DCS: F-15C Poll

[Furiz]

8 hours ago, bies said:

Even JA-37 Viggen, Gripen's predecessor, is impossible to model being classified, Heatblur tried.

 

Rafale will never be in DCS as full fidelity module. The heart of Rafale is strictly classified AESA radar and even more classified Spectra EW suite. ED stated EF is possible only because exEF pilot is making it - ED said they would never be able to negotiate the license.

 

Didnt they do the Viggen? or that's a made up module?

 

Yep I know Rafale is hard to do ofc, but I'm not asking for F4 variant or F3R for that matter,

Rafale F2 is from around 2008, AA and AG capable and was equipped with PESA rather than AESA radar which came in about 2012.

 

Anyway this thread is about F-15C

[WinterH]

4 minutes ago, Furiz said:

Didnt they do the Viggen? or that's a made up module?

We have AJS37, not the JA37D, Heatblur did consider adding it as an FC3 level bonus, but in the end it did not happen.

Rafale is very unlikely I'd say, but who knows.

 

I'd personally find seeing a DCS:F-15A to be a cool idea, but last few years we are clearly seeing the trend is "make the most modern possible even if some fudging is involved, it'll sell the most". So if we eventually get a full fidelity air-to-air Eagle, it'll probably be an F-15C with more features than the FC3 one we have now.

 

I for one see this as a very unnecessary addition. We are lacking a lot more things that could plug more gaps than making existing FC3 planes into full fidelity. Feeling similar about potentially upcoming MiG-29A as well.

[Northstar98]

On 6/9/2021 at 6:52 AM, Furiz said:

Didnt they do the Viggen? or that's a made up module?

 

They did, but like Winter said, we have the AJS 37, which is an early-to-mid 90s upgrade of the 70s AJ 37.

 

Apart from the addition of the more advanced reconnaissance modes (which is the S in AJS - for Spaning), RB 15F Mk. I (?), BK90, RB 74 U/22A, TERNAV and data cartridge, AFAIK, everything else is identical to the AJ 37, including the RADAR and RWR.

 

Heatblur were going to attempt a Gripen, but it shares stuff (not sure what exactly), with the JA 37 Mod. D (which is also post 2000s AFAIK) and couldn't due to classification.

 

Quote

Yep I know Rafale is hard to do ofc, but I'm not asking for F4 variant or F3R for that matter,

Rafale F2 is from around 2008, AA and AG capable and was equipped with PESA rather than AESA radar which came in about 2012.

 

It's still a phased array RADAR, and while the technology is known, it's entirely new technology in DCS - while we have RADARs that are phased arrays, they are modelled exactly like any other RADAR - the difference between the SNR-125 of the S-125 is modelled in exactly the same way as the AN/MPQ-53 of our Patriot PAC-2, just with different scan volumes and detection differences (pretty sure they have the same update rate too).

 

In any case I'm most interested in a mid 80s F-15A or C, but if one were to be considered, it will probably end up being a mid 2000s version with AN/APG-63(V)2, AIM-9X and AIM-120C-5.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Northstar98

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

If its from 95' its a big +1

[spacemishka]

i would prefere if ED would just imorove the low fidelity models

[Wizard_03]

Eurofighters getting closer, get your parachutes ready!...

[Exorcet]

Absolutely looking forward to the EF-2000, but it still can't replace the F-15C. It also wouldn't fit 70/80's as well as a 15A.

 

At some point we need a real Eagle in DCS.

[Wizard_03]

We'll need it to face the eurofighter dawn, that thing is about to change whole AA landscape of DCS.

[Exorcet]

I don't mind a challenge. Some people say 4th gen have it too easy, I look forward to trying to beat EF's in the teen series.

 

Though getting back to the Eagle itself, I actually think it's a good candidate for multiple version model like the L-39 or F-14. Unlike the Tomcat the Eagle had an advanced HUD from the beginning, limiting some of work in modeling different versions. The developer could focus more on different engines, and removing modes from newer models. I really disagree with the idea that the Eagle would be a slow seller. It's one of the most iconic fighters there is.

