DCS: F-15C Poll

[wilbur81]

36 minutes ago, Scofflaw said:

I'm not trolling, just curious - aside from aircraft/engine/radar performance, can the F-15C do anything the F/A-18C can't?  Any unique/different radar modes or weapons?

Aside from aircraft/engine/radar performance?  Aircraft/engine performance is a REMARKABLY IMPORTANT set of factors. Aside from aircraft/engine performance, what can an F-15 do that a P-51 cannot?

Edited December 9, 2020 by wilbur81

[draconus]

@ScofflawHow about 2.5M? Stronger radar? It's THE AMRAAM platform, THE air superiority fighter of USAF designed from scratch for the only purpose.

@dfpoorOur FC3 F-15C can't do AG apart from gun stafing and AA rocket stunts.

[will-]

18 hours ago, Evoman said:

It was mentioned in this Q&A interview with ED at question #55 at 1:36:30.

I recommend everyone to hear this entire interview to be more up to date.

 

 

wow that is sad, i mean just as others have stated; if they were to make it, people would buy it....  The problem with DCS is still a lack of content.  FC3 filled that gap for years after that the main headliners from ED are just the f18, f16.  i understand that they have many projects and too many to list to consider the f15c with the team they have, but getting another dev team to develop the f15c would be a ez money maker.

 

if your business is to make content for your platform, why wouldn't you want the f15c.  only reason i can think of is you already have fc3 and f15e in the future, i am not the CFO, so when the bossman says no, im sure they know something we do not.

[Ghost7]

The best BVR fighter, I would buy the F-15C right away.

[wilbur81]

29 minutes ago, will- said:

The problem with DCS is still a lack of content.  

If I'm understanding that statement correctly... I STRONGLY disagree. DCS has problems, but lack of content is not one of them. If anything, I'd say DCS has too much content. They cannot finish products because there are too many (extremely complex and amazing) products on offer. Or, put another way, they are missing a small number of MASSIVELY important products: (for me) a dynamic campaign and realistic weather simulation. I would never accuse DCS of 'lacking content', though. But I admit that I may be misreading your statement.

Edited December 9, 2020 by wilbur81

[Mikey74]

I'd buy this plane 1st day in EA, from ED. I've seen Mig-29A comments from ED to be developed someday, and that should happen 1st, because of less red, thats a 1st buy on EA for me too. All FC3 should be HiFi !

[Wizard_03]

1 hour ago, Scofflaw said:

I'm not trolling, just curious - aside from aircraft/engine/radar performance, can the F-15C do anything the F/A-18C can't?  Any unique/different radar modes or weapons?

The hornet CAN do a great many things, It CAN'T do many things great. The F-15C is significantly better in the AA department then any of the jets currently in DCS. The tomcat gives it a run for its money, but really until the eurofighter comes out, its firmly the AA king. That has to do with speed and altitude. However before the Peanut gallery pipes in Dogfighting puts things on more or less equal terms for pretty much everything in the game. But in realistic scenarios, flown correctly, the F-15C has all the advantages.

 

In fact the FC3 version under-represents its capabilities in a few ways.

[sparrow88]

19 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

 

No, but then again if you ignore the airframe/engine/RADAR performance, there's almost no aircraft currently in DCS that can do anything the F/A-18C can't in terms of mission capability.

And thats why I only drive F14 and F18, and perhaps harrier in the future. F18 can do everything except STOVL, Tomcat does less but has multicrew and has no FBW so theres a big difference here. Harrier does stovl so I can do missions from farps. I will buy A6 or A7 only if they implement buddy-refueling capability, and EF2000 with IRST. So yeah - zero interest for F15C from me.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

F-15C do have air-ground capability. Its really just software. But the ordinance is limited to MK-82/83/84 CCIP. Israeli F-15C have been photographed carrying JDAMS on fuel pylon stations. I recall on Discovery Wings in 1990's watching footage of USAF F-15C CCIP MK-83 HUD cam. It may have been just experimental. I do not know of any operational mission flown by USAF F-15C that was A-G. It is an air superiority platform.

