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The Flight Simming Hardware List - Opinions from Aurelius


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The Hardware List is being transferred to a new arXiv like format. (arXiv is the e-print repository for research conducted by many physical scientists)

 

More details to come in the following weeks and months. Stay tuned ....

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Aurelius
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One of the best ways to appreciate the beauty of the Multiverse is to learn the language in which it is written, ...... mathematics. 

i9-10940X - ASUS ROG Rampage VI Extreme Omega - 64 GB 3600 MHz - Testing RTX 3090 and 6900 XT - VKB Kosmosima SCE - CH Franken Potato Pro Throttle - Slaw Viper RX V2 - Reverb G2

 

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Waiting for your considered analysis of the Brunner CLS-E

PC: 9980XE @ 64GB RAM /2080Ti, Samsung C49RG90

Joystick bases: VKB GFIII, FSSB R3L, Brunner CLS-E, Virpil Mongoos CM2

Joystick grips: Realsimulator (F-18CGRH, F-16SGRH-CE), VKB (MCG Pro, F-14, KG-12), Virpil Warbrd

Throttles: Virpil CM2, Kantorrin,

Other: TrackIR, TM MFDx2 (Cubesim Screenx2), Virpil Control Panel 1

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Testing it now and should report on it shortly. Stay tuned, ....

One of the best ways to appreciate the beauty of the Multiverse is to learn the language in which it is written, ...... mathematics. 

i9-10940X - ASUS ROG Rampage VI Extreme Omega - 64 GB 3600 MHz - Testing RTX 3090 and 6900 XT - VKB Kosmosima SCE - CH Franken Potato Pro Throttle - Slaw Viper RX V2 - Reverb G2

 

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Here are the results for the new AMD RX 6900 XT compared to the Nvidia RTX 3090, 3080 and AMD 6800 XT. (I may add more results as the day progresses)

 

With DCS

 

Test Bench #1 - Intel 10900K (at 5.1 GHz) - Gigabyte Aorus Master Z490 - 64 GB Corsair Dominator - 1 TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus - HP Reverb G2

(Not important but using VKB Kosmosima Premium + Mark III Base, WinWing Super Taurus F-18 Throttle, Slaw RX Viper Version 1)

 

Using the RTX 3090 or the RTX 3080 or the RTX 2080 Ti or the RX 6900 XT or the RX 6800 XT

 

DCS In-game Settings - Everything set to high, except Visib Range set to Extreme, MSAA 2X, DOF, Lens Effect and Motion Blur all On, SSAA 2X, SSLR Off,  Clutter, Trees and Preload all 100%, Chimney 2, Gamma 1.8, AF 16X, Terrain Object Shadows On, Cockpit Ill On, Rain, Disable Aero and Full Screen enabled, VSync and Scale GUI disabled

 

(using fpsVR with SS set at 100% for the Reverb G2)

 

With the P51 Mustang at Batumi taxiing and then flying a pre-planned course over the city (this is one of the training missions) (All FPS are averaged)

 

3090 - 33 FPS

 

3080 - 29 FPS

 

2080 Ti - 23 FPS

 

6900 XT - 33 FPS

 

6800 XT - 30 FPS

 

With the F-18 Hornet Instant Mission Free Flight over Dubai -

 

3090 - 29 FPS

 

3080 - 26 FPS

 

2080 Ti - 19 FPS

 

6900 XT - 31 FPS

 

6800 XT - 26 FPS

 

Test Bench #2 - Ryzen 9 5950X (at 4.7 GHz) - Gigabyte Aorus Master X570 - 64 GB Corsair Vengeance - 1 TB Samsung 980 Pro (PCIe 4.0) - HP Reverb G2

(Same flight simming hardware)

Same array of graphics cards as above

 

Same in-game graphics settings as above

 

(using fpsVR with SS set at 100% for the Reverb G2)

 

With the P51 on the runway for take-off at Batumi

 

3090 - 34 FPS

 

3080 - 30 FPS

 

2080 Ti - 24 FPS

 

6900 XT - 36 FPS

 

6800 XT - 29 FPS

 

With F-18 Free Flight over Dubai

 

3090 - 30 FPS

 

3080 - 27 FPS

 