[Thunder_]

The answer is YES ! 

[kseremak]

12 hours ago, Exorcet said:

Though getting back to the Eagle itself, I actually think it's a good candidate for multiple version model like the L-39 or F-14. Unlike the Tomcat the Eagle had an advanced HUD from the beginning, limiting some of work in modeling different versions. The developer could focus more on different engines, and removing modes from newer models. I really disagree with the idea that the Eagle would be a slow seller. It's one of the most iconic fighters there is.

 

I would like to recreate all of this 104:0. From F-15A in Lebanon war '79-'82, Beqaa valley, Mole cricket untill F-15C in a Gulf War Desert Shield/Desert Storm 1991.

[Kev2go]

On 6/9/2021 at 2:08 AM, WinterH said:

We have AJS37, not the JA37D, Heatblur did consider adding it as an FC3 level bonus, but in the end it did not happen.

Rafale is very unlikely I'd say, but who knows.

 

I'd personally find seeing a DCS:F-15A to be a cool idea, but last few years we are clearly seeing the trend is "make the most modern possible even if some fudging is involved, it'll sell the most". So if we eventually get a full fidelity air-to-air Eagle, it'll probably be an F-15C with more features than the FC3 one we have now.

 

I for one see this as a very unnecessary addition. We are lacking a lot more things that could plug more gaps than making existing FC3 planes into full fidelity. Feeling similar about potentially upcoming MiG-29A as well.

 

I think the fudging happens in modern aircraft in part also because things become blurred when certain capabilities or features are added or enhanced purely via software updates, and not via physical airframe or avionics modification.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Kev2go

[bies]

On 6/9/2021 at 8:08 AM, WinterH said:

I'd personally find seeing a DCS:F-15A to be a cool idea, but last few years we are clearly seeing the trend is "make the most modern possible even if some fudging is involved, it'll sell the most". So if we eventually get a full fidelity air-to-air Eagle, it'll probably be an F-15C with more features than the FC3 one we have now.

 

Just three basic variants like F-14A GR95, F-14A GR135, F-14B:

 

F-15A since 1975, the lightest and most nimble, the best nose authority, 7.5G, tempramental PW100 engines (with VMAX switch!) and initial analog weapon control panel. This variant together with F-16A decimated Syrian air force in 1982 over Bekaa Valley.

 

F-15C since 1979, enlarged internal fuel volume, 9G full envelope and overload warning system (over G!), digital central computer PSP, slightly improved radar.

 

F-15C MSIPII since 1985, upgraded avionics with TWS, NCTR, RAID, built in ALQ-135 ECM, improved RWR, improved radar, digital weapon panel.

It's what we have in FC3 right now as low fidelity, used in Desert Storm, later integrated with AMRAAM and used to the late 1990s.

Edited August 6, 2021 by bies

[FlankerKiller]

On 2/25/2021 at 4:11 PM, killkenny1 said:

 

Well doubt general multiplayer crowd knows about these tactics either, from what I heard about multiplayer.

Or they do but don't use them.

 

 

Ironic post, isn't it?

 

My post was made partly in jest.

I'm sure that F-15C will be made down the line, though not in the nearby future.

E just makes more sense to make. A plane which can offer some F-15 to everyone, be it A-A or A-G. Wanna to some air to air combat? No problem! Wanna erase some Hiluxes (hopefully one day ED will bless us with this asset) from the face of the Earth? Sure 'nuff 'n yes I do! Wanna just chill out and fly with your buddy in co-op? Hop in!

Yeah, I know, It's not as good as C in A-A and so on, but it still will be decent, and people who crave for F-15 will still buy it.

