Please add more liveries for the Hornet

[CanopyJettison]

Cheers,

 

like the headline says, please add more liveries for the Hornet.

 

Please dont come up with a link to the download section.

Just officially included, multiplayer-working liveries.

Every liverie which is not included into the game by default doesnt exists.

 

Thanks for feedback.

[Texac]

15 hours ago, CanopyJettison said:

Every liverie which is not included into the game by default doesnt exists.

Please explain that to me, it doesn't make sense to me.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Texac

[KittyVCAW-1]

in order for skins to be seen in multiplayer, every player on the server needs to have the skins installed on their machine. I think that's what he means. For the record we have enough IMO. They all look the same at 1000Knts closure anyway, a grey blur.

[Nealius]

9 hours ago, KittyVCAW-1 said:

in order for skins to be seen in multiplayer, every player on the server needs to have the skins installed on their machine. I think that's what he means. For the record we have enough IMO. They all look the same at 1000Knts closure anyway, a grey blur.

 

They don't look like a gray blur when in formation or on the crowded deck of the carrier, where a large chunk of the immersion experience happens.

[Harker]

As I've said on other threads like this, if immersion is sought after by having the same liveries etc, this means that the concerned party is a squadron and squadrons often make their own liveries or choose an existing one. If we're talking about general MP, everyone will pick whatever livery they want anyway, so why does it matter? You could end up with 10 different squadron liveries on the deck, from different carrier wings and time periods. How does this increase immersion?

[Nealius]

On 12/10/2020 at 10:26 PM, Harker said:

As I've said on other threads like this, if immersion is sought after by having the same liveries etc, this means that the concerned party is a squadron and squadrons often make their own liveries or choose an existing one. If we're talking about general MP, everyone will pick whatever livery they want anyway, so why does it matter? 

 

That's a false assumption. Many concerned parties are people who play on single-player and want an immersive experience when on the deck of the carrier. Another concerned party is content creators looking to make realistic cinematics.

 

On 12/10/2020 at 10:26 PM, Harker said:

 You could end up with 10 different squadron liveries on the deck, from different carrier wings and time periods. How does this increase immersion?

 

That kills immersion. That's the whole point of this discussion. 

[Harker]

2 hours ago, Nealius said:

That's a false assumption. Many concerned parties are people who play on single-player and want an immersive experience when on the deck of the carrier. Another concerned party is content creators looking to make realistic cinematics.

 

That kills immersion. That's the whole point of this discussion. 

I get the SP argument, but I'll support the livery creation to the point that each carrier has one time-accurate carrier wing, not more. If players want that specific squadron's livery, it's up to them to download or make it.

For the MP argument, I don't get it. How are you going to make sure than every random player on an open server selects the correct livery?

[Tholozor]

5 hours ago, Harker said:

I get the SP argument, but I'll support the livery creation to the point that each carrier has one time-accurate carrier wing, not more. If players want that specific squadron's livery, it's up to them to download or make it.

For the MP argument, I don't get it. How are you going to make sure than every random player on an open server selects the correct livery?

I agree with this. Squadrons change air wings quite often over the years. If we even wanted to do a full air wing for the 2005 timeframe, we'd need E/F Super Hornets, Super Tomcats, or other carrier classes that aren't in DCS.

 

Want to make a 2005 CVW-5? Missing USS Kitty Hawk and Super Hornets for VFA-102 and VFA-27.

Want to make a 2005 CVW-1? Missing USS Enterprise and Super Hornets for VF-211.

 

The Hornet's 2005 time frame makes things difficult to plan out for liveries since the Tomcat was retired in '06, and Super Hornets began deployments in '04 '02. So what year do we stick with to make a full CVW? This is where things get a bit out of whack.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Tholozor

[Jackjack171]

8 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

I agree with this. Squadrons change air wings quite often over the years. If we even wanted to do a full air wing for the 2005 timeframe, we'd need E/F Super Hornets, Super Tomcats, or other carrier classes that aren't in DCS.

 

Want to make a 2005 CVW-5? Missing USS Kitty Hawk and Super Hornets for VFA-102 and VFA-27.

Want to make a 2005 CVW-1? Missing USS Enterprise and Super Hornets for VF-211.

 

The Hornet's 2005 time frame makes things difficult to plan out for liveries since the Tomcat was retired in '06, and Super Hornets began deployments in '04. So what year do we stick with to make a full CVW? This is where things get a bit out of whack.

Correct! It is frustrating that nothing really lines up but is kind of flexible. Hate to be that guy but it was 2002 for the first Super Hornet Deployment. VFA-115 and the Lincoln with CAG 14. I like to focus on a time without Super Hornets in DCS. Let's not forget, we have an E-2D that was not operational back in 2005, so it's all over the place. Can't wait until the Forrestal comes online. Personally, I prefer old school Naval Aviation.