2080 Ti - 19 FPS

 

6900 XT - 32 FPS

 

6800 XT - 27 FPS

 

With Cyberpunk 2077

 

Test Bench #1 - Intel 10900K (5.1 GHz) - Gigabyte Aorus Master Z490 - 64 GB Corsair Dominator - 1 TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus

at 3840 x 2160 (with no ray tracing)(This is not final code and may change slightly by Dec 10th) (Averaged FPS)

 

3090 - 49 FPS

 

3080 - 42 FPS

 

2080 Ti - 29 FPS

 

6900 XT - 41 FPS

 

6800 XT - 36 FPS

 

Same resolution but with ray tracing (Rast DLSS-Q)

 

3090 - 75 FPS

 

3080 - 66 FPS

 

The 2080 Ti, 6900 XT and 6800 XT are not optimized for Cyberpunk's DLSS yet so I did not test them.

 

Quick Impressions - The AMD RX 6900 XT is a very strong selection if your main goal is VR flight simming with DCS (or IL2 GB, X-Plane 11). It does run slightly hotter than my EVGA RTX 3090 but its MSRP is $500 less. It also provides a slightly better visual experience in my Reverb G2 and G1 than the 3090. I will discuss why I believe this is so in the days ahead but overall, initial impressions are favorable. The 6900 is averaging about 8% slower than the 3090 when it comes FPS in major AAA titles (I have only tested three so far), but I suspect we will see that delta close in the months ahead. Because game developers have had time to optimize titles for Nvidia and DLSS, the 6900 XT is just not performing as well, .... yet. When I try to gaze in my crystal ball and look ahead to say, March or May, 2021, I can easily see the 3090 selling for $1400 while the 6900 XT sells for $950 and is only a few percent behind the 3090 in 2D gaming. In VR, I see both flagship cards battling it out with the winner uncertain. If you mainly use your GPU to fly in VR, the 6900 XT is a very strong prospect.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Aurelius
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One of the best ways to appreciate the beauty of the Multiverse is to learn the language in which it is written, ...... mathematics. 

i9-10940X - ASUS ROG Rampage VI Extreme Omega - 64 GB 3600 MHz - Testing RTX 3090 and 6900 XT - VKB Kosmosima SCE - CH Franken Potato Pro Throttle - Slaw Viper RX V2 - Reverb G2

 

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It is great to have this data and early enough so that we can pay attention to the release window today. The practice of lifting embargos simultaneously to opening the product to retail sales is infuriating. Albeit retail inventory is close to nothing for 6900 XT unfortunately. Thank you very much for this. (And not relevant to my interests, but interesting to see the winners podium position reversal on the latest AAA game).

 

While Ryzen 5000 and RTX 3080's are still very much supply constrained, RTX3090 are much less so. Retailers still charging scalper prices, but many of the less popular AIB brands are hanging around for days now unsold, and even NVidia Founders Edition 3090s took about four hours to sell out again when recently restocked in the UK at MSRP. The point / message being that in fixed supply situation like we are now in for high end PC components there can be massive price volatility. Most of it we are seeing at this stage is price escalation, but prices will fall equally quickly once the supply situation normalises and the most price insensitive consumers have walked away with their new purchases.

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Agree Simon. I can feel that cash just burning a hole in my pocket with all these releases before Christmas 🙂  

 

Not that plenty of other more intelligent simmers have not said the same, but I would urge caution until the real price wars get underway in Feb or March (or thereabouts). Right now, a high-end RTX 3090 is over $2100! Come March, .. who knows, ... might pick it up for only $1400. 

One of the best ways to appreciate the beauty of the Multiverse is to learn the language in which it is written, ...... mathematics. 

i9-10940X - ASUS ROG Rampage VI Extreme Omega - 64 GB 3600 MHz - Testing RTX 3090 and 6900 XT - VKB Kosmosima SCE - CH Franken Potato Pro Throttle - Slaw Viper RX V2 - Reverb G2

 

JayTheSkepticalEngineer.com

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@Aurelius

Thanks for sharing!

would it be possible to upload fpsVR frametime log records? meaning not histogram screenshots but csv files. thanks in advance


Edited by wju

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  • BIGNEWY changed the title to The Flight Simming Hardware List - Opinions from Aurelius

I have edited the title to be clearer this is Aurelius opinions on the hardware and not necessarily the same for all. 

