VR Hardware Benchmark late 2020 - Ryzen 2000/5000 - 1080ti vs 3080 vs 6800XT

[exil]

4 minutes ago, C3PO said:

So 3090 RTX for HP G2?

Well, raw performance wise the 6900XT should be the card to go. But with that problems right now, rather wait until there is a solution (it's not like it not playable. I was able to get SS @ 140% (Reverb G1) with shadows on high an had more or less stable 45 fps. Buuuut: it's unused potential of the card right now and therefor its too expensive.

 

If you don't want to wait, buy a 3090,yes. Also pretty beefy GPU if you have enough money though. 

2 minutes ago, Hiromachi said:

If you have too much money and want to sponsor a new car for Jensen Huang, thank feel free. 3080Ti coming in a month or two will be far better investment providing the same performance as 3090 for 500 $ less. 

And who knows... Maybe till release of the 3080ti, or the time you are really able to buy it, the AMD bug might be fixed. 

[C3PO]

4 minutes ago, Hiromachi said:

If you have too much money and want to sponsor a new car for Jensen Huang, thank feel free. 3080Ti coming in a month or two will be far better investment providing the same performance as 3090 for 500 $ less. 

 

Yes, I read about that ... problem is there will be delays for those too? I just ordered a 5900X / 32GB RAM / 3090RTX / 2TB M.2 drive ... and won't get it for another few weeks because of stock. Oh, and no sign whatsoever of G2s on the horizon either.

[C3PO]

Last AMD card I had was the ATI 9700 Pro ... got fed up with the lack of driver updates then so switched to nVidia in 2004 ... been with them ever since. Driver updates always been pretty good.

[exil]

6 minutes ago, C3PO said:

 

Yes, I read about that ... problem is there will be delays for those too? I just ordered a 5900X / 32GB RAM / 3090RTX / 2TB M.2 drive ... and won't get it for another few weeks because of stock. Oh, and no sign whatsoever of G2s on the horizon either.

Most definitely there will be delays and also an increased price. I don't see the 3080ti to be sold below 1200€ over here. The GPU market at the moment is completely out of control. 

21 minutes ago, otavio said:

 

I tried both available drivers with the same results.

Did you delete the drivers before reinstalling? 

[Hiromachi]

Well, I've just reinstalled driver to older one but mixed reality portal started having issues with Reverb so I'm reinstalling portal now. 

 

And no. Nvidia ain't perfect either. I have severe stutters on my 3080. Issue about stutters with Ampere is known to Nvidia for 2 months but still not solved. 

[otavio]

10 minutes ago, exil said:

Most definitely there will be delays and also an increased price. I don't see the 3080ti to be sold below 1200€ over here. The GPU market at the moment is completely out of control. 

Did you delete the drivers before reinstalling? 

 

Yes, I used DDU when switching from my old 1070, but not when switching between AMD drivers. Did that work for you?

[JayRoc]

18 minutes ago, C3PO said:

Last AMD card I had was the ATI 9700 Pro ... got fed up with the lack of driver updates then so switched to nVidia in 2004 ... been with them ever since. Driver updates always been pretty good.

 

It's so funny...nvidia has problems since 451.xx starting last summer. 

And now amd has some problems half of the dudes come to the conclusion Amd is unbuyable. 

 

I got rid of my 3080 because its way more playable with a 6800xt.

 

Just my 2 cents, get what you think suits you better. But from the start of the cards, the amd drivers have been better. Shut off motion smoothing, it's not bad in any means. I like it more than the 3080 with motion smoothing. 

[Hiromachi]

24 minutes ago, JayRoc said:

And now amd has some problems half of the dudes come to the conclusion Amd is unbuyable. 

Literally everyone in this thread has issues with new AMD GPUs except for you. Also it is not some problems, its a matter of having pleasant experience. 

 

27 minutes ago, JayRoc said:

But from the start of the cards, the amd drivers have been better. Shut off motion smoothing, it's not bad in any means. I like it more than the 3080 with motion smoothing. 

It's not true. I just reverted to 20.11.3 and could not fire up my G2 at 90hz. Turns out such issues were reported couple weeks ago: https://community.amd.com/t5/drivers-software/hp-reverb-g2-windows-mixed-reality-not-working-with-rx-6800xt/td-p/427626 

After installing back 20.12.2 headset starts properly at 90 hz. 

