DCS WW2 - Nachtjagd vs Bomber Command - unique value proposition vs other WW2 simulations

[ZeKuss]

Dear Dev team,

 

I know its easier said than done and maybe already discussed topic, so please feel free to discard this one.

 

I think DCS by being initially a modern all weather radar driven plane simulator is in a unique position to propose a comprehensive WW2 night fighting experience which might result in a very balanced game experience both PVP & PVE.

 

You already have an engine capable of running air2air & ground2air radars, associated jamming, AA guns, AWACS, complex communications, all ammunition types etc... so i could see:

RAF Bomber command: Beaufighter, Mosquito, Lancaster (Bomber, Electronic warfare & target designator), Home chain radar, GCI

NachtJagd: BF/ME110, JU88, ME109, FW190, Freya, Würzburg, AA, Himmelbett cells, Schrage Musik 

 

Scenarios could be quite varied, both side could play offensively as intruder for luftwaffe, massive raid for RAF, could be a great online experience with massive A.I. driven raids where players could play cat & mouse in lighter fighters assisted by both side Ground Directed Interception capabilities and relaying on their own radar in the final. Also could be a quite visual & sound experience where fighter would try to find target by search lights, hoovering looking for shallow silhouette above ablaze grounds etc...

 

Well just food for thoughts, let me know guys what you think.

 

Cheers 

 

[JHAT]

I personally would love that. I remember „Target for Tonight“ being developed so long ago. Unfortunately it never got completed (wasn‘t a commercial sim, was being done voluntarily from scratch). 

 

But for me the question is, how many others would also buy this to make this commercially viable at DCS level. Not even considering everything ED‘s got their hands tied up with already.

 

Imagine the type of gameplay needed to get a good experience out of these types. I think that is also not everyone‘s cup of tea.
There will be no dogfighting, just following instructions and searching for your targets until you can acquire them yourself. Then you would follow your radar operators instructions until you find the target and destroy it (getting under it and blasting it away with your schräge Musik would be extremely cool though). Then go for the next target. And all this in the dark pretty much.

Normal engagements with single engine types without onboard radar: I don‘t see why it would be more appealing than what we have now.

You would need ground controllers (competent AI) and everyone flying pretty much alone with a radar operator (also competent AI). Multiplayer would also mean everyone flying alone with maybe a buddy as radar operator and hopefully a human ground controller. All this is already happening in SP and MP in DCS though, so technically not too far off.

Maybe some third party could pick the subject and do the Lancaster (as AI maybe viable), a late Mosquito NF variant, Ju 88G-6 and Bf 110G-4 (as AI maybe viable) as a start. All difficult and expensive aircraft to do human controlled though. Even if for two of them there is a base made by ED already. Those could be made controllable as fighters.

 

As much as I would love to see this, I don‘t see it happening. Too niche.

 

Edit: let alone the map needed to do this properly. Maybe we get a Western Germany / Luxemburg / Netherlands / Belgium map that could be used for this and late war WW2 (pretty much what we have now).

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by JHAT

[Mr_sukebe]

The first question is probably the level of realism that might be used.

From reading on the subject, I got the impression that the reality would be a LOT of flying around in the dark, typically finding nothing, but just occasionally running into a bomber.

Whilst that might appeal to some, as stated above, it's probably a seriously niche area.

 

Do remember that we can pretty much do the above now.

Setup a B17 formation at night, and try to intercept them with say an Anton, getting instructions from an AWACs.   I've not see a mission replicating this, which might tell you something.

 

I'm assuming that there's a LOT more appeal to being able to find a bomber formation in daylight and have a serious A2A scrap.

 

 

 

 

[ZeKuss]

Thx for your replies.

 

Well in term of these being niche I think it s also mainly unknown, i m sure many would be interested by flying on or against mosquitos, beaufighters, me110, ju88, He-219, wild sau radar equipped FW190s or 2 seater ME262 in skies shattered by flak, searsh light, ground fire lights or indeed a more quiet, dark slow hunt for bomber formations or fighters.

as for realism it was actually the case in daylight too where most of the sorties ended with nothing down, just look  at Hartmann itself.
So anyhow this a game and and things can be tune to keep this operational realism while creating conditions which favour engagements.

but yeah, i m aware it s a long shot, just wanted to share this and see if others are also looking for such experience

[Ala13_ManOWar]

It would definitely be so nice to have the possibility, anything done with a "DCS level" ends up being an interesting experience. Anyhow, as already said it's too niche and probably will not happen for now at least. The whole DCS thing is a bit niche on itself, I believe, so I guess ED should  keep it profitable or at least not wildly profitless in order to keep going on…

 

S!

Edited December 8, 2020 by Ala13_ManOWar

[Bozon]

As much as WWII night fighting is an interesting topic, I highly doubt this will translate into a good experience in DCS (or a computer sim in general).

 

Night interception was aided by radar, but in the end relied on visual contact with the enemy from a short range. What will happen on a computer screen is that this will depend on your screen brightness and gamma settings - either you will not see anything, or you will be able to see the target from as far as the AI radar can acquire the target. To have a good experience you will need a very careful graphics setting, screen settings, and lighting in the room you are sitting in.

 

I just think that this will not work very well on a computer sim.

 

[Retnek]

On 12/8/2020 at 9:57 AM, JHAT said:

I personally would love that. I remember „Target for Tonight“ being developed so long ago.

 

Same here, long ago.

 

Quote

As much as I would love to see this, I don‘t see it happening. Too niche.

You might be right, extra-niche "night bombing" in the already niche "WW2". But DCS would offer important infrastructure for this kind of operations not available in other simulations: radar, radio navigation, ECM etc pp - here some substantial environment would be good already. If DCS would develop war-birds like the Lancaster for MS-FS-2020, too, that would raise the numbers and revenues. Later some small adjustments and add-ons for DCS - voila, a dream came true!  

Edited December 11, 2020 by Retnek

[rkk01]

The 10 mins or so of terror over the sim target would be gripping - flak, searchlights, markers, bomb explosions, fires...

... but the maps would need to be large, with hours of disorienting night flying.  
 

Missions would need to be exceptionally well constructed to have all the right elements in place at the right time.  To get the visual impact and terror of time over the target area, each player would have to fly as a “solo mission”, but still be part of the overall bomber stream or shuttle raid - otherwise there wouldn’t be much going on over the target...

 

I’d buy - when there’s a Lanc, Mossie BIV / IX / XVI, Stirling or Halifax, Oboe, H2S, dynamic campaign, Uhu, 110, flyable 88...

 

oh and Fido to get me home on those East Anglian mornings