DCS: F-15C Poll

[henshao]

F-15 has definitely had enough variants over the years to be consider a "module pack" so to speak, original F-15C vs current F-15C is different enough that the latter could honestly warrant a new letter (F-15F?), add in the F-15E and you have at least 6-7 aircraft worth modeling. A, C early, C midpoint, C late, E early, E late, and hybrid/Saudi/foreign

[Wizard_03]

1 hour ago, henshao said:

F-15 has definitely had enough variants over the years to be consider a "module pack" so to speak, original F-15C vs current F-15C is different enough that the latter could honestly warrant a new letter (F-15F?), add in the F-15E and you have at least 6-7 aircraft worth modeling. A, C early, C midpoint, C late, E early, E late, and hybrid/Saudi/foreign

My ideal concept would be a product with epic module pricing and for that you first get a Ultra modern USAF/ANG F-15C Golden Eagle with optional CFTs, the PAD, Sniper, AESA, 9X, 120C7/D (all barring available information of course) So, in other words, the most modern they can get. Then in the same pack you also get a classic F-15A with just Aim-7/9s no OWS, no MFD, ect. ect.

 

That way we have a real rival for the Eurofighter (which left unchecked is just going to be the most effective jet in DCS, hands down when it comes out) and at the same time we have a nice match up for the red side with only SARH, which should allow proper cold war era BVR combat where the SUs and MiGs would be on much more even ground, and it would fit perfectly with all the other 80s assets we have.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Wizard_03

[wilbur81]

People that say, "we don't need a full fidelity F-15C 'cause Razbam is doing the Strike Eagle" just DO NOT GET IT! The Mudhen is a profane modification to the premier "not a pound for air to ground" air superiority fighter. An F-15 with a backseat is like a patio deck and unbrella attached to the Saturn V.... or something like that.    

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by wilbur81

[Wizard_03]

On 12/13/2020 at 7:32 PM, wilbur81 said:

People that say, "we don't need a full fidelity F-15C 'cause Razbam is doing the Strike Eagle" just DO NOT GET IT! The Mudhen is a profane modification to the premier "not a pound for air to ground" air superiority fighter. An F-15 with a backseat is like a patio deck and unbrella attached to the Saturn V.... or something like that.    

 

 

Well I think it's just more of the same, how many more different ways to we need to to deliver bombs. 

 

We in fact, do Not have any dedicated modern air Superiority fighters in DCS that are full fidelity.  

[wilbur81]

...That's my point.

[TotenDead]

I think we need a MiG-25 as a proper 3rd gen counter to existing hornets and F-15s first

[Berserk]

I voted yes but i was thinking about Cold War 1970s -1980s Sparrow/Sidewinder dogfighting Eagle from F-15A to F-15C MSIP II.

 

F-15C from 2000s as another AMRAAM truck BVR datalink standoff it would be no, please no, it's enough.

[Northstar98]

7 minutes ago, Berserk said:

I voted yes but i was thinking about Cold War 1970s -1980s Sparrow/Sidewinder dogfighting Eagle from F-15A to F-15C MSIP II.

 

F-15C from 2000s as another AMRAAM truck BVR datalink standoff it would be no, please no, it's enough.

 

Agreed.

[GGTharos]

I want the AMRAAM truck.  Yes, please yes.

[Berserk]

12 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

I want the AMRAAM truck.  Yes, please yes.

 

Wasn't F-15E as good as C as "AMRAAM truck"? I've seen 3rd party is making F-15E.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Berserk

[MAXsenna]

ED doesn't believe that developing a full fidelity F-15C is cost effective, because it's a pure fighter. Are they wrong? Would you buy it?

'Course I will, just as I will get everything else in the pipeline. Eventually!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[GGTharos]

37 minutes ago, Berserk said:

 

Wasn't F-15E as good as C as "AMRAAM truck"? I've seen 3rd party is making F-15E.

 

 

No.  The F-15C is an air to air fighter and the F-15E is too heavy, draggy and comparatively AoA limited to match its performance in either BVR or BFM.  Yep, you could use it in a pinch against lower threat aircraft or an outnumbered enemy, but it's not 'as good' at all.

Edited February 25, 2021 by GGTharos

[Wizard_03]

1 hour ago, Berserk said:

I voted yes but i was thinking about Cold War 1970s -1980s Sparrow/Sidewinder dogfighting Eagle from F-15A to F-15C MSIP II.

 

F-15C from 2000s as another AMRAAM truck BVR datalink standoff it would be no, please no, it's enough.

While I agree an 80s one would fit in with many of the current game assets better.