 

Thanks

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Thanks BigNewy.

 

JayRoc and Wju, let me answer that at the end of work today.

One of the best ways to appreciate the beauty of the Multiverse is to learn the language in which it is written, ...... mathematics. 

i9-10940X - ASUS ROG Rampage VI Extreme Omega - 64 GB 3600 MHz - Testing RTX 3090 and 6900 XT - VKB Kosmosima SCE - CH Franken Potato Pro Throttle - Slaw Viper RX V2 - Reverb G2

 

JayTheSkepticalEngineer.com

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Thanks Aurelius.

I have discounted the 3090 and 6900 myself, the price of admission is just simply not worth the overall small gains compared to the 3080/6800.

 

So with this in mind what are your thoughts on GPU RAM use, is the 16GB VRAM of the 6800 worth it over the 3080's 10GB? (I am planning on getting a AMD 5600X so this might come into play.. or not depending on nvidia's next move.


Edited by Krupi
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I hope in the future ED will give more love to Nvidia users, because buying a GPU for just one title and not for a 360 degrees gaming usage it's a little bit uncomfortable and this time Ampere mixes power with very good techs such as RT,  DLSS and rasterization, while AMD new GPUs are great indeed but a little bit too much weak talking about RT management and DLSS it's still not a thing and it is a killer feature. 

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I7 8700K @ 4.9 ghz, SSD 850 evo, MSI Z370 Gaming Pro, GTX 1080Ti, F/A-18C in the garage, F-16C in the backyard, F-14B in the garden

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Realistically, RT is not worth the impact to FPS even on the latest Nvidia's cards. It looks amazing but without DLSS it kneecaps the FPS.

With the current gen I would only play single player games with RT on.

EDIT:

Is this with RAGE etc... tuned on Aurelius?


Edited by Krupi

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52 minutes ago, Krupi said:

Thanks Aurelius.

I have discounted the 3090 and 6900 myself, the price of admission is just simply not worth the overall small gains compared to the 3080/6800.

 

So with this in mind what are your thoughts on GPU RAM use, is the 16GB VRAM of the 6800 worth it over the 3080's 10GB? (I am planning on getting a AMD 5600X so this might come into play.. or not depending on nvidia's next move.

 

I read with interest Alec Deloran's thread about how he believed that the RTX 3090's huge VRAM allowed DCS to run much smoother. I have not looked into it as extensively as some but my off the cuff initial response with the blows I have seen traded by the RTX 3090 vs the RX 6900 XT is that relative difference in VRAM is making less than a 2% difference to DCS "smoothness" (think multiplayer map with the F14 over Syria), .... and that is the upper bound. Yes, it is important to have over 12 GB of VRAM, but beyond that, ... diminishing returns. Part of the reason I like the 6900 XT for DCS in VR is the "smoothness" of the rendering with less ghosting and slow spots than the RTX 3090. In a day or two, if I get time, I will try to define this "smoothness" in much more quantitative terms and what I believe is taking place in the rendering pipeline.


Edited by Aurelius

One of the best ways to appreciate the beauty of the Multiverse is to learn the language in which it is written, ...... mathematics. 

i9-10940X - ASUS ROG Rampage VI Extreme Omega - 64 GB 3600 MHz - Testing RTX 3090 and 6900 XT - VKB Kosmosima SCE - CH Franken Potato Pro Throttle - Slaw Viper RX V2 - Reverb G2

 

JayTheSkepticalEngineer.com

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44 minutes ago, Krupi said:

Thanks Aurelius.

I have discounted the 3090 and 6900 myself, the price of admission is just simply not worth the overall small gains compared to the 3080/6800.

 

So with this in mind what are your thoughts on GPU RAM use, is the 16GB VRAM of the 6800 worth it over the 3080's 10GB? (I am planning on getting a AMD 5600X so this might come into play.. or not depending on nvidia's next move.

Never mind... I can't find the link I was looking for.

 


Edited by Milou
Apols... wrong link.

