on "Lock On", I dreamed of being able to fly with the Hind's module !

For sure since I am waiting with other modules like the the Ka-50, the Mi-8MTV2 and other aircraft but I but I think the OH-80 has some nice features and I'm convinced that I could also be seduced by its glass-cockpit, its night-time capabilities and its modern weaponry.

But at the end : Hind all the way !!

[Dangerzone]

All I know is that the OH-58 has had an announcement that they will NOT be releasing in 2020 now. I don't think we've heard any updates on the Mi-24 (which last I heard was late 2020?), which leaves me hoping that at least it may be available for a Christmas present, so my hopeful guess is that the Hind will win the race.

 

But for me - I will hands down be buying the first one released - Christmas present.  I won't be holding out for the next because I know that could be 6 days, 6 weeks, or quite possibly 6 months away before the next is released. The only thing with certainty will be when it is available - so I'll most likely be taking my chances with the first one released and spending the next 6 months being entertained with that. If/when the next one comes out - I'll wait for a special for that one as the first one I buy keeps me entertained.

[WinterH]

My current completely unfounded and random prediction is Mi-24 in feb-march, and OH-58 in April-ish.

I am more interested in Mi-24 myself, been way too iconic for me personally since I was a teen. But for people who want more advanced systems and weapons (even if arguably less of them), I guess OH-58 will be more interesting. I will eventually get them both, but Hind first for me personally! Looking forward to getting two new very cool choppers after us rotorheads go through a module drought for so long!

 

Probably though, most users will get them both in the end. They are both quite iconic in their own ways even for non-helo-nerds. And for helo-nerds like us, most will get them both probably.

Edited December 9, 2020 by WinterH

[kengou]

55 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

All I know is that the OH-58 has had an announcement that they will NOT be releasing in 2020 now. I don't think we've heard any updates on the Mi-24 (which last I heard was late 2020?), which leaves me hoping that at least it may be available for a Christmas present, so my hopeful guess is that the Hind will win the race.

 

But for me - I will hands down be buying the first one released - Christmas present.  I won't be holding out for the next because I know that could be 6 days, 6 weeks, or quite possibly 6 months away before the next is released. The only thing with certainty will be when it is available - so I'll most likely be taking my chances with the first one released and spending the next 6 months being entertained with that. If/when the next one comes out - I'll wait for a special for that one as the first one I buy keeps me entertained.

Sorry to burst your expectations, but ED reps have mentioned the Hind will not be coming in 2020. They want to get the Mosquito out first. Even that probably won't be out in 2020 considering we haven't even seen any videos of it yet.

[molevitch]

Mi-24 announced for release in Q1, 2021. In theory of course. But hopefully, by March, we will have had some teaser Youtube videos released, showing some functionality, systems etc. like they normally do in the run up to a release. I also believe they are planning a very finished and tested module. It does not have much in the way of electronics to model, no radar, no complex avionics, no glass cockpit. And a large chunk of systems are presumably transferrable from the Mi-8.

Anyway, it gives me time to finish wiring my pit....

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by molevitch

[bmbpdk]

I will buy the Hind, no doubt about it.
The Hind have something about it that no other helicopters have, something unique, something captivating, something hypnotising.

The Kiowa?
Only if i go serious multiplayer and join a squadron that requires it.

Im disappointed that we dont get the Hind before christmas, but i fully understand and respect why.
It would be better for them to wait until  summer or even late ´21 to releasing the Hind if that is what it takes.
Its ready when its ready.
Realistically i think we will get the Hind late ´21 or early ´22.
I dont want another "Viper launch".

[Lurker]

If by some miracle both modules are "finished" (or ready for early access) at the same time, then Eagle Dynamics makes the final choice which will be released first. However that's not exactly commonplace, I seriously doubt that Eagle Dynamics even shares the information with 3rd party developers on the development status of it's own modules since that would be a bad business practice. 

[Gierasimov]

4 hours ago, Razorback said:

It has been known for several months now that both Mi24 and OH-58 will not finally be released in 2020 as announced but more than likely in the first half of 2021.

But the dates for the launch of both modules are still far from being clearly determined.

Many people are now asking that it would be better to have a well-finished module, even if it comes later, rather than a module that has been made available but still contains a lot of problems. I believe that these people are right and I agree with them on this point.

 

Now the question arises: which module between the Mi-24 and OH-58 will be available first?