I don't disagree that the F-15C is going to have a market. But Razbam is doing that one. The thing is the F-15C is just sitting there mostly completed. Or kinda completed. All Flaming Cliffs jets are. It's FM is already PFM, its engines are modelled, it's DM is modelled, the exterior is modelled, the weapons are modelled, the interior is at least in a good open beata state. There is a good bit of systems, and subsystems that need to be done, but ED dose that for a living. The biggest issue i see is exactly what i just listed. You want to fly and fight this thing you already can for like $15. But you can never truly learn it. DCS is as much of a flight simulator to me as it is an air combat game. I've spent my entire life around these aircraft, and i love them deeply, except the Viper. Fuck the Viper, the real one not the ED product. DCS is a chance to peek behind the curtain so to speak, to see how the other half lives. So yeah, absolutely would pay full module prices to be able to do a start up on my favorite fighter ever, to click the radar on and off, to pager through the MFD, to click the different radar modes. But would the average DCS player? Or would thay just buy the FC3 one and go air quake? No one knows, and Its a big gamble for ED with no good answer. So yes ED I wish you would please make my dream come true. But I understand why you hesitate. 

[bies]

1 hour ago, FlankerKiller said:

The thing is the F-15C is just sitting there mostly completed. Or kinda completed. All Flaming Cliffs jets are. It's FM is already PFM, its engines are modelled, it's DM is modelled, the exterior is modelled, the weapons are modelled, the interior is at least in a good open beata state. There is a good bit of systems, and subsystems that need to be done, but ED dose that for a living.

 

That's what I call a low hanging fruit. Having all of this work done making the final step and full fidelity module out of F-15C would be relatively easy.

 

Just like ED plans to do with the MiG-29 9.12

But unfortunately now we will have to wait for the F-15E first, not to inter interfere with RAZBAM F-15E sales.

Edited August 7, 2021 by bies

[Northstar98]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:42 PM, FlankerKiller said:

I don't disagree that the F-15C is going to have a market. But Razbam is doing that one. The thing is the F-15C is just sitting there mostly completed. Or kinda completed. All Flaming Cliffs jets are. It's FM is already PFM, its engines are modelled, it's DM is modelled, the exterior is modelled, the weapons are modelled, the interior is at least in a good open beata state. There is a good bit of systems, and subsystems that need to be done, but ED dose that for a living. The biggest issue i see is exactly what i just listed. You want to fly and fight this thing you already can for like $15. But you can never truly learn it. DCS is as much of a flight simulator to me as it is an air combat game. I've spent my entire life around these aircraft, and i love them deeply, except the Viper. Fuck the Viper, the real one not the ED product. DCS is a chance to peek behind the curtain so to speak, to see how the other half lives. So yeah, absolutely would pay full module prices to be able to do a start up on my favorite fighter ever, to click the radar on and off, to pager through the MFD, to click the different radar modes. But would the average DCS player? Or would thay just buy the FC3 one and go air quake? No one knows, and Its a big gamble for ED with no good answer. So yes ED I wish you would please make my dream come true. But I understand why you hesitate. 

All I can say here is that ED are looking at doing a full-fidelity 9-12 MiG-29 [NATO: "Fulcrum A"], which we already have in FC3 (the other FC3 one being the 9-13S MiG-29S ["Fulcrum C"]).

There do seem to be a few players (though may just be a vocal minority), me included, who would love to have full-fidelity versions of FC3 aircraft.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Northstar98
formatting

[Exorcet]

  

1 hour ago, FlankerKiller said:

So yeah, absolutely would pay full module prices to be able to do a start up on my favorite fighter ever, to click the radar on and off, to pager through the MFD, to click the different radar modes. But would the average DCS player? Or would thay just buy the FC3 one and go air quake? No one knows, and Its a big gamble for ED with no good answer. So yes ED I wish you would please make my dream come true. But I understand why you hesitate. 

Given that FC3 served as a stop for full DCS fighters and then essentially fell by the way side I don't think it's all that risky. DCS survives on full modules. The A-10 was one of the first modules despite being in FC3, and yes while they are different versions, the full fidelity one is also by far the more complex one and that didn't seem to deter sales.