 

Now motion smoothing might not be important for you or not bad for you, but it is very much for me. Like with Exil, smoothness of image (motion smoothing on AMD causes for me a slightly blurred image) on Nvidia, despite slightly lower FPS and higher frametimes was apparent. I can assure that this means a lot, especially in ww2 dogfights when you try to follow targets. Image has to be clear and smooth. 3080 provides both, although on my end I get occasional very heavy stutters (however those so far can be cured to the point I can keep flying and are acknowledged and worked on by Nvidia).

 

Tldr is that I could not confirm if motion smoothing / reprojection work properly on 20.11.3 because I couldnt launch headset at specific refresh rate. I also cant confirm your performance advantage unless I alt+tab the game. Which defeats the point of having such advantage since it cant be used.

 

Now moving on to other actions. I have received response from Valve and they basically told me that if issue is exclusive to DCS, than I should contact ED. They wanted to have none of it.
I checked  Il-2 Great Battles series and text warping and reprojection not holding properly to frametime are there too but far less pronounced, perhaps because it is a far less demanding game on a hardware level and so its not hard to hit 90 FPS and stay around 8 ms frametime. But issues with motion smoothing and incorrect GPU usage are exclusive to DCS. And I have no other games in VR to test them, so thats as far as I can go.

 

So I will keep bothering Valve about that since its their SteamVR. But I also asked Bignewy to forward input from this thread to ED devs and he said he did. GPU usage and motion smoothing, and perhaps other problems at this level, might need tweaks on ED side too. I did what Valve recommended. Finally, I've opened ticket on AMD support. But I dont expect any solution to those problems in the upcoming days (due to obvious period of the year) so I will be returning 6800XT next week. 

 

Point is that if you want GPU for VR, well, Nvidia is the way to go. On software side its better supported by companies like Valve or Oculus, and Nvidia control panel, as primitive as it is, has some features like max pre-rendered frames in VR which might be helpful. AMD had that feature some time ago but later it disappeared from drivers. And there are no other VR dedicated features in the Radeon Adrenalin driver. Raw performance gives AMD clear advantage, but due to above software issues (regardless who can fix them - DCS, SteamVR or AMD) I am going to stick to 3080 until I can get 3080Ti. It is a shame though because Asus 6800XT LC Strix I have is a fabulous GPU, it clocks nicely and runs very cool. I have not seen any Nvidia liquid cooled GPUs like this. 

 

On a sidenote. If you dont care about the curse called VR  than AMD is the way to go. Legends about better color reproduction are actually true. I checked that on my 4k 10 bit panel. Furthermore the sharpening slider in the driver actually works and takes almost no performance for a quite noticeable result. On a flat screen I enjoyed gaming on AMD from a visual perspective a lot more than on Nvidia 3080. Not to mention how many cool features AMD Adrenalin has, including built in overclocking tools, framerate limiter, system tray so user does not have to install additional software like Riva Tuner, Asus GPU Tweak or MSI Afterburner. Now AMD has to dedicate some time and resources to VR too. 

[exil]

1 hour ago, JayRoc said:

 

It's so funny...nvidia has problems since 451.xx starting last summer. 

And now amd has some problems half of the dudes come to the conclusion Amd is unbuyable. 

 

I got rid of my 3080 because its way more playable with a 6800xt.

 

Just my 2 cents, get what you think suits you better. But from the start of the cards, the amd drivers have been better. Shut off motion smoothing, it's not bad in any means. I like it more than the 3080 with motion smoothing. 

I'm not smashing AMD. The opposite is the case! I was really hoping for AMD to bring some competition in the GPU sector. And they did! The raw data indicates that they released a powerful card. Even on par with the 3090! Who would have thought that a couple of month ago. 

But since DCS is my primary game I can't bear to play it without motion smoothing. 

That being said, without motion smoothing the price/performance ratio isn't there (yet). Without proper motion smoothing I could turn up my settings just like an 2080ti would do. But that's just not enough for a new card. I really hope we'll see a fix for that. And when it's done, I will sell my 3090 and get an 6800XT.