For me the question is not insignificant.
It seems highly unlikely that ED will release two helicopter modules in a short period of time.
Most of us would make a choice for one of the two machines rather than taking the two helicopters if they were available several months apart.
So my fear is that the release of one of these two helicopters will be delayed much further in time than we are led to believe?
There is undoubtedly a small competition between the studios of Belsimtek/ED and Polyschop and it is difficult to determine which module will be the first in 2021 (I did not dare to mark 2022)...

One thing is certain, in its coming New Year's newsletter, ED will show us once again that it does not forget the "rotorheads", as mentioned for 2020 (Zero release), let's hope that this time it will be a reality... Let's keep our fingers crossed!

 

 

I think releasing the one does not stop anybody from releasing the other. If ED is ready before the 3rd party, they will release, if the 3rd party submits their project for release AND it is solid before Hind, then ED will NOT stop that release. 

[kengou]

The Kiowa sure looks great, no doubt, and Hellfires are going to be amazing. That said, a light scout helicopter designed to work in concert with other forces doesn't seem to fit that well with my singleplayer DCS experience. Really looks like it fits best in multiplayer, with multiple helicopters, and multicrew. The Hind on the other hand seems to fit well with various cold war gone hot scenarios and should be fun for single players, since the pilot does most of the work. Plus that wing and transport capability will make it pretty unique as attack helos go.

[BaD CrC]

I don't think there is a race between PC and ED. PC was planning to release the 58D end of this year. I don't think ED made such statement for the 24. So it would make sense that the 58 will be ready before the 24. Now what could make the difference is that PC claims that their module will be in release state while it is not impossible that ED will release the 24 the same way they did with the 18 and the 16, vastly unfinished with many systems and weapons added as the patches were released month after month. 

I agree that the OH-58D will probably make more sense in a structured RW squadron (like BlackSharkDen.com !) were it is possible to have a cooperation between AH and OH, as well as OH and A10C (lasing). Mi24 will be more popular to people playing SP and those who enjoy shooting stuff up. Of course, no doubt it will be a big hit among squadrons in MP.

For me, I will certainly buy both modules, even if they are available at the same time. And if the multicrew is available, probably several licenses in order to play on my DCS computers. Helicopters modules are so rare (a ratio of roughly 10 FW for 1 RW) that I will not have to make a choice. Of course, the fact that I don't fly any FW module (too easy and boring) help my wallet.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by BaD CrC

[Mars Exulte]

Dev time wise, the Hind will probably release first and have fewer issues because the nature of the helo is more conducive to single user play. The OH-58 is avionics wise more complex, and the additional crew are more critical to its central role so multi-crew functionality or AI is apt to be more important.

 

As for purchasing priority, there's only one right answer. Buy both.

[Frag]

I bought the Gazelle from Polychop and the quality/complexity of that thing was quite low. I will never buy from them again ... unless I read overwhelming reviews saying that they really turned their boat around.

 

I will be all in for the Hind  Even though I LOVE the OH-58, I will not buy it from that company.

 

 

[Donglr]

9 hours ago, Razorback said:

Since my first day on "Lock On", I dreamed of being able to fly with the Hind's module !  [...]

 

I actually only picked-up "Lock On" because I was looking for a helo sim but there was none around, so fixed-wing had to fill the gap. Ever since I have been waiting for a good, modern attack helo, i.e. the Apache but even 10+ years later nothing even at the horizon, only old junk, niche helos or other things I do not want to fly. The Hind for me falls to the category of "old junk" I have no interest in flying. I will wait to the Kiowa and some reviews on the FM and decide if that is something to fill the void but just looking at it makes me sigh - it looks like a duck's beak with a hump. Do I really want to fly that?

10+ years of DCS and still no helo which makes me feel adequately equipped for modern combat operation. I am not even asking for being combat effective compared to all the fast movers, I gave up on that long time ago. So far I have all the helos in DCS, but the Hind is the first one I will not buy.

[Dangerzone]

9 hours ago, kengou said:

Sorry to burst your expectations, but ED reps have mentioned the Hind will not be coming in 2020. They want to get the Mosquito out first. Even that probably won't be out in 2020 considering we haven't even seen any videos of it yet.

 

Bubble burst.  

 

Man - I really don't want to end up asking for 'another popular simulator just released this year by a operating system manufacturer' as a Christmas present instead. Family doesn't know what else to get me (and I don't know what to ask for)... either of these would have been the perfect solution. 

 

Still - better to be informed and aware than to live in ignorance. Thanks for the update!

