DCS: F-15C Poll

[dundun92]

21 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

Nah, you shouldnt forget that you're using non-esa radar and it has an awful scan time. What's the need to see far away without knowing where to look? What i'm saying is that without awacs support even a great radar would be... Bad. While having a FC3 radar is Just enough If you're assisted by awacs. 

Do you really think the USAF put a big radar on it for no reason? And no the scan time isnt "awful" unless you are running around in 8B 120° scans. And im not sure whats so good about its current FC3 radar, its seriously underperforming.And if you have no clue where the bandits should be coming fron you probably shouldnt be fighting

Edited December 11, 2020 by dundun92

[GGTharos]

I'm not forgetting anything.   If I have two aircraft, I can scan the same volume in half the time, it's not a problem.   At long range, a surveillance scan can take as long as it needs, it's about 2 sec/bar which isn't terrible.  Whatever the 'opponent' happens to be, will be geographically limited so typically they can't just come from wherever they well please.  So yes, the proper radar range gives you options.

[mytai01]

I would pay $80 for a full fidelity F-15C. I wouldn't even wait for a sale!

[mytai01]

On 12/5/2020 at 7:17 PM, Jester986 said:

For the love of all things aviation, PLEASE no more gen4 blufor. F-16, F-18, F-15E, Typhoon, and probably whatever the secret module is. Enough.

It'll be another 70 years before ED is allowed to do full fidelity Gen 4 Russian aircraft. ED would have already done them, but they're forbidden by that government from doing so... there's nothing they can do, so you're going to get what they can give. I'm surprised they even got to do MiG-21 & 23! You can pretty much forget about MiG-29/Su-27/MiG-31/Su-25/MiG-25. If we're lucky, they might allow Su-15/17/22. But, I think that's pretty much the limit of what they'll allow...

[mytai01]

On 12/5/2020 at 10:36 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

I wouldn't mind an F-15C. The avionics are actually a little bit more bare-bones than those of the F-16, with just one MFD and most of the gauges being analog. It's closer to an early Gen4, and we do need more of those. Plus, BalticDragon has a brilliant campaign for the F-15C, and I'd love to fly it in a full-fidelity module.

 

BTW, "not a pound for air to ground" is a little misleading, it can carry dumb bombs and strafe with the gun, and it does have an AG radar mode to facilitate that. It's not very good in that role, but in a pinch, it could do it.

F-15C was never used for bombing. They never even practiced to use bombs. There are some pictures during development, but they never even flight tested dropping bombs until the Strike Eagle program started... There are pictures of F-106's in Vietnam with bombs hung on the wings! But, that was a joke being played on a new, or visiting, DV...

Edited December 11, 2020 by mytai01

[dundun92]

1 minute ago, mytai01 said:

F-15C was never used for bombing. They never even practiced to use bombs. There are some pictures during development, but they never even flight tested dropping bombs until the Strike Eagle program started...

some eagle squadrons did practice initially iirc, and it was tested using bombs, ill have to find the photo.

[mytai01]

On 12/6/2020 at 8:56 AM, Limpack said:

No buy. Exclusively interested in red gear. Most interested in the MiG-21, Mi-24 and MiG-23.

Well, they are coming, and that's probably all you'll get, too!

[mytai01]

On 12/7/2020 at 3:51 AM, Agrrregat said:

I'd rather take clickable Sukhoi than F-15 or any new Blue jet. Maybe Su-27 / 30 / or 34 will be the best.

Never going to happen... ED is not allowed to do them...

[mytai01]

On 12/9/2020 at 5:38 AM, Wizard_03 said:

Why do you need the F-4E, you've got the F-14A, and F-5E? They're making the A-7, and F-8 Too? Same reasoning.

Because, everyone wants to experience the aircraft that they loved as a kid...

[Dragon1-1]

9 minutes ago, mytai01 said:

F-15C was never used for bombing. They never even practiced to use bombs. There are some pictures during development, but they never even flight tested dropping bombs until the Strike Eagle program started... There are pictures of F-106's in Vietnam with bombs hung on the wings! But, that was a joke being played on a new, or visiting, DV...

Maybe not, but I'm pretty sure F-15A did, and they initially did practice dropping bombs from them. The F-15C still has a fully functional A/G radar, and its hardpoints can accept bombs as well as missiles. USAF doesn't care about this capability because they have the Mudhen, but Isrealis still train for bombing in all their F-15s.

 

As it has been said before in this thread, modern iterations of F-15C can carry JDAMs and are fully capable of utilizing them. There's not much use for that in practice, but it is a technical possibility. It's just like the MiG-29, which would never be used to drop bombs except in desperation (admittedly, Soviet planners were more familiar with desperate scenarios after WWII than the US ones).

[rhino41]

All in. Instant buy. Been flying Eagle since original Lockon. Why wouldn't you full fidelity it.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[henshao]

2 hours ago, mytai01 said:

F-15C was never used for bombing. They never even practiced to use bombs. There are some pictures during development, but they never even flight tested dropping bombs until the Strike Eagle program started... There are pictures of F-106's in Vietnam with bombs hung on the wings! But, that was a joke being played on a new, or visiting, DV...