 

The F-15C is not "another" AMRAAM truck it's THE AMRAAM truck. The current fighters that use the weapon in DCS can't match the F-15C in spear throwing. Not even close. Maybe the eurofighter will, but not the viper, and certainly not the bug.

[VTJS17_Fire]

Would be a Day 1 buy for me. Pure power in a straight air-to-air fighter.

[Berserk]

41 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

 

No.  The F-15C is an air to air fighter and the F-15E is too heavy, draggy and comparatively AoA limited to match its performance in either BVR or BFM.  Yep, you could use it in a pinch against lower threat aircraft or an outnumbered enemy, but it's not 'as good' at all.

 

 

Thanks, i didn't know that. I always thought F-15E with PW229 and a few additional "tons" of thrust would have similar acceleration, but to be honest i didn't see an acceleration chart to compare them.

BFM i knew "Mudhen" wouldn't be a challenge for "light grey" single seater, but with AIM-120 i don't see this as a problem. 

 

I wish F-15C didn't receive PW229 like F-16 did, but it required slight rebuild of engine compartment and since Soviets collapsed any challenge to US air superiority disappeared so money cuts were so deep nothing like that was possible. They barely saved F-22 program at all.

 

But "mighty Eagle" lost it's edge years ago, mid 2000s something like F-22 or even Eurofighter with it's aerodynamics, unstable design, supercruise would eat F-15C alive. During Cold War era maneuver air combat you could always count on pilot's skill, and this were super sharp in F-15 community back the Soviets day, but today technology is merciless...

Edited February 25, 2021 by Berserk

[killkenny1]

2 hours ago, GGTharos said:

F-15E is too heavy

 

so it's a

 

3 hours ago, GGTharos said:

truck

 

on which you can put

 

3 hours ago, GGTharos said:

AMRAAM

 

Problem solved!

Why do you need a high performance machine if you gonna spam AMRAAMs from the other end of the map?

Edited February 25, 2021 by killkenny1

[GGTharos]

38 minutes ago, killkenny1 said:

Problem solved!

Why do you need a high performance machine if you gonna spam AMRAAMs from the other end of the map?

 

Congratulations on increasing your post count.

[GGTharos]

2 hours ago, Berserk said:

Thanks, i didn't know that. I always thought F-15E with PW229 and a few additional "tons" of thrust would have similar acceleration, but to be honest i didn't see an acceleration chart to compare them.[/quote]

 

You are correct.  It has a few more tons of thrust, and a whole bunch more tons of fuel, weapons, and drag.   The 2-seater also moves the CoG and lowers high AoA stability as well (yes, so did the B/Ds).

 

Quote

BFM i knew "Mudhen" wouldn't be a challenge for "light grey" single seater, but with AIM-120 i don't see this as a problem. 

 

But it is.  BVR isn't that much different from BFM in concept.  You're manipulating geometry and time, and the F-15C does things faster, throws things further, etc.   Not a huge issue against low threat opposition but as opposition capability increases things change.

 

Quote

I wish F-15C didn't receive PW229 like F-16 did, but it required slight rebuild of engine compartment and since Soviets collapsed any challenge to US air superiority disappeared so money cuts were so deep nothing like that was possible. They barely saved F-22 program at all.

 

They're just not needed for the Charlie eagle.   Nice yes, need ... nah.

 

Quote

But "mighty Eagle" lost it's edge years ago, mid 2000s something like F-22 or even Eurofighter with it's aerodynamics, unstable design, supercruise would eat F-15C alive. During Cold War era maneuver air combat you could always count on pilot's skill, and this were super sharp in F-15 community back the Soviets day, but today technology is merciless...

 

More like other things are catching up with its edge, and while F-22's would be kicking doors down, there's not exactly a whole lot of Su-35's to fight against.  Anyway, that's beside the point.

 

Get a '95 eagle, you can always step down to throwing AIM-7s, and at this point no datalink is available (or even if it was, you could have the option to make it an available equipment piece and thus remove it from inventory like a missile).  Get an '85 eagle, you can't really step up to throwing 120s.

Therefore, I would personally be happy with a 1995 (for which there are -34's floating around) or even 2000's version.   And while I wouldn't mind something even newer like a Golden Eagle, it will be a while before there is any sort of useful information on those - but also those would be harder to 'step down' to a cold war scenario.

Edited February 25, 2021 by GGTharos

[upyr1]

I would love to get a full fidelity modules of all the flaming cliffs planes.

[bies]

3 hours ago, Berserk said:

 

I wish F-15C didn't receive PW229 like F-16 did, but it required slight rebuild of engine compartment and since Soviets collapsed any challenge to US air superiority disappeared so money cuts were so deep nothing like that was possible.