[CoBlue]

 I'm just waiting for the Hind. Have 0 interest in Kiowa, coz of how Polly handled the Gazelle.

[Lurker]

11 hours ago, Donglr said:

 

I actually only picked-up "Lock On" because I was looking for a helo sim but there was none around, so fixed-wing had to fill the gap. Ever since I have been waiting for a good, modern attack helo, i.e. the Apache but even 10+ years later nothing even at the horizon, only old junk, niche helos or other things I do not want to fly. The Hind for me falls to the category of "old junk" I have no interest in flying. I will wait to the Kiowa and some reviews on the FM and decide if that is something to fill the void but just looking at it makes me sigh - it looks like a duck's beak with a hump. Do I really want to fly that?

10+ years of DCS and still no helo which makes me feel adequately equipped for modern combat operation. I am not even asking for being combat effective compared to all the fast movers, I gave up on that long time ago. So far I have all the helos in DCS, but the Hind is the first one I will not buy.

 

So you bought the Huey and the Hip (and the Gazelle apparently) but you consider the Hind to be "old junk", even though it's more combat capable than any helo we have had in DCS so far? (Apart from the Ka-50, which is an experimental copter anyway)

Edited December 10, 2020 by Lurker

[Donglr]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

So you bought the Huey and the Hip (and the Gazelle apparently) but you consider the Hind to be "old junk", even though it's more combat capable than any helo we have had in DCS so far? (Apart from the Ka-50, which is an experimental copter anyway)

 

I got the Ka50 as it came out and the BS2 upgrade in 2012.  Finally, my first helo and the reason I picked up "Lock On: Modern Air Combat" years ago in the first place. and it should have been everything I dreamed of. Except it was not. Never felt at home with its Russian style of doing things, it never felt "complete" or thought thru, I could not see a concept. The helo itself that is, not the implementation by ED (which I consider alright).  I still flew it for an extended amount of time since it was the only modern combat helo available on the market.

I got the Huey and the Mi8 in 2013, they promised to be something different from the Ka50 and I guess I was secretly hoping they could fill the void in my heart the Ka50 was unable to fill.  The Huey was alright and is a handy tool for some quicky, no-nonsense logistics runs I like to do on multiplayer PvE servers. The Mi8 is a bit more elaborate, nicely made module but not as efficient when you just want to get things done. I actually flew it for some time in my squadron because it is simulated so nicely.  But in the end both are what they are: Transport helicopters with limited weapons capabilities and the capabilities they have never added anything to a battlefield the A10 or other jets couldn't do in a better way. So they are left in their transport/logistics niche which, at the end of the day, makes no impact given the way DCS is played on most servers.

I then got the Gazelle in 2017, again a different take on helos in DCS. Small, nimble, some modern avionics but nothing fancy, some guided weapons. It certainly has its deficits (not only the FM) but so far it comes closest to the way I would like to fly helos in DCS: a game of hide and seek, peek, reposition, peek again, fire, disappear. It is so nimble it gives me the feeling to be able to do this. But it is very limited in its firepower and weapons range. Again, an A10 could just do it better.

 

Now comes the Hind, a bird that does not do anything better than what I already have in my stable. It has a meager 4 guided missiles, a fixed gun and is heavy as fu**. The Ka50, even though it is lacking so much IMO, is far superior for combat operations. And if I want to do transport I have the Mi8, which is basically the same thing and will fly similarly. Hell, I can even fit unguided rockets and gun pods and I basically have a diet-Hind. So no, I don't see how the Hind does anything for me.

 

I just want a decent, modern attack helo, some (8+) guided weapons with range (hello Hellfire, not the sorry four HOTs of the Gazelle with 4km range), with good optics incl FLIR (not the sorry Shkval of the Ka50) and some reasonable defensive systems (hello Gazelle RWR, hello laser detector of the Ka50). But sadly the shop keeper keeps saying: sorry, no have.

[S.E.Bulba]

1 час назад, Donglr сказал:

… It has a meager 4 guided missiles…

8.

[Donglr]

28 minutes ago, S.E.Bulba said:

8.

"The Mi-24P and Mi-24V have four underwing pylons for up to 12 anti-tank missiles." https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/hind/

 

Which is weird in its own way, as 12 missiles over four pylons makes 3 missiles/pylon And also contrary to

"9M114 Shturm (NATO: AT-6 Spiral) anti-tank missile, 2 missiles on each wingtip or outer hardpoint." (4*2=8) https://weaponsystems.net/system/300-Mil+Mi-24P