 

 

15 hours ago, henshao said:

 

 

 

 

 

it may not be a normal thing in the USAF anymore, but it is for israel's F-15A's and C's. USAF before the invention of the F-15E (1980s) had a squadron of F-15C which trained ground attack as part of a Rapid Deployment Force but obviously the mudhen took over that role

 

 

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a398080.pdf

 

[dundun92]

Heres the image I was looking for:

[Dragon1-1]

Do note that this poster is an F-15A. That said, the paper linked above mentions that at least early on, the F-15C retained the air to ground software from the A model. Whether that was the case during further upgrades, I don't know, but I don't think they would take it out, and even if they did, you always have the backup depressable pipper.  

[HiJack]

6 hours ago, mytai01 said:

I would pay $80 for a full fidelity F-15C. I wouldn't even wait for a sale!

Ditto! 

[henshao]

so apparently the Saudis ordered some F-15C after the production lines were already switched over to mudhens. Several F-15E were built as single-seaters. I don't know much more than that but they are tail numbers 90-0263 through 90-0271

 

http://www.uswarplanes.net/f15.pdf

 

given that the Saudi 100% ordered their F-15C with intent to bomb I can't help but wonder how what systems those "frankeneagles" possess/support

[TotenDead]

12 hours ago, dundun92 said:

Do you really think the USAF put a big radar on it for no reason? And no the scan time isnt "awful" unless you are running around in 8B 120° scans. And im not sure whats so good about its current FC3 radar, its seriously underperforming.And if you have no clue where the bandits should be coming fron you probably shouldnt be fighting

 

I'm talking about the game, not real life. And in the game you won't see almost any difference as, like i said, you won't know where to look for yourenemy when flying without awacs. Shouldnt be fighting in such conditions? Huh, well, seems like that's why almost all of the blueboys fly on GS server xd

[dundun92]

4 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

I'm talking about the game, not real life. And in the game you won't see almost any difference as, like i said, you won't know where to look for yourenemy when flying without awacs. Shouldnt be fighting in such conditions? Huh, well, seems like that's why almost all of the blueboys fly on GS server xd

Except that in game it will make a difference, if you think it wont you havent flown the AMRAAM jets enough to know. Initial detection at 55nm (where it is now) gives you only about 10nm to sort, target and shoot at 40kft with optimal shot ranges around 45nm. Detection at 90nm (as it should be), gives a confortable 35nm to do the same thing. It will be a big deal.

And yes I know where to look for the enemy without AWACS, its called situational awareness of where they come from. Planes dont spontaneously appear from nothing yknow...

[GGTharos]

6 hours ago, TotenDead said:

I'm talking about the game, not real life. And in the game you won't see almost any difference as, like i said, you won't know where to look for yourenemy when flying without awacs. Shouldnt be fighting in such conditions? Huh, well, seems like that's why almost all of the blueboys fly on GS server xd

 

You're just trolling.

[Wizard_03]

6 hours ago, TotenDead said:

I'm talking about the game, not real life. And in the game you won't see almost any difference as, like i said, you won't know where to look for yourenemy when flying without awacs. Shouldnt be fighting in such conditions? Huh, well, seems like that's why almost all of the blueboys fly on GS server xd

F-14s AWG-9 has something to say about that, perfectly cable of independent search and track. 

 

An ASM of the Eagles radar would give you the exact same capabilities. Not that you can't now but the range and fine tuning required for that aren't available ATM thanks to FC balancing back in the day, which also means we don't have the Situational page for Link-16/MIDS. Go figure.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Wizard_03

[GGTharos]

If it's a 90's eagle it wouldn't have the DL anyway AFAIK - SIT page yes, DL not so much.

Edited December 12, 2020 by GGTharos

[Wizard_03]

7 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

If it's a 90's eagle it wouldn't have the DL anyway AFAIK - SIT page yes, DL not so much.

 

Yeah 01 to 03 is when they got FDL integration. 

[henshao]

according to the tail number, at least one of the Saudi Eagles involved in a recent event was one of the F-15C "FrankenEagle" single-seat F-15E, tail 1323 (the near one)

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by henshao

[Exorcet]

On 12/5/2020 at 8:22 PM, Wizard_03 said:

ED doesn't believe that developing a full fidelity F-15C is cost effective, because it's a pure fighter. Are they wrong? Would you buy it?

 

C Eagle is on top of my buy list. And though used mostly as a fighter, it has A2G capability, so that shouldn't really keep it from being produced.

[Wizard_03]

22 hours ago, Exorcet said:

C Eagle is on top of my buy list. And though used mostly as a fighter, it has A2G capability, so that shouldn't really keep it from being produced.

That is true, It certainly has greater A2G capability then the F-5E. Plus Considering the multitude of trainers floating around in DCS, I don't see why a dedicated air superiority aircraft doesn't provide enough gameplay versatility. Maybe its cost/resource allocation issue in their minds. But I still wouldn't agree with that, considering the state of the FC3 Module and the apparent easiness of simply converting that asset into a full fidelity product but maybe I'm ignorant.

 

Seems like a good slug of people want it, and more then half the work is already done. I don't know, Maybe they are worried having a third party developing the F-15E might affect sales for a potential F-15C negatively since there are those who might see both for sale and go with the one that has more bells and whistles. But I think that could also be solved by

 

A. setting a reasonable price point, say half that of the F-15E, (Arbitrarily) or

B. Selling it for a similar price level but providing several distinct versions representing different eras, time periods and or operators of the jet like Heatblurs approach with the F-14A/A+ along with a good amount of updated support assets, like new or updated 3D modules for AI or something along those lines.

 

It could be done in a way that gives us the jet and earns them enough money, in my mind.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Wizard_03