 

F-15C with PW229 would have Streak Eagle performance! It could rival Eurofighter in acceleration, though i'm not sure it would supercruise, it was aerodynamic concept of late 1960s. And even then it was a little bit conservative compared to even more impressive North American project with blended body aerodynamic configuration.

 

 

I read "F-15 Eagle Engaged" by Doug Dildy USAF F-15 pilot.

He said first F-15A had the most impressive kinematic performance having lighter airframe than "C" and famous VMAX switch still working increasing thrust to whooping 27,000lb per engine!

 

Pilots were shocked by it's overall performance and handling, in 1970s F-15A was the Superfighter.

Edited February 25, 2021 by bies

[lmp]

Voted no. I have enough teen fighters already.

[streakeagle]

I want a 1960-70s Vietnam/Israel era F-4 Phantom to fly in historical air-to-air missions more than anything.

I would settle for any variant despite having strong preferences for certain models/production blocks.

 

But in the absence of the F-4, I would settle for the F-15C in Flaming Cliffs being upgraded to a full-fidelity module.

I would be prefer an F-15A, but any F-15 variant up to the Flaming Cliffs F-15C would be good enough.

 

In the interim, the F-14A is the closest I can get to what I want. It turns out that the F-14A is a really great approximation of an F-4S, albeit with better maneuverability and a dramatically better radar. The power-to-weight is very similar with modest improvements in acceleration and climb due to better aerodynamics including the swing-wing. Having an older style radar with a backseat RIO makes it the only aircraft even close to simulating an F-4 in DCS World. I am very disappointed by ED's delay and then cancellation of Belsimtek's F-4E. It was a little newer than I wanted, but would have simulated a 1972 Vietnam era slatted F-4E very well for air-to-air purposes. My one hope is that Heatblur will pick up the slack since they already have the RIO logic in the F-14A.

 

If ED isn't ever going to give me an F-4 to go with the MiG-21, at least give me an F-15.

Edited February 25, 2021 by streakeagle

[dundun92]

1 hour ago, killkenny1 said:

Why do you need a high performance machine if you gonna spam AMRAAMs from the other end of the map?

the widespread ignorance on proper AMRAAM tactics and BVR employment really shocks me. If you think ARH BVR is simply about thowing AMRAAMs "from the other end of the map" without tactics, or that kinetics dont matter, you really have no clue what youre talking about.

Edited February 25, 2021 by dundun92

[GGTharos]

2 hours ago, bies said:

F-15C with PW229 would have Streak Eagle performance! It could rival Eurofighter in acceleration, though i'm not sure it would supercruise, it was aerodynamic concept of late 1960s. And even then it was a little bit conservative compared to even more impressive North American project with blended body aerodynamic configuration.[/quote]

 

It would supercruise.   This is all about thrust v drag, and the F-15 is a racer.  The 229 would add so much mil thrust that it would probably be like running stage 1 or 2 AB.

 

Quote

I read "F-15 Eagle Engaged" by Doug Dildy USAF F-15 pilot.

He said first F-15A had the most impressive kinematic performance having lighter airframe than "C" and famous VMAX switch still working increasing thrust to whooping 27,000lb per engine!

 

VMAX increased thrust slightly when supersonic only, and it did so at the cost of overheating the engines (literally running at higher temps to achieve this).  The -220s were build with materials that could take this heat and the VMAX switch was no longer necessary.  You can see from the charts that the -220 equipped eagle leaves the -100 equipped eagle in the dust above mach 1.  Not a small difference, literally eat-my-dirt sort of difference.

 

The 27000lbs thrust engine was a NASA modification to their F-15B which sadly never made it to production eagles.

Edited February 25, 2021 by GGTharos

[killkenny1]

20 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

the widespread ignorance on proper AMRAAM tactics and BVR employment really shocks me. If you think ARH BVR is simply about thowing AMRAAMs "from the other end of the map" without tactics, or that kinetics dont matter, you really have no clue what youre talking about.

 

 

Well doubt general multiplayer crowd knows about these tactics either, from what I heard about multiplayer.

Or they do but don't use them.

 

1 hour ago, GGTharos said:

 

Congratulations on increasing your post count.

 

Ironic post, isn't it?

 

My post was made partly in jest.

I'm sure that F-15C will be made down the line, though not in the nearby future.

E just makes more sense to make. A plane which can offer some F-15 to everyone, be it A-A or A-G. Wanna to some air to air combat? No problem! Wanna erase some Hiluxes (hopefully one day ED will bless us with this asset) from the face of the Earth? Sure 'nuff 'n yes I do! Wanna just chill out and fly with your buddy in co-op? Hop in!

Yeah, I know, It's not as good as C in A-A and so on, but it still will be decent, and people who crave for F-15 will still buy it.