But for now, I stick with Nvidia. 

[JayRoc]

Ok test THIS:

 

Open the SteamGame menu and go to the smoothing option, turn it to auto and set force dx11 on and directly afterwards off again!

I went there to check setting because i wanted to benchmark adrenalin 12.1 and 12.2 and i got the same artefacts you guys described.

After i switched the force DX11 on and off the artifacts where gone and the image was considerably sharper...dont ask me why.

 

The framerate got locked at 45fps.

And now the whole not 100% usage GPU thing makes sense aswell. SteamVR doesnt hit the 90fps so it it goes to 45fps and motion smoothing.

The card doesnt need 100% usage to hit the 45fps so the usage varies a lot. Its all working fine.5

 

The reprojection just worked as it should.

 

And if you force DX11 Mode you wont have the different framerates with the focused and defocused DCS windows!

 

The option is here:

 

Curious if it works the same on your cards!

For me the problems seem def to be with Steam VR.

I run SteamVR and WMR for SteamVR in beta.

Edited December 29, 2020 by JayRoc

[otavio]

7 minutes ago, JayRoc said:

Ok test THIS:

 

Open the SteamGame menu and go to the smoothing option, turn it to auto and set force dx11 on and directly afterwards off again!

I went there to check setting because i wanted to benchmark adrenalin 12.1 and 12.2 and i got the same artefacts you guys described.

After i switched the force DX11 on and off the artifacts where gone and the image was considerably sharper...dont ask me why.

 

The framerate got locked at 45fps.

(Settings are not the standard VR ones)

 

The reprojection just worked as it should.

 

Curious if it works the same on your cards!

For me the problems seem def to be with Steam VR.

I run SteamVR and WMR for SteamVR in beta.

This is what it looks like on my end. Whenever the game locks itself to 60fps for some reason it gets "stuttery" (Like when I turn my head around or do a roll the game just isn't fluid). How do I force dx11 on steamvr?

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by otavio

[Sr.]

Do you know how to force SteamVr to use DX11? stand alone version (non Steam)

[otavio]

Apparently with force dx11 enabled I don't get the reprojection bug, but the image is considerably blurrier. 

 

Edit: So, after doing some reading I might have figured out what's the issue. When you force dx11 mode to "off" it uses a gpu-based reprojection, so I guess AMD's drivers are bugged whenever steamvr wants reprojection. Weird part though, I didn't have any issues with Star Wars Squadrons, reprojection there worked fine.

Edited December 29, 2020 by otavio

[Hiromachi]

43 minutes ago, otavio said:

This is what it looks like on my end. Whenever the game locks itself to 60fps for some reason it gets "stuttery" (Like when I turn my head around or do a roll the game just isn't fluid). How do I force dx11 on steamvr?

Yup, exactly the same way I have it. FPS seems to lock itself to 60 or around 60 and it fluctuates but despite it being so high, image is not smooth. Only at 45 FPS when reprojection works, it is smooth.

 

Anyway, I will test it tomorrow since I have to put 6800XT back into case. It's definitely worth trying. Also wouldn't surprise me if it was SteamVR thing. Valve has neglected both Nvidia and AMD launches this year.

 

However regarding usage, thing is that we did tests with Exil with reprojection off to measure pure output. And more importantly, the difference was when window was out of focus vs in focus, as than GPU usage in former case increased for DCS app. 

[JayRoc]

18 minutes ago, otavio said:

Apparently with force dx11 enabled I don't get the reprojection bug, but the image is considerably blurrier. 

 

Edit: So, after doing some reading I might have figured out what's the issue. When you force dx11 mode to "off" it uses a gpu-based reprojection, so I guess AMD's drivers are bugged whenever steamvr wants reprojection. Weird part though, I didn't have any issues with Star Wars Squadrons, reprojection there worked fine.

 

I tried every setting, i couldnt see a difference in image quality neither at 76% nor 100% SS in Steam. But when i changed options on my post above the image seemed sharper.

Maybe there is another bug like the blurry text and force "on-off" aswell?

For me it sounds as the DCS Devs have to get into this, even if the problem is not theirs, i guess they have better chances to get Valve or AMD involved.