[Tholozor]

1 hour ago, Jackjack171 said:

Hate to be that guy but it was 2002 for the first Super Hornet Deployment.

Ah yup, that's right, missed that on my chart, thanks. After 115 I believe it was VFA-41 and 14 that got Supers on Nimitz for the '03 deployment with CVW-11, then they started going en masse in '04.

 

Anyway, back to the main topic. I know it's not the answer the OP wants, but given the lack of specific assets in DCS, a full CVW isn't really feasible. There's plenty of decent liveries in User Files (I even made one for VFA-136 c.2007), if you and your flight want to look a part, put in what effort is needed to make that happen. The only real CVW one could make for the Hornet's 2005 timeframe in DCS is CVW-3 on CVN-75 (VF-32 w/ 14B, VMFA-115 w/ 18A+, VFA-37 and -105 w/ 18C, out of those the only one not native in DCS is VMFA-115, and there's an excellent livery in User Files). And even then we still have the wrong Hawkeye, no Prowlers, old as dirt Seahawk and Viking models, and no Greyhound (except in the Military Aircraft Mod).

Edited December 14, 2020 by Tholozor

[Jackjack171]

Very well said! I think that for now, we can only look the part! 

I have your -136 livery. Outstanding work!

[Nealius]

I see lots of cop-out arguments to avoid fixing the problem. 

 

8 hours ago, Harker said:

 each carrier has one time-accurate carrier wing, not more. 

 

That is factually false if you bothered to do any research. See for yourself: http://www.gonavy.jp/AirWingsf.html

 

Quote

 If players want that specific squadron's livery, it's up to them to download or make it.

 

The problem is that many of the liveries we need don't even exist on the user files. "It's up to them to make it" is pure gatekeeping, because not everyone has the software or skills to create liveries.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Nealius

[Harker]

5 hours ago, Tholozor said:

I agree with this. Squadrons change air wings quite often over the years. If we even wanted to do a full air wing for the 2005 timeframe, we'd need E/F Super Hornets, Super Tomcats, or other carrier classes that aren't in DCS.

 

Want to make a 2005 CVW-5? Missing USS Kitty Hawk and Super Hornets for VFA-102 and VFA-27.

Want to make a 2005 CVW-1? Missing USS Enterprise and Super Hornets for VF-211.

 

The Hornet's 2005 time frame makes things difficult to plan out for liveries since the Tomcat was retired in '06, and Super Hornets began deployments in '04 '02. So what year do we stick with to make a full CVW? This is where things get a bit out of whack.

That's the reason we went with a 2002 timeframe for our group, instead of 2005 and choose the CVW-17. It has the CVN-73, three F/A-18C squadrons and one F-14B squadron and the rest of the assets we create liveries for ourselves. If we use the Military Aircraft Mod, we only miss the EA-6B. Honestly, I feel like that's the closest we can be in recreating a full CVW right now. It's certainly not easy to get there though and it required quite a bit of research, because we didn't want to go back in time too much, else our Hornet would be too much out of place. The lack of the F/A-18E/F and F-14D make this type of research difficult, if you want to have a full CVW.
 

50 minutes ago, Nealius said:

I see lots of cop-out arguments to avoid fixing the problem.

I'm not trying to avoid fixing anything and even more, it's not up to me to fix it, I'm just giving my opinion on a wishlist thread.

50 minutes ago, Nealius said:

That is factually false if you bothered to do any research. See for yourself: http://www.gonavy.jp/AirWingsf.html

I think you misunderstood what I said. I didn't imply that IRL each carrier only has had one specific CVW. I meant that, in DCS, ED should provide liveries for one complete CVW, for each carrier in the game and the liveries should be from the same year. I'm going to use my comment above as an example.
CVN-73: CVW-17, circa 2002

• All liveries should be from 2002, tail code AA
• F/A-18C: VFA-34, VFA-81, VFA-83
• F-14B: VF-103
• E-2D: VAW-125 (as E-2C)
• S-3B: VS-30
• SH-60: HS-15 (as SH-60F, missing the HH-60H)
• (C-2A: VRC-40)
• (EA-6B: VAQ-132)

I would like to see that list or a list like this in the game, alongside other lists for the other carriers in the game, to the extent possible (maybe a carrier can't get a full period-accurate CVW, because they had Super Hornets). That gives the possibility to have an accurate CVW, on its own carrier (even if a squadron is missing). That's what I'm saying. It's better to have consistent, thought out livery lists like this, instead of random squadron liveries that don't match together. And at the same time, I want to avoid having every single squadron livery on my SSD.

50 minutes ago, Nealius said:

The problem is that many of the liveries we need don't even exist on the user files. "It's up to them to make it" is pure gatekeeping, because not everyone has the software or skills to create liveries.