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53 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

 

I read with interest Alec Deloran's thread about how he believed that the RTX 3090's huge VRAM allowed DCS to run much smoother. I have not looked into it as extensively as some but my off the cuff initial response with the blows I have seen traded by the RTX 3090 vs the RX 6900 XT is that relative difference in VRAM is making less than a 2% difference to DCS "smoothness" (think multiplayer map with the F14 over Syria), .... and that is the upper bound. Yes, it is important to have over 12 GB of VRAM, but beyond that, ... diminishing returns. Part of the reason I like the 6900 XT for DCS in VR is the "smoothness" of the rendering with less ghosting and slow spots than the RTX 3090. In a day or two, if I get time, I will try to define this "smoothness" in much more quantitative terms and what I believe is taking place in the rendering pipeline.

 

 

So you would avoid the 3080?

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RTX 3080

 

image.png

GPU Frametimes:
Median: 13.8 ms
99th percentile: 22.9 ms
99.9th percentile: 29.3 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 0.1%

 

RX 6800XT

 

image.png

GPU Frametimes:
Median: 12 ms
99th percentile: 17.8 ms
99.9th percentile: 19.1 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 9.3%

 

In the Benchmarks we ran to get the numbers neither of the AMD nor Nvidia ran out of RAM. If i remember correct there was just 6.9Gb used.

 

Its with the smaller graphics cards but from what i can read its excactly the same with the big ones. On the charts you can easily see that the frametimes are 

so much more consistent. In VR it feels so much smoother. Nvidia has to work a lot on their drivers if its not a chip design problem.

I read that they know about it and are working on it. But they have already problem in VR with their drivers a couple of month.


Edited by JayRoc
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15 hours ago, Aurelius said:

I read with interest Alec Deloran's thread about how he believed that the RTX 3090's huge VRAM allowed DCS to run much smoother. I have not looked into it as extensively as some but my off the cuff initial response with the blows I have seen traded by the RTX 3090 vs the RX 6900 XT is that relative difference in VRAM is making less than a 2% difference to DCS "smoothness" (think multiplayer map with the F14 over Syria), .... and that is the upper bound. Yes, it is important to have over 12 GB of VRAM, but beyond that, ... diminishing returns. Part of the reason I like the 6900 XT for DCS in VR is the "smoothness" of the rendering with less ghosting and slow spots than the RTX 3090. In a day or two, if I get time, I will try to define this "smoothness" in much more quantitative terms and what I believe is taking place in the rendering pipeline.


This is what i wrote: "I suspected DCS's VRAM usage for a while now for causing occasional framerate drops and stutters, especially in MP when switching aircrafts. Typical scenario was: entering the server, choosing an aircraft, play a while, choose another aircraft (F14 on carrier for instance) and bamm! VRAM overflow - huge FPS drop. Got my 3090 (24GB) today and this problem is gone. My good old 2080ti with 11GB wasn't enough."
That's not about believing, it's about long-term experience of DCS in huge MP missions with all modules available. It's an old issue of DCS's poor memory management. If you play the same online missions like i do in VR, you know what i'm talking about: switching to another aircraft, switching cameras to watch other players, switching to map back and forth... After playing for a while, what happens on a GPU with a "normal" amount of VRAM (let's take a 2080ti with 11GB) is that DCS still tries to load additional content (your next aircraft for instance) into VRAM but without purging content that isn't needed anymore. This leads to high frametimes and a phase of "stuttering" in VR, where your system struggles to shovel data between RAM, paging file, dedicated VRAM and shared VRAM. These operations are CPU bound and take their time until the system is able to reach a normal state again. Here is where 24GB of VRAM kick in. I never experienced this problem again on any server on any of those huge MP missions. DCS just shovels data like crazy into VRAM and RAM but it never brings my system down again. After playing for let's say 30 minutes, my system shows full use of 24GB VRAM and 32 GB of RAM. A short benchmark check will not reveal this, you have to actually play the game. Just choosing a simple Instant Mission for benchmarking will not say much, for real testing you have to go into the field: MP sandbox missions with a wide variety of available modules to choose from. These will put your whole system to a real test.
About "smoothness": i would say that reaching the same FPS in VR with MSAA at 4x, crazy high SS settings in SteamVR and maxed out graphics options compared to MSAA off and lower settings on a 2080ti means the game runs "smoother" now. I said nothing else.
Another benefit from having 24 GB GDDR6X VRAM on a 384-bit interface and game data on an SSD is super fast loading times. If i now switch to different aircrafts, they are loaded almost instantly, nice side effect...


