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[RESOLVED] Gun pipper inaccuracy?


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See trackfile. Or video, or both.. bullets are hitting way below the target point.

 

 

inaccurate gunpipper.trk


Edited by DanielNL

DCS Wishlist: Stinger fix (frustrating bug since 1+ year already...), TOR SAM selfdestruct-logic (revert to previous far more realistic behaviour. Since 6+ months already)

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@DanielNL the gun pipper may very well be inaccurate but this is a terrible demonstration if you're trying to provide evidence of a problem.

 

You're in a >45° dive, in RCIP (when radar altimeter is only valid +/- 45° attitude), with no target designation whatsoever (so the aircraft just thinks it's shooting at a target at whatever elevation your inaccurate radar altimeter is showing)...

 

Of course your pipper is inaccurate.

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@DanielNL i dont know what to say man, not sure how to approach this any other way than being honest with you. That was a terrible attack profile, from the slow speed to the clumsy roll in im not surprised you missed and had inaccurate fire.

 

Also anyone else want to tell me why people feel the need to always press the feckin CMBT button. Its an EMERGENCY system not ALL THE DANG TIME FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO BUTTON.

 

Daniel. Try that again but this time I want you to follow some steps

- starting alt is going to be 8000 ASL= TGT ALT @ 350kts and everything is set up and ready to go

 

extend to 10nm

point at tgt

maintain 350kt@8k+tgtalt

at 5nm ( left or right depending where threats are) i want you to offset 30 degrees off your heading

maintain 350kt@8k+tgtalt

when the target reaches the forward canopy from ( the round frame) it should be roughly 45 degrees off your L or R

roll in and put the pipper over the target in the shortest time possible and HOLD IT

maintain above 70% throttle to operate gun or whatever the density alt is

STAY ON TARGET 

you may notice that if you were trimmed out at 350kt you may be putting forward pressure on stick... good

once in range, simultaneously fire the gun and let the stick go neutral, then perform defensive maneuvers and extend.

 

 

Show me that this does not work for you and well take another look.

Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass.

 

— Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello

I am not sure what to say.

My bullets fall short all of the time.

I would like to see the pipper corrected a fiew mils down.

Do you realy think "once in range, simultaneously fire the gun and let the stick go neutral" is a good or real life procedure ???

This would let the nose come up and spray the bullets all over the place.

There might be some hits with the mayority of bullets in front or behind the target.

dont you agree ?

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+1 demonstration TGT slaved in DMT and radar alt on. Rounds should not be falling short. Flight Freeze is a perfect demonstration of mechanics also for MK82 ARBS logic.

 

wonder if gun falling short is same reason for ripple intervals being short from target when selected in ARBS.

 

hopefully will be addressed

 

also not sure what the CMBT press reference above is about. I hope satire.

 

thanks for the videos 


Edited by Shrike88
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

Any news here ?

Or is there a need for another video ?



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Ups!

Allmost every problem is marked as reported or investigating.

This one seems to be ignored.

Hopefully we did not upset someone here ?

Lukes Video shows the problem very clearly !

What else can we do ?

 

Regards, Markuscha

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DCS Wishlist: Stinger fix (frustrating bug since 1+ year already...), TOR SAM selfdestruct-logic (revert to previous far more realistic behaviour. Since 6+ months already)

canopy 6DOF tracking-limit (deny head-through-canopy), 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM

 basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a DCS pilot claims about another famous DCS pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence - that would only be bullheadedly
Dell Visor WMR, Ryzen 5 3600 (6C/12T), RX 580 8GB  - "5 years clean, came back because hornet" - a long-time DCS player on Discord - "How is the payment?" - forum user question about Razbam Dev group membership xD
PvP: 125+ hours AV-8B VTOL (denying low-to-medium airspace since 2020), JF-17 AKG-A2A, F-16C, F-14 pilot - PvP campaigns since 2013

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The same issue. Tested on Caucasus and Nevada with different dive angles, speeds, distances, target designation (yes/no). Bullets always fall below the gun pipper about in 10 meters in front of a target.