It's not gatekeeping, it's how modding works, by its very nature. It's user-created, unofficial content. If you want unofficial content, you either make it yourself or you find it online, if it's been made by others. Also, everyone is going to have different liveries they need, for their different ideas about CVWs, time periods etc. This creates an endless problem and the only way to solve it is for ED (and HB for the F-14) to make every single squadron livery - a solution which is not feasible.

[Harker]

BTW, I find it very strange that ED chose to model the post-RCOH versions of the CVN-71 (RCOH finished in 2013) and CVN-72 (RCOH finished in 2017). They are 2013 and 2017 ships, and neither our 2005ish Hornet or the Tomcat are modern enough to go on them. The CVN-68 and 69 are the only carriers that went through their RCOH early enough to tie in well with the rest of the naval aviation assets we have. IMO, if they wanted to give us post-RCOH carriers, they should've given us those.

[Tholozor]

We could also do CVW-1 during the '01-'02 deployment on CVN-71:

• F-14B: VF-102
• F/A-18C: VMFA-251, VFA-82, VFA-86
• EA-6B: VAQ-137
• E-2C: VAW-123
• SH-60F/HH-60H: HS-11
• S-3B: VS-32
• C-2A: VRC-40 Det 2

Or CVW-9 on CVN-74:

• F-14A: VF-211
• F/A-18C: VMFA-314, VFA-146, VFA-147
• EA-6B: VAQ-138
• E-2C: VAW-112
• SH-60F/HH-60H: HS-8
• S-3B: VS-33
• C-2A: VRC-30 Det 4

Things just line up better once you get to the first few deployments after the start of GWOT.

 

It would be interesting if ED could potentially add additional sections to the Hornet model for transparency textures. Instead of having to make an entire new texture just to add the name of a carrier or BuNo, it could easily be adjusted in a small transparent texture file just like the Modex numbers. The Arleigh Burke is a great example of this, both the hull number and ship name on the aft aren't even part of the primary hull texture. I got liveries of every ship in class (51 to 119 excluding 118) to fit into ~8MB of space. That's some serious optimization that other models could be taking advantage of. The only problem I can foresee would be CAG aircraft since those paint jobs change over the years, so line aircraft would probably be the best option for something like that.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Tholozor

[Nealius]

You couldn't do a full CVW-9 on the Stennis. You'd have to omit the Black Knights because we don't have any liveries for them with the NG tail.

 

CVW-1 is also iffy because the VFA-82 and -86 liveries are not correct for the year, mainly with the wrong ship names on them. If livery creators would omit the ship names, it would make liveries more flexible for use across mutiple deployments.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Nealius

[Ravacoon]

Hey guys,

 

i wondered if we are getting any new Skins for the F/A-18 soon or later?

There are a few Navy LO-Vis Skins that do not have a HI-Vis counterpart like most Marines Skins have.

I would also like a some classics like the vfa 195 for example.

 

Downloading those skins is kinda buggy in Multiplayer so i would like to have them ingame. 

 

And do we get the ATFLIR Pod or is it canceled?

 

Thanks a lot and a happy new year.

Stay safe

[Tholozor]

Not sure what you mean by skins being buggy in Multiplayer, you'll need to be more specific.

 

ATFLIR is still coming.

[Ravacoon]

If you download Skins from the webside, you sometimes don´t see them in MP (or other ppl won´t see your skins in MP) You mostly see a glitchy vfa-37 skin

[Tholozor]

That's just how liveries work. If the player client doesn't have the same livery someone else is using, it can't be displayed, so it resorts to the default.

[T-O-A]

Would love to see a few new squadrons included and maybe some HiViz added to the already existing LoViz Navy liveries.

Edited January 20, 2021 by T-O-A

[CanopyJettison]

Any update from ED so far?

Will there be more liveries to come for the hornet?

[fagulha]

I have about 12 GB of Hornet Liveries from User Files and from the forum here.

Although i want always more i think there is a lot of liveries available for the Hornet....

But i get your point, you want default liveries so everyone can see the liveries in Multiplayer without downloading them too.

 

EDIT: not 12GB of Hornet Liveries but 23GB....

 

F.

Edited February 4, 2021 by fagulha

[CallsignPunch]

This....I don’t think it’s about livery availability I think it’s about more options in vanilla, which should fix the MP part.
 

ED doesn’t even need to do the work, find the high quality user ones, contact the maker for permission, and do their magic to include them in the next update. 

[Rudel_chw]

57 minutes ago, JFO82 said:

This....I don’t think it’s about livery availability I think it’s about more options in vanilla.

 

I'm pretty sure that if ED did that, then people would complain about all the GB that those liveries take .. like thay already do about the F-14 or MiG-21.