 

The F-15 also fills a bit of a void in DCS as well as a modern dedicated fighter. The only module close to this right now is the F-14, but its a two seater and depending on what Eagle we'd get with a hypothetical full module, it's a bit old as well. It would be pretty interesting to have a big modern radar and DL connection to the smaller multi role fighters to allow the F-15 pilot to guide them as a sort of AWACS. Or you could sort of do the same with an earlier model if we get that era fleshed out.

[upyr1]

IMHO the real question, is what version of the F-15C. I would like a late cold war version though if we must have some late model upgrade that is contemprary with the F-16 and 18 we have then I say 

[Tippis]

4 hours ago, upyr1 said:

IMHO the real question, is what version of the F-15C. I would like a late cold war version though if we must have some late model upgrade that is contemprary with the F-16 and 18 we have then I say 

The main reason would be that if there is anything this game doesn't need, it's more western contemporaries with the Hornet and Viper.

 

If a later version could be done for absolute bottom dollar, then sure, throw it in. If not, it would only serve to add to an increasingly problematic selection of units for sensible mission designs.

[Beirut]

I'd much rather have the E, but the C would be nice too.

 

An EX would be great. 

[Wizard_03]

6 hours ago, bies said:

 

That's what I call a low hanging fruit. Having all of this work done making the final step and full fidelity module out of F-15C would be relatively easy.

It actually kind of unfortunate that FC3 got implemented in DCS in the first place, because it created this situation where a really iconic fighter like F-15C isn't being developed because "its already in the game" It also firmly roots the Multiplayer environment in a specific time period. Thus creating all of these asset issues when they want to put new modern advanced aircraft that they have data for in the game. (ex. F-16CJ is too modern compared with Su-33, Su-27S, MiG-29A/G/S ext.)

 

If we didn't have FC3, DCS:F-15C would be a no brainer, The data is available and its one of, if not the greatest single fighter concepts in history period. Can't talk about Air to Air warfare in the late 20th century without mentioning the F-15s enormous Influence on it. In other words if you want to make a game about modern air combat F-15C should be at the top of your list.

 

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, Tippis said:

1 hour ago, Tippis said:

The main reason would be that if there ifd1s anything this game doesn't need, it's more western contemporaries with the Hornet and Viper.

 

If a later version could be done for absolute bottom dollar, then sure, throw it in. If not, it would only serve to add to an increasingly problematic selection of units for sensible mission designs.

 

That's my point the available tech level should have been determined by Russian and Chinese law. However that ship sailed long ago. I want the early version c.

[kseremak]

52 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

 

That's my point the available tech level should have been determined by Russian and Chinese law. However that ship sailed long ago. I want the early version c.

 

F-15C MSIP from 1985, counterpart of our Su-27S from 1985 would be the best. It was used in first Guld War achieving more than 30 kills. It was the last variant used by USAF in real combat.

[draconus]

13 hours ago, Tippis said:

The main reason would be that if there is anything this game doesn't need, it's more western contemporaries with the Hornet and Viper.

 

If a later version could be done for absolute bottom dollar, then sure, throw it in. If not, it would only serve to add to an increasingly problematic selection of units for sensible mission designs.

First time I hear more modules to choose from is problematic and FF F-15 would change nothing in mission design.

It's about modeling specific airframe to fly and operate fully not about someone's dream of DCS balance. EF is in the works - you can't stop this.

[FlankerKiller]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

16 hours ago, Tippis said:

 

First time I hear more modules to choose from is problematic and FF F-15 would change nothing in mission design.

It's about modeling specific airframe to fly and operate fully not about someone's dream of DCS balance. EF is in the works - you can't stop this.

The issue is they can be a bit hard to learn. And they are very hard to make. So if a new jet doesn't bring something new with it people might just not buy it, as it doesn't bring any new capabilities.