Edited by Alec Delorean

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15 hours ago, Krupi said:

So you would avoid the 3080?

Basically, yes for now. If you don't need raytracing and only play DCS most of the time, 16GB VRAM and good rasterizing power for a lower prize is the better option. Until ED is upgrading DCS's core engine someday...


Edited by Alec Delorean
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On 12/8/2020 at 4:24 AM, JayRoc said:

With the 6800XT vs 3080 we had way better (absolutely mor consistent) frametimes. Did you compare those with the 3080 and 6900XT?

Which drivers did you use?

 

For the 3090, I used a beta version of 460.79 and 457.51

For the 6900 XT, I used a beta version of 20.12.1

 

Yes, the 6900 XT is better than the RTX 3080 in VR with DCS and IL2 Great Battles. In 2D gaming, it averages about ~4% better at 4K (although, I only tested this with three AAA titles).

On 12/8/2020 at 5:24 AM, wju said:

 

@Aurelius

Thanks for sharing!

would it be possible to upload fpsVR frametime log records? meaning not histogram screenshots but csv files. thanks in advance

 

Yes, I will be sending them to you later this morning once I get more coffee in my system.

One of the best ways to appreciate the beauty of the Multiverse is to learn the language in which it is written, ...... mathematics. 

i9-10940X - ASUS ROG Rampage VI Extreme Omega - 64 GB 3600 MHz - Testing RTX 3090 and 6900 XT - VKB Kosmosima SCE - CH Franken Potato Pro Throttle - Slaw Viper RX V2 - Reverb G2

 

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19 hours ago, Krupi said:

Thanks Aurelius.

I have discounted the 3090 and 6900 myself, the price of admission is just simply not worth the overall small gains compared to the 3080/6800.

 

So with this in mind what are your thoughts on GPU RAM use, is the 16GB VRAM of the 6800 worth it over the 3080's 10GB? (I am planning on getting a AMD 5600X so this might come into play.. or not depending on nvidia's next move.

 

With the so-so resource management, yes, I would say 16 GB is worth it. As to your other question about the RTX 3080, ... yes, I would avoid it. The 6800 XT or 6900 XT are worth it. I agree with Alec's opinion on the 3080.


Edited by Aurelius

One of the best ways to appreciate the beauty of the Multiverse is to learn the language in which it is written, ...... mathematics. 

i9-10940X - ASUS ROG Rampage VI Extreme Omega - 64 GB 3600 MHz - Testing RTX 3090 and 6900 XT - VKB Kosmosima SCE - CH Franken Potato Pro Throttle - Slaw Viper RX V2 - Reverb G2

 

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JayRoc, if I get the time I will detail why I believe we are seeing paradoxical results (your 6.9 GB observation and Alec's full load multiplayer scenario). Busy day today, .... will try to get to it later in the afternoon.

One of the best ways to appreciate the beauty of the Multiverse is to learn the language in which it is written, ...... mathematics. 

i9-10940X - ASUS ROG Rampage VI Extreme Omega - 64 GB 3600 MHz - Testing RTX 3090 and 6900 XT - VKB Kosmosima SCE - CH Franken Potato Pro Throttle - Slaw Viper RX V2 - Reverb G2

 

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I get his point. I just observed it not myself since i am mostly flying F16. But at this point i would reccoment a RX, but its very hard to get one...and a 3080 is way faster than a 2080ti.

It all depends on the situation and preferences. Right now i have my brothers 6800xt and he has my 3080 - since he has a pimax he can turn on fixed foveated rendering with the RTX and that makes the 3080 faster than the 6800xt. 

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Amazing post, as ever! That's an incredible amount of work, so thank you very much.

 

Can you confirm that the SSAA option you mention is the one from within the DCS gfx options screens If so, I have to ask, why are you setting SSAA 2X? That seems like a massive increase in resolution, effectively doubling the native res? Then you're chucking MSAA on top?

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