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DCS Wishlist: Stinger fix (frustrating bug since 1+ year already...), TOR SAM selfdestruct-logic (revert to previous far more realistic behaviour. Since 6+ months already)

canopy 6DOF tracking-limit (deny head-through-canopy), 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM

 basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a DCS pilot claims about another famous DCS pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence - that would only be bullheadedly
Dell Visor WMR, Ryzen 5 3600 (6C/12T), RX 580 8GB  - "5 years clean, came back because hornet" - a long-time DCS player on Discord - "How is the payment?" - forum user question about Razbam Dev group membership xD
PvP: 125+ hours AV-8B VTOL (denying low-to-medium airspace since 2020), JF-17 AKG-A2A, F-16C, F-14 pilot - PvP campaigns since 2013

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10 hours ago, SGT Coyle said:

You need to provide a track file. 

Negative, enough people already did in this thread ^^


Edited by DanielNL

DCS Wishlist: Stinger fix (frustrating bug since 1+ year already...), TOR SAM selfdestruct-logic (revert to previous far more realistic behaviour. Since 6+ months already)

canopy 6DOF tracking-limit (deny head-through-canopy), 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM

 basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a DCS pilot claims about another famous DCS pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence - that would only be bullheadedly
Dell Visor WMR, Ryzen 5 3600 (6C/12T), RX 580 8GB  - "5 years clean, came back because hornet" - a long-time DCS player on Discord - "How is the payment?" - forum user question about Razbam Dev group membership xD
PvP: 125+ hours AV-8B VTOL (denying low-to-medium airspace since 2020), JF-17 AKG-A2A, F-16C, F-14 pilot - PvP campaigns since 2013

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Please don’t this as an attack @RAZBAM_ELMO but I note it’s getting harder to report problems such as this. More and more I see that critical weapon employment and poor tactical observations are being used to circumnavigate the core issue the users post is trying to help fix. The time it took to write the correct gun employment it would have been quicker to actually load the module up and see for yourself that rounds are falling a little short – the problem is that posts like these end up getting marked up as [User Error] and moved to the resolved bugs section where further dialog with the team then stops, which is incredibly frustrating.

 

I know it’s frustrating for you guys as well, you’ve only got to be on these forums for a couple of weeks to realise how many duplicate posts there are with the same issue revisited time & time again – I suppose the manual once finished will help resolve this problem but until then can we show a little more willing to help people out please?

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well i have seen how A10 will employ their gun (like in a straigt line) to be able to hit the target.

what you expect from the gun pipper? this is not a sniper gun, so you are expected to spray and pray

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1 hour ago, Wisky said:

well i have seen how A10 will employ their gun (like in a straigt line) to be able to hit the target.

what you expect from the gun pipper? this is not a sniper gun, so you are expected to spray and pray

My understanding of the GAU-12 Equalizer is that it's actually a very accurate gun so yes, I expect it to perform as it should.

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Hi folks,

 

I think I found a possible solution to this (which likely breaks IC), line 11 of Mods/AV8BNA/Cockpit/HUD/indicator/AG/AG_Page_01.lua reads:

 

gun_boresight.controllers        = {{"hud_waterline", -1.2 * HUD_SCALE}}

 

I had a gut feeling that the 'hud_waterline' refers to the center X value of the boresight, and the second value is the Y.

By adjusting the number downwards, away from zero, appears to pull the pipper's boresight up and thus fixes this repeatable error in the gun pipper.

 

 

I have NOT done extensive testing, but a value of -1.45 gave me a MUCH more accurate pipper. Mileage may vary with speed, dive angle, who knows, I'd love if you guys could test this out. I've attached my file. Enjoy and please leave some feedback so I can further develop this fix if required.

 

I'm no lua expert but seeing the frankly crass attitude of RAZBAM towards this issue, I figured I'd take a stab at it. No offense meant to RAZBAM, the Harrier is by FAR my favorite jet in the game, but the issue is kind of annoying and it's been around too long IMO. And it's nice to have my favorite weapon, the Equalizer, somewhat back in order!

 

This should be on the user files soon if accepted under "GAU-12 pipper elevation fix v1".

 

AG_Page_01.lua


Edited by laertesson
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5 hours ago, laertesson said:

Hi folks,

 

I think I found a possible solution to this (which likely breaks IC), line 11 of Mods/AV8BNA/Cockpit/HUD/indicator/AG/AG_Page_01.lua reads:

 

gun_boresight.controllers        = {{"hud_waterline", -1.2 * HUD_SCALE}}

 

I had a gut feeling that the 'hud_waterline' refers to the center X value of the boresight, and the second value is the Y.

By adjusting the number downwards, away from zero, appears to pull the pipper's boresight up and thus fixes this repeatable error in the gun pipper.