 

46 minutes ago, Sr. said:

Do you know how to force SteamVr to use DX11? stand alone version (non Steam)

Look above, i added a picture where to find the option

That is the Steam menu you can open with your VR controllers.

 

50 minutes ago, otavio said:

This is what it looks like on my end. Whenever the game locks itself to 60fps for some reason it gets "stuttery" (Like when I turn my head around or do a roll the game just isn't fluid). How do I force dx11 on steamvr?

 

When do you get this 60fps lock? Couldnt experience that yet.

[otavio]

Just now, JayRoc said:

 

 

When do you get this 60fps lock? Couldnt experience that yet.

 

Whenever the game fluctuates above 45 fps, it seems to lock itself to 60 fps and then the stutters begin.

[JayRoc]

Does it do that when out of focus aswell?

 

JFYI:

 

Not sure if legacy repro does anything for WMR, but ForceDisableDX11 uses the CPU to do reprojection, whereas if its set to false WMR uses the "new" GPU-based reprojection. If your game is GPU-bound, you might get smoother reprojection using the old CPU-based method, and vice versa if your game is CPU-bound.

 

So the force off would be better for us anyways, since we usually have a lot of free CPU cores which just idle and can take the load from the grafics card!?

Edited December 29, 2020 by JayRoc

[otavio]

3 minutes ago, JayRoc said:

Does it do that when out of focus aswell?

 

JFYI:

 

Not sure if legacy repro does anything for WMR, but ForceDisableDX11 uses the CPU to do reprojection, whereas if its set to false WMR uses the "new" GPU-based reprojection. If your game is GPU-bound, you might get smoother reprojection using the old CPU-based method, and vice versa if your game is CPU-bound.

I tried that but the image is considerably blurrier with cpu-based reprojection. When the game is out of focus I don't get the constant "red" and "green" spikes on steamvr's graph and the game is considerably smooother. An interesting find is that with 250% steamvr ss and msaa turned off reprojection works fine, but then if I turn it on, it gets bugged again.

 

[Sr.]

I don't seem to have that icon/option

 

 

[JayRoc]

Use the Vive icon, which sits in the same place.

@Reprojection issues: The image quality of the SteamVR non beta is way better with less graphics artefacts!

 

So i would reccomend two options:

 

1. If you want to play with reprojection (smoother gameplay):

 

- go for non beta SteamVR

- dont use the force DX11 option

 

2. If you dont want to use reprojection (better image quality)

 

- use the force DX11 option (increases frames in DCS for some reason)

- SteamVR beta works fine

Edited December 29, 2020 by JayRoc

[otavio]

Now I know for sure it's something wrong with SteamVR because I got the same locked 60fps behavior in IL-2. Also if I focus on a different window the stuttering stops.

Edited December 29, 2020 by otavio

[exil]

6 hours ago, otavio said:

Now I know for sure it's something wrong with SteamVR because I got the same locked 60fps behavior in IL-2. Also if I focus on a different window the stuttering stops.

 

This is the info I needed! Thanks a lot! I strongly hope and believe AMD will fix it with an driver update. We should all contact the AMD and Vive support. The more people address this, the more likely they will investigate. 

 

Once this thing is fixed, there is no reason to buy Nvidia anymore (unless you need it for other games). Then the 6800XT will be the most bang for buck. Benchmarks above indicate that even with a 6900XT you won't get more out of DCS. 

 

@ all: Thank you guys for having kept investigating!

[C3PO]

Fear not friends. We have the GPU for the G2 coming in '21:

 

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/76967/nvidias-next-gen-ad102-gpu-rtx-4090-twice-as-fast-the-3090/index.html

[JayRoc]

37 minutes ago, exil said:

Benchmarks above indicate that even with a 6900XT you won't get more out of DCS. 

 

That really depends on settings and resolution you drive! We will add the 6900XT later this week. 

[exil]

5 minutes ago, JayRoc said:

 

That really depends on settings and resolution you drive! We will add the 6900XT later this week. 

Check out my benches. Tried to reproduce you tests with the exact same resolution and settings. I was not able to get above the mentioned 70fps. And even if it would do, I believe the difference will be marginal and not worth the 350 extra bucks you are paying for the 6900XT. 

 

The only difference might be that I am not able to use SAM.