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-F15C-ground-attack-capable

 

MOdern F-15C with AESA , armed with HMQS,  AIM-9X, AIM-120C8,AIM-120D and PGU-28A/B cannon ammunition is formidable, and at least according to USAF and Boeing, superior to SU-27/SU-30 and Mig-29SMT in actual combat performance. Discounting air show aerobatics.

However at Red Flag, Maple Flag, and Northern Spirit  F-15C were bested few times by RAF and Luftwaffe Typhoons. Once engagement, 2 X F-15C jumped 2 German Typhoons. Typhoons were able to convert to F-15's 6 quite quickly. F-15C's were counted as shot down by referees. Tactics used by Typhoons and Indian SU-30MKI, in merge during WVR , is to slow down the fight through rolling scissors below 450. Eagles fight best at 500-550. Typhoons, Migs, and Sukhois , in WVR ACM, best fight at 300 or lower.

[GGTharos]

No, eagles don't fight best at 500-550, which makes me wonder about the rest of the anecdote.  Modern 15C are JDAM capable IIRC, but the USAF doesn't train with them.

[Dragon1-1]

That's not exactly a surprise. The Eagle works best with boom and zoom, and in BVR. Their mistake was that they got embroiled in a WVR dogfight against a Typhoon. Trying to BFM a Typhoon, which has canards and is capable of pulling 9G, in an Eaglejet is just dumb. The F-15 turns well, but not that well. 

 

The "air show aerobatics" that the MiGs and Sukhois can pull are ultimately linked to two things the F-15 doesn't have: high alpha capability, and very high G limits. Even the MiG-29A has an amazing ability to just "stand on its tail" and let the likes of F-15 and F-16 fly out in front of it (a Hornet will give it a hard time, though), and more modern variants are even more controllable at low speed and high alpha. Since any dogfight is inevitably an energetic race to the bottom, forcing the Eaglejet to burn off all of its energy and then using high alpha capability to make it overshoot is a perfectly good tactic for the likes of F-18, Typhoon or MiG-29, all of which are superior to it at low speeds.

[Wildwind]

In a heartbeat.

 

This is a "shut up and take my money!" case.

 

There is no aircraft I want more for DCS than a full-fideltiy F-15C.  Absolutely none.  That even goes for impossible ones like the F-22.  Probably the only thing that comes close is the F-14D (which is also in that impossible category, unfortunately, no matter how badly I want it).

 

Just to add, I'd buy any full-fidelity F-15, but I'd really prefer an A or C rather than an E.  I want the "not a pound for air to ground" version.

 

Even if it's an F-15A and only gets Sparrow and Sidewinder, I'll take it.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Wildwind

[dundun92]

Id vote yes purely because I like the F-15 as a plane.

However, I also think it would be a welcome addition as it would be our only really modern dedicated BLUE air superiority platform. Hornet is multirole and horrible kinematics, Viper is OK but a) limited payload and endurance, and b) once its radar gets fixed and stops severely overperforming, it won't see stuff past 30-40nm really, which means that as a BVR platform itll be really meh. Tomcat is simply old (sorry tomcat fans), its radar while powerful simply doesnt have the ease of use of the more modern radars, and SA is an issue as well. And yes, ill grant that there really is no good red oppostition, but personally I dont mind AMRAAM vs AMRAAM/Phoenix, and again thats a whole other topic which isnt the point of this thread.

 

[Oceandar]

F-15C do have air-ground capability.

Yea.. I've read one of ED staff (don't remember the name) comment about this. After reading some of doc available he was surprised the Eagle has this capability even much better than Su-27 has.

[Wildwind]

On 12/7/2020 at 8:59 AM, LCO489 said:

 Voted yes, but i think if with the F-15E arrival would it be capable to perform air-to-air just like the F-15 or no?

Problem 1; The F-15E is a two-seater.  Pilot and WSO.  This means you need a WSO to fully utilize it.

 

Problem 2:  The F-15E is substantially heavier and has more drag than the F-15C, and therefore is not as good at air-to-air (it's still no slouch, but the difference is enough to be significant, especially in BFM).