 

 

I have NOT done extensive testing, but a value of -1.45 gave me a MUCH more accurate pipper. Mileage may vary with speed, dive angle, who knows, I'd love if you guys could test this out. I've attached my file. Enjoy and please leave some feedback so I can further develop this fix if required.

 

I'm no lua expert but seeing the frankly crass attitude of RAZBAM towards this issue, I figured I'd take a stab at it. No offense meant to RAZBAM, the Harrier is by FAR my favorite jet in the game, but the issue is kind of annoying and it's been around too long IMO. And it's nice to have my favorite weapon, the Equalizer, somewhat back in order!

 

This should be on the user files soon if accepted under "GAU-12 pipper elevation fix v1".

 

AG_Page_01.lua 3.23 kB · 2 downloads

 

I will pass this along to the team and see what they make of it

 

Have you tested with other weapons to see if this affects their accuracy as well?

Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass.

 

— Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.

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17 minutes ago, RAZBAM_ELMO said:

I will pass this along to the team and see what they make of it

 

Have you tested with other weapons to see if this affects their accuracy as well?

It doesn't seem like it will affect other profiles because they seem to be in different lua files. For example the file I edited is only for the gun HUD. Am doing some testing missions as I type this so will report back. Thank you for the quick response and forward Elmo.

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3 hours ago, laertesson said:

It doesn't seem like it will affect other profiles because they seem to be in different lua files. For example the file I edited is only for the gun HUD. Am doing some testing missions as I type this so will report back. Thank you for the quick response and forward Elmo.

I look forward to your results. Its not that this was being ignored or disregarded, rather it was people unable to prove with concrete  evidence in flight as TBH the attack profile were left to be desired but you have come forward with some very specific evidence to back up your claim. Up until now, neither myself or the dev team have found it to be in-accurate by any means but were always open to the possibility it may change or that it was changed during the recent switch to SVG format where the values of HUD locations may have in advertently been incorrect. I emplore you to investigate after the next OB patch to see if this is still occuring. MAke sure you use various ranges to substantiate your claims

 

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Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass.

 

— Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.

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  • RAZBAM_ELMO changed the title to [INVESTIGATING] Gun pipper inaccuracy?
11 minutes ago, RAZBAM_ELMO said:

I look forward to your results. Its not that this was being ignored or disregarded, rather it was people unable to prove with concrete  evidence in flight as TBH the attack profile were left to be desired but you have come forward with some very specific evidence to back up your claim. Up until now, neither myself or the dev team have found it to be in-accurate by any means but were always open to the possibility it may change or that it was changed during the recent switch to SVG format where the values of HUD locations may have in advertently been incorrect. I emplore you to investigate after the next OB patch to see if this is still occuring. MAke sure you use various ranges to substantiate your claims

 

After testing in a mission with a few different max ranges entered, basically the pipper behaves as it used to before the adjustment of the gunpod in one of these last patches. Rounds land closer to the center of the pipper consistently with my modification, but I definitely want to hear what others have to say.

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Quote

 

neither myself or the dev team have found it to be in-accurate by any means

 

This is surprising, especially with the video in the first post.


Edited by DanielNL

DCS Wishlist: Stinger fix (frustrating bug since 1+ year already...), TOR SAM selfdestruct-logic (revert to previous far more realistic behaviour. Since 6+ months already)

canopy 6DOF tracking-limit (deny head-through-canopy), 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM

 basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a DCS pilot claims about another famous DCS pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence - that would only be bullheadedly
Dell Visor WMR, Ryzen 5 3600 (6C/12T), RX 580 8GB  - "5 years clean, came back because hornet" - a long-time DCS player on Discord - "How is the payment?" - forum user question about Razbam Dev group membership xD
PvP: 125+ hours AV-8B VTOL (denying low-to-medium airspace since 2020), JF-17 AKG-A2A, F-16C, F-14 pilot - PvP campaigns since 2013

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3 hours ago, DanielNL said:

This is surprising, especially with the video in the first post.

 

 

+ multible tracks, none of which were deemed to be 'concrete evidence' 

13 hours ago, laertesson said:

This should be on the user files soon if accepted under "GAU-12 pipper elevation fix v1".

 

AG_Page_01.lua 3.23 kB · 2 downloads

 

 

Apprecaite your efforts laertesson but user fixes make me nervous, if we start doing the work of developers then where does it stop?!   


Edited by Dr Zaius
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  • RAZBAM_ELMO changed the title to [RESOLVED] Gun pipper inaccuracy?

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