 

I would absolutely buy both the F-15C and F-15E, even as separate full-priced modules.  They're sufficiently different in role and capabiltiies.

[henshao]

On 12/6/2020 at 8:45 AM, sirrah said:

Voted "nah"

 

F-15C is too one sided (air to air only) for my preference

 

 

 

 

 

it may not be a normal thing in the USAF anymore, but it is for israel's F-15A's and C's. USAF before the invention of the F-15E (1980s) had a squadron of F-15C which trained ground attack as part of a Rapid Deployment Force but obviously the mudhen took over that role

[sirrah]

56 minutes ago, henshao said:

 

 

 

 

 

it may not be a normal thing in the USAF anymore, but it is for israel's F-15A's and C's. USAF before the invention of the F-15E (1980s) had a squadron of F-15C which trained ground attack as part of a Rapid Deployment Force but obviously the mudhen took over that role

Ok, I stand corrected

 

Thought it was just used for A2A

[Dragon1-1]

Yeah, it's not very well known, but it's all right for air to ground. It's not a very good bomber, but it's got more bombs than the MiG-29. I suspect the misconception comes from USAF no longer training for this, but "not a pound for air to ground" thing isn't really true.

 

I don't know if modern USAF ones are JDAM-capable, but even if they're not, there's nothing wrong with dumb bombs and the gun (presumably rockets, too, though I never seen that on an F-15).

[GGTharos]

Modern F-15Cs are JDAM capable but as usual, the USAF barely trains for this capability AFAIK - ie. you can do it in some nightmare scenario where your other delivery trucks are not available for whatever reasons.

[Dragon1-1]

Well, it's not like you need much training for the JDAM, anyway. As long as you're making a pre-planned attack on known coordinates, it's a rather straightforward weapon to use. As Dos Gringos put it, "all you need is a monkey, to throw poop and pickle".

 

Dumb bombs and effective strafing are a different matter, though, and in a nightmare scenario, they'd most likely be out of JDAMs, too. 

[GGTharos]

I suspect the training is about more than just dropping the weapon; we're only given a glimpse of what it works like in sims ... we have no idea what it's like IRL.

[Dragon1-1]

Actually, we do, considering the documentation available on it. JDAM employment really is that simple, it's a level drop from anywhere in zone (which you get neatly displayed on the HUD), and it'll just fly itself to the target. That's why GPS-guided weapons are all the rage these days, they're easy to use, reliable and accurate. 

 

Planning the attack is another matter, and in aircraft that regularly employ the JDAM, that's probably what most of the training for it consists of. You have to remember the ins and outs of this even when you're flying, because you might have to adjust attack parameters in real time, or, as with CAS, set up the whole thing on the fly. However, if flying a preplanned mission against a static target, all the pilot needs to do is get in zone, pickle and get out.

[TotenDead]

On 12/9/2020 at 8:17 PM, draconus said:

@ScofflawHow about 2.5M? Stronger radar? It's THE AMRAAM platform, THE air superiority fighter of USAF designed from scratch for the only purpose.

@dfpoorOur FC3 F-15C can't do AG apart from gun stafing and AA rocket stunts.

2,5M, eh? Why not 100500,5M, seems more real. Radar vise - even a huge increase in detection range won't change the capabilities of f-15 much as its radar is already good enough for dcs environment

[GGTharos]

It will change a lot.  The relevant request has been put through as the F-15C radar in-game under-performs significantly in range compared to the original APG-63.   Since this aircraft does not have a data-link and there's no in-game vectoring or reporting of tactical value, having the appropriate radar range lets you fly much better tactics.   Not that a lot of people do that on your average MP server, but that's a minority.

 

Also, if other aircraft get their correct radar ranges, you start seeing the difference even though they have datalinks.

[TotenDead]

Nah, you shouldnt forget that you're using non-esa radar and it has an awful scan time. What's the need to see far away without knowing where to look? What i'm saying is that without awacs support even a great radar would be... Bad. While having a FC3 radar is Just enough If you're assisted by awacs.